Killing Microbial Life

leadsled · Apr 14, 2011

Starting to learn to identify the microbial life in compost and aact.

Was taking part in some tests and wanted to share the results. If anyone else has done any testing. Please do share.

Here is the basics of the test. View the aact under a microscope, then add product to the aact. Then view the results.

Brewed aact and viewed under a scope. Teaming with life. protists, fungi, bacteria to name a few.

Added coco wet organic wetting agent. 1/4 tsp per gallon. Placed sample under scope.

Dead.

I have read some soap are supposed to wash off bacteria. Looks like cocowet really does the job. :)

Hope that helps someone going blind with aact, or maybe using coco wet as a wetting agent.

-Lead

mrbong73 · Apr 14, 2011

Nice leadsled!
Thanks for the post. It really is going blind without having a microscope. That's why I tend to stay with the recipes, techniques etc recommended by the guys with the scopes. Makes sense right?
Have you looked at the microbeorganics website? He sells a dvd that helps ID the critters.
Let us know what other experiments you do.

mrb

leadsled · Apr 14, 2011

mrbong73 said:
Nice leadsled!
Thanks for the post. It really is going blind without having a microscope. That's why I tend to stay with the recipes, techniques etc recommended by the guys with the scopes. Makes sense right?
Have you looked at the microbeorganics website? He sells a dvd that helps ID the critters.
Let us know what other experiments you do.

mrb

Welcome glad you liked it. exciting to verify/confirm that the compost and aact is alive.

Yes I have seen microbeorganics, excellent site I appreciate.

I am tagging along and learning from an expert, so wanted to share what I have learned so far.

experiment #2 calcarb.

Calcium carbonate also kills. Tested out calcarb by xtreme gardening. xtreme recommended to alternate aact and calcarb weekly if using there calcarb product along with aact foliars.

will share as I learn em. please ask if you have any ideas for tests.

excited about testing the teas/recipes I been brewing blind.

-lead

alstotter · Apr 14, 2011

Sub'd great idea, I've always wondered in my head which products were working against me, I'll keep tuned for sure!

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

leadsled

The professional organic soil(less) products from Sun Gro Horticulture (Sunshine Mixes, etc.) use yucca extract as a wetting agent in their organic products. Yucca extracts can be either from the leaves or yucca root extract which is generally sold as a powder.

The problem with using 'soap' (per se) as a wetting agent (or as a surfactant) is that almost all them are labled 'anti-bacterial' which isn't too good if you're trying to grow out bacteria and related friends. What the soap is providing is foaming action that is a result of the addition of saponins.

Yucca extract(s) and aloe vera extract are high in saponins as is alfalfa (as a tea). If you go with either the yucca or aloe make sure that you're getting products that do not contain preservatives as this is counter productive.

RE: Calcium Carbonate

Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) cannot not and does not kill any microbes. You're using a 'liquid' Calcium product and it is a physical impossibility to liquify Calcium without the use of a chemical agent and generally in grow store 'cal mag' products (like Botanicare Cal-Mag product) are manufactured using Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA).

That's what is killing your microbe herds. There are very easy ways to extract Calcium from Calcium Carbonate sources with resorting to using EDTA.

HTH

UP

The Joker · Apr 14, 2011

Calcium Carbonate is also known as lime which is naturally anti microbial. Lime plaster walls ( calcium carbonate) do not get moldy. If he put lime in...sure , that kills anything.
So how about the effects of adding lime to the soil to buffer?

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

The Joker said:
Calcium Carbonate is also known as lime which is naturally anti microbial. Lime plaster walls ( calcium carbonate) do not get moldy. If he put lime in...sure , that kills anything.

So how about the effects of adding lime to the soil to buffer?

Calcium Carbonate is a mineral compound found in limestone, calcite lime, oyster shell powder, egg shells. Calcium is one of the most important minerals for plant health. Some argue that it's THE most important mineral for both plant and animal health.

