Jacks Vs Hydroponic Research

PhatNuggz · Mar 18, 2016

GR33NL3AF said:
I am right in the middle of this decision myself.

I will be running Jack's & Ful-Power in my Rockwool setup this round and V+B in another Rockwool room. We shall see..

I haven't done the cost analysis yet, but when purchasing Jack's in bulk I highly doubt V+B could come close.

HR is available in bulk too

PhatNuggz · Mar 18, 2016

4 years ago I did a side by side using HR RO (hydro) vs Dutch Master Gold full line (PITA to mix all those bottles) the HR blew it away. HR has since gotten more complete, including fulvic

with HR I need very little- < 300ppm for veg and < 500 for flower. In the past I would bump to ~ 800 for ~ 7 days at the onset of buds, but it's more in my head. I am revegging a mongrel plant. Buds are developing at < 400ppm

GR33NL3AF · Mar 21, 2016

PhatNuggz said:
HR is available in bulk too

The bulk pricing offered is pretty good and there really is no way for me to do a complete cost analysis, because I don't know exactly what is in V+B.

Can anyone comment on V+B with irrigation? I know it works, but any pointers or issues that anyone ran into? Smallest GPH emitter someone has used with the powder? Issues letting it sit in a res for several days? No matter how long I let the powder sit in a res before hand watering it always seemed to leave a slight sediment and clog up the shower head on my wand.

hermit186 · Mar 26, 2016

One more added expense that is worth its weight in gold and I bought it as junk. The yellow one was bought from a lab supply company. For all people who mix small to medium quantity is wonderful as they stir and heat.
The fact that salts and sugars will dissolve better if you raise the temperature at around 110 F. I usually mix for about 30 min. and never have unsolved particles that I can see am 67 and might miss some but not much. I felt it was over kill and after a month bought the second one for $145. The first one still in the foam was from a school sale $25 was a steal.

fishwhistle · Mar 27, 2016

GR33NL3AF said:
The bulk pricing offered is pretty good and there really is no way for me to do a complete cost analysis, because I don't know exactly what is in V+B.

Can anyone comment on V+B with irrigation? I know it works, but any pointers or issues that anyone ran into? Smallest GPH emitter someone has used with the powder? Issues letting it sit in a res for several days? No matter how long I let the powder sit in a res before hand watering it always seemed to leave a slight sediment and clog up the shower head on my wand.

I have not figured out a way to lose the sediment,i think its a carrier of some sort.I read that HR was working on an injectable for auto systems,I think @We Solidarity might have some insight or be testing.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/dosatrons-and-powder-based-nutes-aka-veg-bloom.80752/

PhatNuggz · Mar 28, 2016

I use an electric hand mixer. Also, first I structure my water (do a search for structured water), then add the nutes to ~ 2.5g. I used to have some clumping, but not in a long time. It could be the structured water (see my DIY in my Hail Hydro thread), or that I no longer mix > 600ppm, or maybe HR has done something

We Solidarity · Mar 28, 2016

i start agitating my water with a drill and paint stirrer prior to adding veg bloom, then add slowly. i keep it agitated for 15-20 mins after mixing with an air pump, then feed. It's good in rezzies for 5-6 days with a diaphragm pump to agitate; keeping airstones in there for longer than 25hrs causes fallout and some gunk to form up.

Should also be noted that water under 65 degrees may have trouble dissolving the mix; I add warm water to my rez if it's under 60 degrees.

GR33NL3AF · Mar 28, 2016

We Solidarity said:
i start agitating my water with a drill and paint stirrer prior to adding veg bloom, then add slowly. i keep it agitated for 15-20 mins after mixing with an air pump, then feed. It's good in rezzies for 5-6 days with a diaphragm pump to agitate; keeping airstones in there for longer than 25hrs causes fallout and some gunk to form up.

Should also be noted that water under 65 degrees may have trouble dissolving the mix; I add warm water to my rez if it's under 60 degrees.

Water temps have been a pain in the ass at my new spot. It can come in at 59F sometimes, I don't trust tank heaters yet so I run Little Giant's until it gets into range. What a headache.

I'll try this technique for mixing, thanks.

cemchris · Mar 28, 2016

fishwhistle said:
I have not figured out a way to lose the sediment,i think its a carrier of some sort.I read that HR was working on an injectable for auto systems,I think @We Solidarity might have some insight or be testing.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/dosatrons-and-powder-based-nutes-aka-veg-bloom.80752/

I think they said it's some kind of clay. No harm.

