LFH : Deficiency or Toxicity

WTFMan · Jan 22, 2020

Hey there. Ive been growing for a decade now and with little issues. Now, i am starting to experience some issues and I came here to the forums for some help from experienced growers. Here is my setup information

Nutrients: Nectar for the Gods (Gaia, Medusa, Dem(calcium), Aphro(mono potasium), Athenas(aminos), Herculean(cal-phosho), Zeus, Poseidon (kelp)
Using their nutrient chart

Soil : HP Pro Mix
2g & 10 G smart pots
Watering every 2-4 days in early veg - veg
every 2 days-ish in flower
Environmentally controlled veg and flower rooms 24 plants each room, perpetual grow, 48 total

Veg: x3 1000MH
Temp: 80F +/- 2F
Hum: 55%rh +/- 2%
PPM: 1000 +/- 100
RO water pH @ 6.2 - 6.4

Flower: x3 kind xl 1000 & x3 1000w HPS
Temps: 84F +/- 2F
Hum : 50% +/- 2%
PPM: 1500 +/- 50
RO water pH @ 6.2 -6.4 raised to 6.5 the last 2 weeks flower

The plants will start off looking great, nice green and healthy, no signs of stress, deficiency or toxicity. However, as flower progresses they will become more and more Deficient or toxic. This is the first time this has happened to me, so here I am asking for your help. I think that is all the info needed for a proper analysis besides being present in the grow. If i missed anything let me know. Thank you all for your time and energy.

Do you think this is a TOXICITY or DEFICIENCY and if so WHAT nutrient(s)

Enforcer · Jan 22, 2020

My first question would be what did you change? 10 years of growing without issues and then massive nute burn. Something changed. Also, what is the size of your grow space?

Seraphine · Jan 22, 2020

Has anything in your routine or set up changed recently?

Seraphine · Jan 22, 2020

looks a little like nutrient burn and possibly deficiency. My first thought is pH might be off. Some nutrients like nitrogen can be absorbed at wide pH spectrum, however, some nutrients like calcium and magnesium can only be absorbed at a higher pH. I would adjust your pH before messing with your nutrient application rate. Try 6.5-6.8.

Dirtbag · Jan 22, 2020

Big time nute burn.
Past week 4 or 5 in flower you should really be at 500ppm or less for feed in promix, especially in fabric pots because they lose water to evaporation way more than plastic pots. It can really build up excess nutrients and overfeed easily. When I grow in promix I keep it around 600-750 up till week 3 flower then slowly taper it back to 500 by week 5. But I also do feed feed water cycles. Are you feeding 1000-1500ppm every watering?

Also I typically run promix at ph 6 in veg and first few weeks of flower, then slowly increase to 6.5 by the end of flower. Ive never had Calmag uptake issues running it at 6. I could be wrong but I dont think ph is the cause here unless your meter is way off. I think it's the 1500ppm giving you those signs of overfeeding. Seems a logical fit.

WTFMan · Jan 22, 2020

Thank you guys for your advice and expertise. Much appreciated.

I have not changed anything in my current setup, running just under 600sqft.

Speaking with Scott Ostrander(owner NfG), he suggested I slurry test, I did, and it come back at 5.8pH from veg plants and flower plants.

Scotts Response
"Can you get me some slurry numbers from the different stages. Maybe one or two from each stage?
I would like to see where the Promix peat moss pH is coming in at, as we have been seeing a lower pH peat moss out on the west coast lately. "
after i sent results to him

"Right there. 5.7-5.8 pH!
When the pH in the root zone drops below 6.0-6.1 then we start to see a calcium deficiency which also tends to bring other issues like potassium and magnesium issues.
I am guessing that the HP, is more acidic then usual this time and as it breaks down from microbial activity, the acids keep leaching out and are starting to compound and build up.

