Jack's nutrients question

Duder · Apr 12, 2016

Duder said:
I was thinking Of using something similar to whats listed here. I know Multi Zen definitely helped me get Thick trunks. If I can get my base down using what your using and a spin of this. Hopefully I can get the results I am used to. Instead of the small leafy yet really crystally dank nonsense I have been getting lately!

Just to clarify, I was thinking of using this new jacks ratio and Botanicare Vitamino for aminos and pondzyme to hopefully mimic What just Aqua flakes A&B and multizen did for vegg and early flower for me. I didn’t realize how spoiled I became when I had great tap water. Being forced to use RO threw a wrench in my plan to fully focus on environment manipulation and data logging with Micro controllers, LEDs(along with the good ole HPS) and a good low cost Nutrient regimen.. Ahh well, Its about time I learn to use salts.

pugliese63 · Apr 13, 2016

Savage Henry said:
I see how there could be issues with stacking. I've been giving them a foliar 2x a week with either seagreen or straight kelp to avoid this. I'll throw some shots up on my grow log once they start doing their thing if you're interested: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/blueberry-bubblegum-dtw.80825/

@pugliese63 nice looking recipe, any chance you can post its elemental ppms?

Honestly, I don't know the ppms and have never taken the time to learn how to use the nutrient calculator (which I should).
@dizzlekush is a respected grower and I simply followed his advice.
I've been very pleased with the results.

pugliese63 · Apr 13, 2016

Duder said:
Ammonium Sulfate ordered!

Hydrolized whey protein powder? Ummm, Like the stuff I use when I go to the gym(or pretend to,ha!)

I was thinking Of using something similar to whats listed here. I know Multi Zen definitely helped me get Thick trunks. If I can get my base down using what your using and a spin of this. Hopefully I can get the results I am used to. Instead of the small leafy yet really crystally dank nonsense I have been getting lately!

The ammonium sulfate takes the place of the Epsom salts that some use with Jack's. It's the sulphur during the first three weeks that helps establish strong flower sets.
Be sure to to get a very high quality ammonium sulfate. There are various grades, a lot made for general broadcasting on turf like golf courses.
Hydrolized whey just like you use for exercise. One note, if your reservoir has tendency to get above 70 degrees it can start to smell. It will also raise the pH some. It's best to mix what you'll use in one day.
I definitely have seen a difference since I've started using it. It's also very cost effective compared to other amino acid supplements.
With that said, I'm looking into getting an amino acid powder from BuildASoil that is plant based and hopefully not as perishable once it's mixed.
Amino acids are great bloom boosters. There are a lot good supplements available from numerous companies.
I moved away from liquids when ever possible and try to get everything in dry form. It's strictly personal for my own convenience.
One other item I forgot to list in my formula is fulvic acid. I use a dry version from custom hydroponics at 1 gram per gallon and it definetly makes a difference. Fulvic acid along with amino acids are great chelators that aid in nutrient uptake.

GR33NL3AF · Apr 13, 2016

Savage Henry said:
I don't believe they aid in the swell, though I don't believe they hurt. I read some anecdotal evidence pointing at naturally occurring pgrs in kelp helping with stacking.

Edit: when I refer to stacking I mean keeping internodal spacing close during stretch.

Kelp definitely tightens inter-nodal spacing because of it's natural PGR's, it also aids in inducing flower faster. It's a great alternative to Paclo products!

Duder · Apr 14, 2016

I was hoping the Vitamino would have been a good addition with my Tm-7 and pondzyme for a MultiZen replacement. It looks like its different packaging than what I thought I was getting. It only states being a B1 additive, no more claims of aminos.. WTF.. This is exactly why Im putting myself through the growing pains of learning to use salts. Fuck the snake oil nonsense changing recipes.
Then again my upcoming batch looks ridiculous. My DIY Bigbud definitely had a noticeable effect but its all Foxtails. I'm super pissed. This is going to be a nightmare trying to trim. Although the trics and smell are fantastic. The Yield for the size and overall health of the plants is a joke.. I cant even say there is one full cola between the two. Lots of bud sites for 6'x4' plants but the biggest bud is miiiight be the size of a D battery. There is still white hairs reaching, so hopefully there’s more growth.. Even if its foxtails.. Anyone have suggestions? Blast em with MKP? I do have some weight gainer I can dump in there.. At this point Ill consider pissing in the rezz... Ughhhhhh

I am going to have to do some more reading obviously but I noticed the very top growth isnt any bigger then the middle for example. I have lighting on the tops and completely surrounding..
I am in no way Dissing Jacks or the 3-2-1.. I know this is my fault.. This has been quite the humbling experience though to say the least..