Lime Plaster is not Calcium Carbonate - it's hydrated lime mixed with sand and water.

Once again Calcium Carbonate = 1 elemental Calcium atom, 1 carbon atom and 3 oxygen atoms. That's it.

UP

Shredder · Apr 14, 2011

Leadsled, do you have any dr bronners soap to try? I've been under the assumption it was fine, but without looking, I could very well be wrong....shredder

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

Shredder said:
Leadsled, do you have any dr bronners soap to try? I've been under the assumption it was fine, but without looking, I could very well be wrong....shredder

Shredder

Dr. Bronners has some good products to consider - the main one being their castile soap as this is a 'soap' with out perfume agents or anything else, i.e. it's as 'pure' as you will find.

A good alternative if one is going to use a liquid soap as a wetting agent/surfactant, IMHO

HTH

UP

Shredder · Apr 14, 2011

Great to know. I got a deal on two cases of it (8 gallons, peppermint) about 7 years ago, and still have 3 gallons left. I have been using it for an emulsifier for the past several years, because I knew it was not an anti-bacterial, but I never read about anyone checking it under a scope.

It was great to use in my backpacking days, hair, body, clothes, soap. I stopped at toothpaste myself, yek.......shredder

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

Shredder

You're good with the 'peppermint' component. Mints, in general, are a very effective fungicide and insecticide component. As a matter of fact I include 'mints' (oregano, marjoram, basil, peppermint, et al.) in the fungicide and insecticide that I brew up for fighting 'M&M' here in Oregon - mites and mildew.

Peace

UP

The Joker · Apr 14, 2011

Udyana Peace said:
Calcium Carbonate is a mineral compound found in limestone, calcite lime, oyster shell powder, egg shells. Calcium is one of the most important minerals for plant health. Some argue that it's THE most important mineral for both plant and animal health.

Lime Plaster is not Calcium Carbonate - it's hydrated lime mixed with sand and water.

Once again Calcium Carbonate = 1 elemental Calcium atom, 1 carbon atom and 3 oxygen atoms. That's it.

UP

I worked in Italy with a guy who made lime products. When we wanted to make an underlayment for the floor, he used Calcium Carbonate to thicken the base. He said that's also what he used as the basis for his high quality plasters. Calce in italian is lime. Cal in spanish. Italians typically lie about the ingredients they use in artisan finishes. Perhaps he was lying about the Calce as well. Grassello di Calce, is a high quality lime plaster which is made of high quality lime mixed with fine marble aggregate. Slaked lime can be made from burned marble.

Again. Lime plasters are naturally anti microbial which is why they are so popular in the green building industry. What is the effect on microbial life of adding lime to the soil?

primeform · Apr 14, 2011

so yucca extract is still good to go with teas right?

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

Shredder

The 'emulsifier' that I use and recommend is liquid silica (like Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt). This is especially effective to emulsify both neem as well as karanja oils.

HTH

UP

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

primeform said:
so yucca extract is still good to go with teas right?

Absolutely - in fact in the book "Teaming With Microbes" both aloe vera extract and yucca extract are recommend, specifically, as the best agents for growing out the fungi hyphae.

There a slew of reasons to use both/either aloe vera and yucca extracts with their saponin content being at the bottom of any list that I could come up with.

HTH

UP

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

The Joker said:
I worked in Italy with a guy who made lime products. When we wanted

Again. Lime plasters are naturally anti microbial which is why they are so popular in the green building industry. What is the effect on microbial life of adding lime to the soil?

You're mixing up any number of 'terms' and 'agents' so it's virtually impossible (no pun intended) to address any of your queries.

Slack lime (hydrated lime) is not elemental Calcium or Calcium Carbonate or even your term, i.e. 'Lime Plaster"

I know and understand that in the world of growing 'pot' these terms have little, if any meaning. But in the 'real world' of chemistry, biology, botany, reality, etc. these terms do, in fact, have specific meanings.

HTH

UP

P.S. - look up the terms you're using as that will prove very helpful.

