GhostFace said:

never happen in this life time!! EVER!:bow

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Well if you vote for the SAFER initiative, this IS what will happen. Its in the language of the initiative. You are allowed to keep what ever you grow at your house. No limits.

motherlode said:

its a fucking plant

I should be able to just grow it like sunflowers or tomatoes

if they put restrictions/tax it there will always be a black market for weed

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Dude- can smoking/eating tomatoes drop you to your knees? What do you feel about children coming over and picking your free growing cannabis? Do you mind the 'have nots' coming and helping themselves, to your crop, when 'need be'?

Sadly, with human beings being human, the first step for legalization can NOT be a "free like tomatoes" step. The person who screws this up will really have to do something colossally stupid. And people always screw things up. This screw-up would have the potential to turn-off the rest of the nation on legalization. And thats just wrong - on many levels.

If the system get regulated and there is less potential for people to screw things up... we can get the entire nation to go green. Then after that we can go for the whole "free range tomatoes" approach...

bullshit - once its being taxed and regulated we will never be free from those chains

never

Im so sick of the lets take what they will give us mentality

fuck that

if you hadnt noticed our gov is way better at taking away our rights then giving us more rights later on down the road

the only way to end MJ related crime is to let people grow how much the want where they want - period

again if you create an industry out of a PLANT there will always be a black market - which means they will always find a way to IMPRISON people over pot

if everybody had a few plants in their yard who the fuck would go around stealing it anyway

I smoked pot my first time when I was 9 so I cant really comment on the kid thing - lol

motherlode said:

bullshit - once its being taxed and regulated we will never be free from those chains

if everybody had a few plants in their yard who the fuck would go around stealing it anyway

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please see above. safer's petition allows for HOME GARDENS. You would be able to grow in your backyard.

canaguy27 said:

please see above. safer's petition allows for HOME GARDENS. You would be able to grow in your backyard.

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yeah sorry that was a response to another post which I forgot to quote

JeromeGarcia said:

Fail.

Why would you not want something that will give you the legal protection to have 10's of pounds at your house?

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No, fail on y'all. I still haven't seen anything worth giving up any more rights for to be governed. Where they at? The Safer folks blew off my last round of questions/doubts with a- "Yeah we don't have time to answer, get back to you later." Anything you folks put on the books WILL create more regulation, period. It WILL leave an area of people not in compliance and open to criminal offense. Again, working on dropping the priority of cannabis crimes would be key- ala possession, cultivation, and private adult sales. We don't need full legal, just removal/lowest priority measures- which will in reality be much easier to pass. Instead of creating a whole new system, you could simply lessen the tax burden on the public. But hey that wouldn't leave room for notariety and a supposed "step in the right direction" for parties involved would it?

And if you honestly think anyone will be allowed to grow 10lbs and keep it- not sure what you're smoking.

Anything you folks put on the books WILL create more regulation, period.

I have to agree with this. It is much like the debate over the drafting of the bill of rights. Many people believe the bill of rights is awesome because it protects our rights but it was very controversial because our liberty loving forefathers were scared that what has happened today would happen. They saw listing inalienable rights would limit our freedoms ultimately and that has basically happened.

true grit said:

No, fail on y'all. I still haven't seen anything worth giving up any more rights for to be governed. Where they at? The Safer folks blew off my last round of questions/doubts with a- "Yeah we don't have time to answer, get back to you later." Anything you folks put on the books WILL create more regulation, period. It WILL leave an area of people not in compliance and open to criminal offense. Again, working on dropping the priority of cannabis crimes would be key- ala possession, cultivation, and private adult sales. We don't need full legal, just removal/lowest priority measures- which will in reality be much easier to pass. Instead of creating a whole new system, you could simply lessen the tax burden on the public. But hey that wouldn't leave room for notariety and a supposed "step in the right direction" for parties involved would it?

And if you honestly think anyone will be allowed to grow 10lbs and keep it- not sure what you're smoking.

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Grit, I'm truly sorry I haven't had time to reply to your post from about 3 weeks ago. There is crazy, busy stuff going on right now. Maybe nows the time for you to get back in the game... ?

This initiative WILL create more regulation... that's going to happen with any initiative passed in Colorado. In fact, this initiative mandate the legislators to create an industrial hemp business model/regulatory structure.

And it IS true that you can keep an unlimited amount at your house, if that is where the cannabis was grown.