Duder · Apr 29, 2016

@pugliese63 , Is this just for bloom or also veg? So far im liking what I see. PH balances out nicely.
Thanks!

Duder · Jun 12, 2016

Thanks for this recipe! I just wanted to report back that since using this the growth has been crazy explosive. Ladies Doubled in size in bloom munching 200ppm(500 scale) and at least 5 gallons of water a day(40 gallon system, RDWC,3 totes, 2 ladies). I had to strip what looked like 4 other plants from the two massive trees to keep light penetration optimal. I had a couple problems with a strain that is particularly finicky with mag/cal amounts but I got a better grip on things. I started journalling everything and using the premix nute calculator. The 1:1 of Jacks and Calnit plus the ammonium nitrogen really kicked everything off. I'm not keeping the formula the same in heavy bloom, that would be boring, so I got the numbers plugged into the calculator for my old aqua flakes, bigbud, MOAB then hammerhead/MOAB combo and Im tweeking the formula from week to week with various other salts. Things are bulking up nicely!! My water temps are hovering around 70-72 so im a little nervous about adding the weight gainer in the mix.
Any suggestions on L-Amino’s that are rez friendly or anything else to help bulk up/harden flowers?
Thanks!

Savage Henry · Jul 28, 2016

@pugliese63 how did the aminos (whey protein) work out for you?

babache · Nov 10, 2017

pugliese63 said:
Here's the formula I run and love it. It was given to me by a very good grower who doesn't post a lot these days, @dizzlekush. He pointed out that the 3-2-1 is not bad formula just not optimized.

Per gallon:
2.5. grams Jack's Hydro
2.5 grams Cal nitrate
.25 grams potassium silicate
.25 grams ammonium sulfate
or
.25 grams ammonium phosphate ACS Diabasic

This is the base formula he gave me. The ammonium sulfate the first three weeks. Around day 21 switch to the ammonium phosphate.

I supplement this formula with:
1 gram powdered fulvic acid
.25 grams Sea 90 (amazing spectrum of over 90 trace elements and micronutrients)
.25 grams Hydrolized whey protein powder (for amino acids)
3 ml bio weed kelp

The Hydrolized whey will definitely make a difference in flower size. Amino acids are very effective bloom boosters.

The great thing about Jack's is you can customize your formulation. This is just the formula I use. I have read in this thread other growers using various ratios with very good results.

On another note here's a link to a product I'm considering using in the near future. It's has Phosphite which seems to be getting some interests these days. The explanation on the difference in phosphorus and phosphite is very interesting. I'll report my experience with it in the near future.

https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...cPath=36_340&zenid=c5t4358r619j2dhuqcu4p4vhr3

This is a great thread and has a lot of salient info. Nice to see it still thriving.

Hi I have a question for you regarding the formula on ammonium phosphate vs mono ammonium phosphate.
In CHN website, they only have the mono ammonium phosphate. I am wondering you are using the ammonium phosphate or mono ammonium phosphate?

thanks

NotaRasta · Apr 12, 2018

splakdawg said:
Yea I'm running the 3-2-1
It just seems that I'm not getting the trichs coverage I'm use to.

I know this is an old thread but im running jacks now. Did you ever get trichome coverage like you were used to? I finished my first run and noticed the very same thing.

sixstring · Apr 12, 2018

I jacked the shit out of all these except the last pic,that ones organic soil :cool:

sixstring · Apr 12, 2018

Disclaimer...not 321 :shockedninja:

NotaRasta · Apr 12, 2018

sixstring said:
Disclaimer...not 321 :shockedninja:

I dont run 321 either. I got nice weight but not frosty like yours.