All9 · Mar 30, 2016

We Solidarity said:
i start agitating my water with a drill and paint stirrer prior to adding veg bloom, then add slowly. i keep it agitated for 15-20 mins after mixing with an air pump, then feed. It's good in rezzies for 5-6 days with a diaphragm pump to agitate; keeping airstones in there for longer than 25hrs causes fallout and some gunk to form up.

Should also be noted that water under 65 degrees may have trouble dissolving the mix; I add warm water to my rez if it's under 60 degrees.

Nice ;)

We Solidarity · Mar 30, 2016

GR33NL3AF said:
Water temps have been a pain in the ass at my new spot. It can come in at 59F sometimes, I don't trust tank heaters yet so I run Little Giant's until it gets into range. What a headache.

I'll try this technique for mixing, thanks.

hell yeah. I've also done the same thing, just running a sump pump in the res to mix it. That's only when the rez is 400+ gallons and the paint mixer won't get'er done. I've electrocuted the shit out of myself with a 1200 watt aquarium heater, I feel bad for anyone who's used that model in their fish tank. Leaving the pump on helps for sure, if you can reduce the flow on the pump it has to work a little harder and heats up quicker.

Funkadelic · Mar 30, 2016

Great great GREAT fng suggestions in here. Outstanding.

I run a rez with a 24/7 pump to circulate and oxygenate. I use +Life and Mammoth Microbes, and use a short cycle timer for numerous short feedings (thanks Smokey503ski, seriously).

The constant aeration and mixing are important in my standing open rez.

Funkadelic · Mar 30, 2016

I *think* v+b is now micronized for easier absorption?

Using the needed amount with the beaker and heating element / agitiation to form a liquid which is then added to the rez is brilliant. Really love that idea.

Never occurred to me. I bet even a blender could accomplish good results too ....

Savage Henry · Jul 1, 2016

So it's been a few months and, figured I'd chime in. I did 3 runs with the jacks and hit a personal best yield-wise. But it wasn't easy, for some reason that formula sticks to coco like glue, I had to constantly be on top of monitoring my feed and runoff ec. Not to mention the taste of the finished product left something to be desired.

Started running the v+b HD in flower about a week ago and it's like night and day. After flushing out my pots with the jacks formula diluted to 0.5ec until the runoff equalized I started with 4g/gal of the HD to be safe, few days later bumped it up to 5 and it looks like my next Rez chance I'll do 6, pretty impressive. The growth rates are awesome, even on this relatively slow strain I'm working with. I'm having to adjust the timer for my pump daily to keep up with the needs of the room while maintaining around 15% runoff.

Reminds me of when I used to run canna.

I still have like 10lbs of jacks left, probably use it for veg.

Anyway, thanks for the input everyone.

On a side note, @Funkadelic are you referencing mammoth p above? If so how's it working out for you?

PhatNuggz · Jul 2, 2016

Although I have used V + B ++ +SIZE rather successfully for 4 years, it finally started gnawing on me that our girls really want a more bloom friendly formula during flower

I came across NPK University YT videos. They sell dry salts to mix your own. My hydro store carries some of them. When I dropped in to purchase, it turned out that the President of Emerald Harvest Nutes was there. I explained to him why I don't like paying for water (I use RO + structure it for max bio-availability). Turns out they have a huge vortexing machine that they mix in- SWEET. I left with 2 part Bloom and later got a starter kit of 3 part ~$49.50 bargain.

One plant is drying now, but she got a couple weeks of HR during early flower. 5 more plants with ~ 3 weeks to go that got EH Bloom from first pistils

Drop by my threads to see the finish

Savage Henry · Jul 26, 2016

GR33NL3AF said:
Smallest GPH emitter someone has used with the powder?

My 1/2 gph emitters clogged so I installed an in-line 155 micron screen filter, which clogged daily.
Removed the filter and switched out the 1/2gph emitters for 2gph ones and haven't seen any issues so far.

kbellfoy · Jul 27, 2016

ocgreens said:
I have been using Jacks for half a year now with great results. I pay $86 for a 25 lb pound bag of jacks and $73 for a 50 lb bag of Calcium Nitrate from customhydronutrients.com. A total of $159 which includes shipping. A 25 lb bag of veg+bloom is $485 including tax.