(b) POSSESSING, GROWING, PROCESSING, OR TRANSPORTING NO MORE THAN SIX MARIJUANA PLANTS, WITH THREE OR FEWER BEING MATURE, FLOWERING PLANTS, AND POSSESSION OF THE MARIJUANA PRODUCED BY THE PLANTS ON THE PREMISES WHERE THE PLANTS WERE GROWN, PROVIDED THAT THE GROWING TAKES PLACE IN AN ENCLOSED, LOCKED SPACE, IS NOT CONDUCTED OPENLY OR PUBLICLY, AND IS NOT MADE AVAILABLE FOR SALE.

So eventually, after many years there is no reason why one could not have 10's of pounds of cannabis at their house...

This initiative also helps mmj people out because for two major reasons.
1. It frees them from the expense paid out every year for a Dr. recommendation and BOH registration.
2. It allows them to keep more than 2 oz, at home, if the grow it themselves.

I'd love to go deeper into this, but really, I have a TON of work to do today.

Can you put your concerns in bullet point fashion, so that we can address them more efficiently with what little resources we have?

Here is a new one that is having a public hearing at the Capitol

http://www.cannabisuniversityinc.com/blog/archives/503

Basically it says that any court can not fine you or sentence you for possession of cannabis. That's it. Simple, to the point, I like it.

Sensi- Thanks for getting back to me, and sorry for the confusion of who I was addressing.

My issues with this:
- You are not protecting adults beyond anything that medical patients have (which is not suffice)

- Even with patients complaining from the get go that numbers are not suffice, those issues have been overlooked for a larger "agenda". Why not address the problems at hand first before opening a new can of worms?

- You are not attempting to protect the rights of private sales/trades amongst adults. And since that is inevitable, you are now creating a new class of criminal to prosecute/new reason for LEO to investivage/ ie more tax dollars expended.

- The 10lb comment is obviously an exaggeration to bring in more support/attention. It is not likely or probable.

- MMJ patients nationwide are still subject to harassment for plants in their locked domiciles and more specifically backyards (even when legal and allowed), what makes you think LEO would not cut corners there?

- Simply put: What is wrong with lowest priority measures? I come from states/counties where that is the only logical and plausible way to go- and it is very possible with effort. Why isn't effort put into making the criminal not worth the chase, instead of attempting to create a whole new regulatory system- that will cost more tax $$, while determining a new criminal? ie. Oakland. Adults use, sales, cultivation is of no major concern to LEO.

- If you are concerned about eliminating the need to prevent mmj patients from having fees or registration, why not work on protecting the current rights of MMJ patients with the registry/fees/etc? Legalization is a leap (and scary word to the public), that you would be working for while MMJ patients are still suffering the crap that is in place now. I don't feel I should have to register- so now I should jsut wait until legalization someday? I would like a group who actually cares to step to the plate for the current needs.

- Other states are amending their med laws, or attempting to, in order to remove the requirement of registration with the state... that is a serious concern, and perhaps something that should be addressed first for the people with a constitutional right to their medicine.

- I still feel this is a notoriety issue or groups like yourself would be grinding to help patients in the current situation we are in, before moving on to the next one.

- What makes anyone think that there wouldn't be stringent zoning laws as to where individuals can grow? Or HOA limitations? Or code to follow? It is already happening now, and with one incident could lead to all new task force of enforcement or fines associated with code spec.

thanks again for getting back to me, these are a few of my concerns.

BOLD is reply. This reply is not from me, but another SensiCo employee. So...

My issues with this:
- You are not protecting adults beyond anything that medical patients have (which is not suffice). Actually the initiative provides extra protection in addition to A20 because it permits a person to possess all the marijuana he can grow on his six plants. Thus, it fixes the harvest problem where a patient finds himself with more than two ounces because he is too good of a grower. In addition, patient with red cards will be able to grow double the amount of plants ( 6 under Amendment 20 and 6 under our initiative, for a grand total of 12).

- Even with patients complaining from the get go that numbers are not suffice, those issues have been overlooked for a larger "agenda". Why not address the problems at hand first before opening a new can of worms? The only larger agenda we have is to legalize marijuana for all adults.

- You are not attempting to protect the rights of private sales/trades amongst adults. And since that is inevitable, you are now creating a new class of criminal to prosecute/new reason for LEO to investivage/ ie more tax dollars expended. We are not creating a “new class of criminals” this class already exists. Private sales/trade happens every day. All we are doing is making it legal for EVERY adult to possess limited amounts of marijuana – not changing any other laws or making any new crimes.

- The 10lb comment is obviously an exaggeration to bring in more support/attention. It is not likely or probable. It’s actually true – you can possess forever however much you can continuously grow on six plants.