DGP · Apr 29, 2018

I am currently using 3-2-1 all the way thru but I am questioning this. I have seen many folks say they don't change the nute balance in flower but shouldn't P and K be increased in the flower phase?

Thanks,

Dee

plumsmooth · Nov 4, 2020

Anyone using this Variation on the 3-2-1 that's including the Ammonium Sulphate? Anyone do the numbers this? I feel like like my Jacks RDWC is missing something once I get into the second month of Veg with my 2 month Vegged plants. Overall they look paler than they should. Might even be total PPM being low. I only change my Reservoirs once a week and still haven't quite nailed the Top-ups. I can not figure out what my target PPM is when I top up because.... I start to get a Build up of PPM and get nervous about adding back too much Nutrient. It seems clear the formula is not used evenly across the spectrum of Nutrients. However what is left behind clearly doesn't burn as I end up easily sometimes at 1500n on a low rez right before change out.

BillFarthing · Nov 4, 2020

plumsmooth said:
Anyone using this Variation on the 3-2-1 that's including the Ammonium Sulphate? Anyone do the numbers this? I feel like like my Jacks RDWC is missing something once I get into the second month of Veg with my 2 month Vegged plants. Overall they look paler than they should. Might even be total PPM being low. I only change my Reservoirs once a week and still haven't quite nailed the Top-ups. I can not figure out what my target PPM is when I top up because.... I start to get a Build up of PPM and get nervous about adding back too much Nutrient. It seems clear the formula is not used evenly across the spectrum of Nutrients. However what is left behind clearly doesn't burn as I end up easily sometimes at 1500n on a low rez right before change out.

No need to add AMS. Jack's is good as-is. Just get the ppm dialed in.

Add back reservoir is usually half strength nutrient solution.

plumsmooth · Nov 12, 2020

Personally I found when I went full 3-2-1 I saw Calcium issue which led me to believe TOO much Mg.
I premix my Jacks and wondered if that helps the Mg be more easily available in that the 3-2-1 powdered might be partially because dry Epsom Salt is hard to dissolve? So I still can't figure out how much Mg. For a while I was just 3-2-1-ing on the Reservoir Change. And then I tried 3-2-.5. And I am still not sure?

BillFarthing · Nov 12, 2020

The numbers on 3/2 (no epsom) work perfectly for me.

plumsmooth · Nov 12, 2020

That's interesting, I posted a Survey thread on Cannabis Culture once and more people than not came back with that answer too: Jack's has enough Mg!
Since my deficiency is I suppose mild it is hard for me to pin point. It is more of an overall chlorosis. However I still occasionally get one I haven't figured out which usually happens in cooler temperatures. It is a purplish stem starting midway in the plant with a paired Chlorosis. I think that might be the beginnings of Phosphorus lock out.

The weird thing for me right now is one of my larger plants in its last 2 weeks of Veg I switched it to Gh 3 part with 3-2-1 grow micro bloom and it looks great right now. This leads me to believe that I might need more N in my mix? Or I wondered if it is the Kind of N that GH might have that my plant is digging?

cottageman · Nov 12, 2020

For anyone questioning if you have enough ppm’s of a certain nutrient https://manicbotanix.com/calculators/ppm-in-solution-calc.php
This is a ppm nutrient calculator, it will tell you to the ppm what is in your fertilizers. I used this when switching from heavy16 to jacks since I was having problems with heavy. I use Athena ag now only because my local hydro store carries it and not jacks and I like supporting the hydro store, plus they’re almost the same exact nutrient ratios. Jacks gave me the best results in both yield and quality to date. Also idk why but power si bloom has 100% increased the stacking and internode spacing in flower.
that nutrient calculator has helped out so much in guiding what nutrients I want to use. Base ppms that seem to work well for cannabis for me: Nitrogen around 120ppms
Calcium around 90-115 ppms
Phosphorus 60-100ppms
Mg 40-90ppms
Sulfur 80-115 ppms

Jack's nutrients question

Jack's nutrients question

Duder

pugliese63

pugliese63

GR33NL3AF

Duder

Duder

Duder

Savage Henry

babache

NotaRasta

sixstring

sixstring

NotaRasta

DGP

plumsmooth

BillFarthing

plumsmooth

BillFarthing

plumsmooth

cottageman

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