CAPO · Apr 14, 2011

interesting, according to wikipedia...

"The vast majority of calcium carbonate used in industry is extracted by mining or quarrying. Pure calcium carbonate (e.g. for food or pharmaceutical use), can be produced from a pure quarried source (usually marble)."

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

CAPO said:
interesting, according to wikipedia...

"The vast majority of calcium carbonate used in industry is extracted by mining or quarrying. Pure calcium carbonate (e.g. for food or pharmaceutical use), can be produced from a pure quarried source (usually marble)."

CAPO

Absolutely correct.

Calcium Carbonate (once again CaCO3) is a specific compound (i.e. more than one element linked together) which is found in Limestone, Calcite Lime, Oyster Shell Powder (another minded form of Calcium Carbonate) and of course egg shells.

Then again the best/primary source of 'calcium carbonate' (specifically) is earthworm castings.

I'm always amused when 'egg shells' are recommended as a 'calcium' source in that chickens cannot manufacture 'calcium' - ever. Even in the pot growing world.

So which came first? Mined calcium or the egg shell?

Heh

UP

Shredder · Apr 14, 2011

Udyana Peace said:
Shredder

You're good with the 'peppermint' component. Mints, in general, are a very effective fungicide and insecticide component. As a matter of fact I include 'mints' (oregano, marjoram, basil, peppermint, et al.) in the fungicide and insecticide that I brew up for fighting 'M&M' here in Oregon - mites and mildew.

Peace

UP

Could you post a recipe? I also grow basil, oregano, lavender ( I've made the fpe), parsley, rosemary in our sunroom. Must be something from all that I could brew up.......shredder

Udyana Peace · Apr 14, 2011

Shredder said:
Could you post a recipe?

Sure - why not?

To make 4 gallons of a mixture that you would want to use 1/4 cup (2 oz) to 1 gallon of water. That's an important number as things progress.

1 lb. of organic rosemary branches and remove the individual leaves from the branches. This is an important step.

Take the rosemary leaves and put into a food processor with an equal amount of pure water and puree this mess. Add 2 each habanero chilis, 10 cloves of garlic (leave the skin on) and an equal amount of fresh ginger (very important component)

Once you have this mess pureed place into a 5-gallon paint bucket and fill with 4 gallons of water. Add pureed mint (however you get there) and try to get at least 3 cups of mint puree - go with diversity, IMHO

Add 1 tablespoon of live yogurt (read the label) and any/all of the following at 1/2 teaspoon:

Miso - organic
Vinegar - organic
Mesu - organic
Beer - organic
Kefir - organic

You'll also want to add a carbohydrate source - I prefer and use palm sugar as it's minimally processed. Easily sourced at Southeast Asian markets - especially Vietnamese and Thai markets.

You MUST use organic sources because conventional/transitional forms will always contain preservatives which will arrest this process.

Let this mess/mixture ferment down to < 3.5 pH - lower is even better. Once you hit your acidic numbers strain the plant material from the liquid and toss into your worm bin or compost pile.

With the liquid apply as a foliar spray using 2 oz. (i.e. 1/4 cup) to 1 gallon of water and hit it every 3 days until you have the mites arrested and killed. Follow up with weekly applications of either neem or karanja oil at the prescribed rates.

Result? End of mites, powdery mildew, aphids, white flies, gnats, et al.

HTH

UP

Killing Microbial Life

Killing Microbial Life

leadsled

GrowRU

mrbong73

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alstotter

Udyana Peace

The Joker

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Shredder

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Shredder

Udyana Peace

The Joker

primeform

Udyana Peace

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Udyana Peace

CAPO

Udyana Peace

Shredder

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Killing Microbial Life

Killing Microbial Life

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GrowRU

mrbong73

leadsled

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alstotter

Udyana Peace

The Joker

Udyana Peace

Shredder

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Shredder

Udyana Peace

The Joker

primeform

Udyana Peace

Udyana Peace

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CAPO

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Shredder

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