- MMJ patients nationwide are still subject to harassment for plants in their locked domiciles and more specifically backyards (even when legal and allowed), what makes you think LEO would not cut corners there? Right now, only patients can possess marijuana which is one of the reasons they are harassed because law enforcement believes they are the people to blame for illegal marijuana in our society. Once every adult can possess marijuana, law enforcement’s hand will be tied. They won’t be able to question a patient’s status because everyone can possess it. Patient won’t be this discriminated group of people for using marijuana because everyone will be able to use it. In addition, patient will also have two laws that protect them for LEO – not just one.

- Simply put: What is wrong with lowest priority measures? I come from states/counties where that is the only logical and plausible way to go- and it is very possible with effort. Why isn't effort put into making the criminal not worth the chase, instead of attempting to create a whole new regulatory system- that will cost more tax $$, while determining a new criminal? ie. Oakland. Adults use, sales, cultivation is of no major concern to LEO. We passed the lowest priority measure in Denver, and the cops did not listen to us.

- If you are concerned about eliminating the need to prevent mmj patients from having fees or registration, why not work on protecting the current rights of MMJ patients with the registry/fees/etc? We have been and we are. In the past, we have sued the state, testified in front of the board of health, petitioned to add new debilitating conditions. In fact, we have asked the CDPHE to lower the fee hundreds of times. Thankfully, right now they have plans to lower the fee to $35. Legalization is a leap (and scary word to the public), that you would be working for while MMJ patients are still suffering the crap that is in place now. I don't feel I should have to register- so now I should jsut wait until legalization someday? I would like a group who actually cares to step to the plate for the current needs. We are trying too. Every day I am on the phone with patients who have faced systemic discrimination in the work place, with their landlords, in court, and in child custody battles. We are planning on running a bill this upcoming legislative session to protect patients from employment discrimination. Also, we should be a launching a new patient PR campaign over the next month to help sway public opinion that patients should not be systemically discriminated against.

- Other states are amending their med laws, or attempting to, in order to remove the requirement of registration with the state... that is a serious concern, and perhaps something that should be addressed first for the people with a constitutional right to their medicine. You don’t have to register in our state to have protections under Amendment 20. How would you suggest amending the laws?

- I still feel this is a notoriety issue or groups like yourself would be grinding to help patients in the current situation we are in, before moving on to the next one. Every day I work for patients. I honestly believe that the best way for patients who have PTSD, bipolar, depression, narcolepsy to be able to use the medicine they need is to legalize marijuana for the masses. In addition, I do believe that once it is legalized, patients will no longer face systemic discrimination because they will not be the only class of people using marijuana.

- What makes anyone think that there wouldn't be stringent zoning laws as to where individuals can grow? Personal cultivation could not be regulated by locals under our initiative. We declare personal cultivation a matter of statewide concern – thus it will be impossible for locals to regulate or zone it. In fact, all the regulations (like in Denver) regarding a limitation on plants numbers would likely be voided after our initiative. Or HOA limitations? Don’t live in an HOA. Or code to follow? See two questions prior. It is already happening now, and with one incident could lead to all new task force of enforcement or fines associated with code spec.

What I was not aware of, was the ability to grow 12 plants if you have a med card also...

Thats pretty big in my book.

This whole discussion is pointless. State and Federal officials will never allow legallization to occur here in any way, shape or form. This is just ludicrous to think herb could become legal in the face of Fed opposition.
Even if 80% of Colorados registered voters turned out and voted in favor of this initiative it would never be implemented. Our State officials would simply resort to the Jeb Bush method of ballot counting to ensure failure.
You can sign your petitions and encourage everyone you know to do likewise but you'll just be pissing into the wind.

I think yer right, RMB. Especially after the MMJ showing here/in CA/etc. The fed can already see that folks will be stupid and go nuts and that isn't gonna be allowed..ever.

At the >>>very most<<< I could see the Fed allowing a decriminilzation/tolerance of a VERY small amount....much like amsterdam where it isn't legal, but possession of 5 g or less is tolerated >if< you are following the stated rules/etc).

and >possibly<...on a VERY good day...the Fed MIGHT agree to small >>>>personal use<<<< gardens and higher posession amounts >inside your home<. However, this policy would be even more leniant that holland..where as i understsnd it, personal cultivation is still prohibited.

no matter how it might shake out..if it shakes out at asll it will all begin with the Fed taking out a buncha commercial MMJ folks to send a huge message. that THE GOV'T is the drug boss who says who/who doesn't play....exactly like "prohibition" and how they stomped it hard to make folks WANT IT and then let it all return in regulated mode with only >certain< players (not you or me) playing the game/making money off the game and stayin out of jail. (bootleggers will be shot)

Anyone who thinks "legalization" will allow ANY private sales is thinking wrongly and just hasn't been payin' attention >how things work<.