My first recommendation is to do one Herculean flush with 1 TBLS per gallon of Herculean, 1 TBLS per gallon Gaia, and ph that to 6.5 and water that in until you get 15%-20% runs off.
Then over the next few days, up to a week, continue your normal feedings but shoot higher on the pH so that we can start buffering that acidic pH. "

oldskol4evr · Jan 22, 2020

WTFMan said:
Hey there. Ive been growing for a decade now and with little issues. Now, i am starting to experience some issues and I came here to the forums for some help from experienced growers. Here is my setup information

Nutrients: Nectar for the Gods (Gaia, Medusa, Dem(calcium), Aphro(mono potasium), Athenas(aminos), Herculean(cal-phosho), Zeus, Poseidon (kelp)
Using their nutrient chart

Soil : HP Pro Mix
2g & 10 G smart pots
Watering every 2-4 days in early veg - veg
every 2 days-ish in flower
Environmentally controlled veg and flower rooms 24 plants each room, perpetual grow, 48 total

Veg: x3 1000MH
Temp: 80F +/- 2F
Hum: 55%rh +/- 2%
PPM: 1000 +/- 100
RO water pH @ 6.2 - 6.4

Flower: x3 kind xl 1000 & x3 1000w HPS
Temps: 84F +/- 2F
Hum : 50% +/- 2%
PPM: 1500 +/- 50
RO water pH @ 6.2 -6.4 raised to 6.5 the last 2 weeks flower

The plants will start off looking great, nice green and healthy, no signs of stress, deficiency or toxicity. However, as flower progresses they will become more and more Deficient or toxic. This is the first time this has happened to me, so here I am asking for your help. I think that is all the info needed for a proper analysis besides being present in the grow. If i missed anything let me know. Thank you all for your time and energy.

Do you think this is a TOXICITY or DEFICIENCY and if so WHAT nutrient(s)

dont you think 1000 ppm in veg is a bit extreme,better at 450 i would think,i asume your using the 500 scale of the hannah chart

Dirtbag · Jan 22, 2020

WTFMan said:
Thank you guys for your advice and expertise. Much appreciated.

I have not changed anything in my current setup, running just under 600sqft.

Speaking with Scott Ostrander(owner NfG), he suggested I slurry test, I did, and it come back at 5.8pH from veg plants and flower plants.

Scotts Response
"Can you get me some slurry numbers from the different stages. Maybe one or two from each stage?
I would like to see where the Promix peat moss pH is coming in at, as we have been seeing a lower pH peat moss out on the west coast lately. "
after i sent results to him

"Right there. 5.7-5.8 pH!
When the pH in the root zone drops below 6.0-6.1 then we start to see a calcium deficiency which also tends to bring other issues like potassium and magnesium issues.
I am guessing that the HP, is more acidic then usual this time and as it breaks down from microbial activity, the acids keep leaching out and are starting to compound and build up.

My first recommendation is to do one Herculean flush with 1 TBLS per gallon of Herculean, 1 TBLS per gallon Gaia, and ph that to 6.5 and water that in until you get 15%-20% runs off.
Then over the next few days, up to a week, continue your normal feedings but shoot higher on the pH so that we can start buffering that acidic pH. "

Man it's not ph, you're just overfeeding, which is probably why the ph is so low. I've fed I intentionally as low a 5.8 in promix with zero issues. Besides I'm not seeing calcium deficiency in your pics, I'm seeing severe nute burn. And the fact that you're feeding 3ec backs up that theory. When you slurry test what was the ec/ppm of the slurry? Promix is way too forgiving with regard to ph for it to cause issues to this extreme. Its overfeeding.

Seraphine · Jan 22, 2020

1500ppm is high but not unheard of. The reason I don't think its the ppm/EC is because the OP stated he has not had any issues in 10 years and nothing has changed. I am assuming this means the strains the OP is growing stayed the same too. The only thing that changed is the peat in the the Promix. The peat has been coming back at a lower pH. I still think the OP should follow the recommendations of Scott Ostrander(owner NfG). If that doesn't solve the issue, then it is the OP's ppm.

WTFMan · Jan 22, 2020

Ahhh C02 ppms, not EC/PPMs

LFH : Deficiency or Toxicity

LFH : Deficiency or Toxicity

WTFMan

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