I've seen a lot of recipes for Jacks and have used a few them and the best results I have seen is by using their recommended amounts written on the bag. I fill my rez to 50 gall and add 185 grams of Jacks and 125 grams of Calcium Nitrate, I do not add anything else. This comes out to 3.7 g/per gal of jacks and 2.5 g/per gal of calcium nitrate. I can give the ppms of N-P-K CA MG and S if anyone wants them. My final E.C is usually 1.6. Another thing I like is i can adjust the ppms of any nutrient very easily by adding more or less of Jacks or Calcium Nitrate. I grow in straight coco and I feed my plants this mix from rooted clone till flush with out any problems.

Attached pics are an Alien Rift mother and Grape Og at day 48 both fed this same mix.

They look amazing. I'm trying my first hydro (I'm soil grower) These just look so good. Hmmmmmm now I wish I hadn't bought my nutes at same time as my kit.

hermit186 · Jul 27, 2016

kbellfoy said:
They look amazing. I'm trying my first hydro (I'm soil grower) These just look so good. Hmmmmmm now I wish I hadn't bought my nutes at same time as my kit.

If you decide to switch to jack which I highly recommend.
Save them, there are strains you may grow in the future that Jacks is second and I use canna for them. If you never intend to do some of the medical strains that are hard to grow and require different nutrient ratios, then use them up. Don't switch in bloom but in veg I switched more than one grow, I have help with, over to jacks at 50% for 5 days don't flush in coco unless you have made mistake.
Flush coco by cutting nutrients to in my case 25% for one day in my case I can see them reaching and 50% then full strength. I do it twice during veg and once the second week of bloom. That is when I switch mixtures to my bloom mix. Is same as veg and is very close to 3-2-1 but in bloom I use moab and backstrap and jacks a 40% some say 50% but it will burn the tips of the leaves. Choose your media if coco is it. Think: you use coco because is a fluffy mixture that the water passes thru why would you start with a brick get a bag of good stuff.
Capulator has switch me to drip to drain with his posts and is great. The reciruation blues are not for me I use about 8 to 10 gallons a day and send it to my garden and fruit trees.

kbellfoy · Jul 28, 2016

hermit186 said:
If you decide to switch to jack which I highly recommend.
Save them, there are strains you may grow in the future that Jacks is second and I use canna for them. If you never intend to do some of the medical strains that are hard to grow and require different nutrient ratios, then use them up. Don't switch in bloom but in veg I switched more than one grow, I have help with, over to jacks at 50% for 5 days don't flush in coco unless you have made mistake.
Flush coco by cutting nutrients to in my case 25% for one day in my case I can see them reaching and 50% then full strength. I do it twice during veg and once the second week of bloom. That is when I switch mixtures to my bloom mix. Is same as veg and is very close to 3-2-1 but in bloom I use moab and backstrap and jacks a 40% some say 50% but it will burn the tips of the leaves. Choose your media if coco is it. Think: you use coco because is a fluffy mixture that the water passes thru why would you start with a brick get a bag of good stuff.
Capulator has switch me to drip to drain with his posts and is great. The reciruation blues are not for me I use about 8 to 10 gallons a day and send it to my garden and fruit trees.

Iv gone with wilma pots and my media is hydraton drip fed recirculation but I might run it to waste instead. It's much different than soil which I'm used to. This first run is gonna be crappy seeds till I find my way. Jacks is deffo being bought for next run. I'm using the canna aqua range of nutes with canazym and the pk boost for flower with the 2 part that goes with it. I got a bluelab for my EC and my ph pen from soil growing. I'm getting a chiller and a bluelab guardian. They are only about £230 to buy so well worth it for the guardian. So let's hope I can do this or its back to soil lol. Other choice I have to make is sterile system or organic's. I was given a full set of atami orgasnic food for hydro off my guy at the hydro store. So I can do either if I choose.

fido · Aug 5, 2016

Smokey503ski said:
I run it at 6 grams per gallon.
5 grams for veg.

PM me if anyone needs a discount on ordering Hydroponic Research nutrients.

sending a pm your way re: the v+b

Jacks Vs Hydroponic Research

Jacks Vs Hydroponic Research

PhatNuggz

PhatNuggz

GR33NL3AF

hermit186

fishwhistle

PhatNuggz

We Solidarity

GR33NL3AF

cemchris

All9

We Solidarity

Funkadelic

Funkadelic

Savage Henry

PhatNuggz

Savage Henry

kbellfoy

hermit186

kbellfoy

fido

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