"MarlBeasters" anyone?

rich mans world is in the city

Legalize Today! Get high tonight!

Every stoner has the obligation to grow a couple seed plants and guerilla seed a few mile stretch of a stream or river bottom. Even use helium balloons n paper towels for random drops. Overgrow the government. Legalized or not if it becomes as common as corn which it should be and completely devalued for anything other than a personal herb. There will be no point for the government to police it, no power struggle for money to pursue. I may just spend my retirement on a Johny appleseed quest to personally seed every major river system in CO myself. I say we all team up n plant this country, hell this whole planet from sea to sea. Money is the root of all evil.

I'll trade ya this bushel of dank for that bushel of peaches brother!

Rasta

I am the Maestro born to lead not follow

I'd seriously rather die than the give this dirty nazi republic a cent from my herb to buy bullets n bombs with.

not happenin until they pry it from my cold dead hands


One Percenter For Life and also a happy, proud, intelligent, succesful n extremly kind HUMAN BEING. Please don't judge me for my spiritual and political opinions or how I choose to alleviate my aches n pains.

:mad0233:

rockymtnbuds said:

This whole discussion is pointless. State and Federal officials will never allow legallization to occur here in any way, shape or form.

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I disagree. If the voters pass the initiative, the law makers, and ALL public officials must follow it -they are duty bound to follow the Constitution when they are sworn into office.

Will they put up resistance to doing this? Heck yeah...

Well shoot, Colorado's legislators didn't get that memo. Better tell 'em that since they seem to be violating our patient constitutional rights right and left. :(

Xxoo
Mel

Melizzard said:

Well shoot, Colorado's legislators didn't get that memo. Better tell 'em that since they seem to be violating our patient constitutional rights right and left. :(

Xxoo
Mel

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What she said.

motherlode said:

bullshit - once its being taxed and regulated we will never be free from those chains

never

Im so sick of the lets take what they will give us mentality

fuck that

if you hadnt noticed our gov is way better at taking away our rights then giving us more rights later on down the road

the only way to end MJ related crime is to let people grow how much the want where they want - period

again if you create an industry out of a PLANT there will always be a black market - which means they will always find a way to IMPRISON people over pot

if everybody had a few plants in their yard who the fuck would go around stealing it anyway

I smoked pot my first time when I was 9 so I cant really comment on the kid thing - lol

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Let me start by saying I agree with you philosophically, I too lean libertarian. I'd like little to no regulation just like any other plant. That being said, lets move on to reality.

I really cant understand your argument if in fact you are trying to make one, maybe your just a general obstructionist. I don't know. But I'm going to state my points regardless. I’ve heard idiot congressman Lamar Smith(R) Texas, babble on about how legalizing would give money to the cartels and ganjapanuers wine about walmart taking over their grow. They both wrap themselves in a flag and claim they're doing it to help us. Bugshit, its all about the money. Lamar wants the prison lobbies money, and the monopalist grower wants it at 50 an 1/8th. Couple of self serving wankers. The truth is the cartels are already being squeezed out of the pot biz. They gave up their whole tijuana stash. I don't know what they got in return, but there is no, I mean zero mexi weed comin over the Cali. border this year. So sit on it Lamar! Walmart sells apples but I still grow those. Walmart sells corn cheaper than I can grow it, and I still grow corn. I love to grow the plants I consume.

I'm so sick of the all or nothing mentality. That thought process does nothing but support the zero tolerance paradigm. If you push for all or nothing you will get nothing every time. Game over. This debate is for the people in the middle, they're the ones who move the ball. We had a pretty good team till everyone got drunk on the greed mead and started fighting on the side line. I'm med. cause I can be, and have to be, to be protected not just by, but from the law. The whole point IS for everyone to be able to have a few plants in their back yard. I already do, all my neighbors know, if I get ripped I'll call the police and make a claim on my renters insurance. Its nice being legal. ! But if some people aren't allowed to light the whole mountain on fire then they don’t wanna let anybody have a fireplace. No disrespect to anyone who still does it the hard way. We definatly wouldn’t be where we are without St. Rebel, J-dub and the rest of the pirates. Smuggling is more than just a business, it’s a way of life. Much respect to all those who do it for the right reasons.