Moab?

mushface · Jun 25, 2013

Tap h2o = 150ppm. Added GH3 @ 50%. Sea Green 1.5ml/gal. Hammerhead @ 2.5ml/gal. After this my ppm = 690. Once I started adding Moab my ppms would barely rise. It took more imo than the recommended dose to bring my ppms up to 890. My strain can handle up to 1000ppm max without leaf tip burn. My question is can I still burn my plants even if the ppms are within range using Moab?

Classic Remix · Jun 25, 2013

My buddy just hit 1.1 GPW in a 3k room and never went over 500ppm... Just a thought. Sometimes you waste hoping to get more.

I use HALF of dosage of Moab regardless of ppm. That shit will fry your plants so quick. It's funny a half teaspoon in 5 gal looks like nothing, I promise it'll do the trick

mushface · Jun 25, 2013

Thanks for the info fellow farmers. I flushed the hell out of my plants dumped the res. Refilled res with base nutes @ 50% and follwed maddfarmers instructions regardless of ppm. I used an excessive amount of moab for 2-3 feedings for a day but flushed with a flushing agent wicked up through the bottom of plant and from top until runoff hoping that i see no ill affects.

Reebs · Jun 25, 2013

i've used MOAB since it came out, trick is to start at 50% of whats listed on the container, then work your way up to the max.

to be completely honest, i do 75 gal res's and i never put more than 16 Tsp. in a res. thats the last feed before flush, i start at 6.

We Solidarity · Jun 26, 2013

Classic Remix said:
My buddy just hit 1.1 GPW in a 3k room and never went over 500ppm... Just a thought. Sometimes you waste hoping to get more.

I use HALF of dosage of Moab regardless of ppm. That shit will fry your plants so quick. It's funny a half teaspoon in 5 gal looks like nothing, I promise it'll do the trick

I'm running 4x 1 month old veg pants in coco per 1000w with veg bloom and moab, EC peaks at 1.5. About to do the first moab feeding at week 5, half strength feed and half strength moab, next week I'll do 3/4 strength moab and then another 1/2 strength at week 8, a few days before flush. Never running high EC again, this is the most gravy run I've done to date. I was getting sick to my stomach doing DTW pumping nutrients...most wasteful thing ever invented. Same concept miracle-gro uses - start the EC high, in a media designed to be overwatered. If the moisture level is kept optimum anything over 2.4 will start burning plants, 5.0 will kill them. Supposedly all it takes is about 200 PPM nitrate nitrogen in the soil to start harming bio-life, and only 50 ppm phosphorus.

Capulator · Jun 26, 2013

RECIPE FOR MOAB w/out vitamin B-1 @ 1 tsp/5 gal:

.1 grams/gal MAP
1.07 grams per gallon MKP

this is based on my MOAB weighing 5.7 grams per teaspoon and coming out to

N:3
P:68
K: 80

when added to 5 gallons of water (recommended dose is 1-2 tsp per 5 gal)

.1 MAP and 1.07 MKP comes out to

N: 3
P: 71
K: 80

so its pretty close considering the small amounts being used. If you want 2 tsp/5 gal strength just double it. .2 MAP and 2.14 MKP.

Capulator · Jun 26, 2013

And FWIW I max out at around 1.6 EC now. Anything more is a waste. Right now I am at 600ppm jacks/epsom/MAP and my plants are stoked.

We Solidarity · Jun 26, 2013

^ and regarding that...I see no difference between MOAB and MKP in a side-by-side experiment. I'm just really tired of bringing up how companies put $2.00 worth of fertilizer in a plastic jar and sell it for $50.

sealed138 · Jun 26, 2013

Capulator said:
RECIPE FOR MOAB w/out vitamin B-1 @ 1 tsp/5 gal:

.1 grams/gal MAP
1.07 grams per gallon MKP

this is based on my MOAB weighing 5.7 grams per teaspoon and coming out to

N:3
P:68
K: 80

when added to 5 gallons of water (recommended dose is 1-2 tsp per 5 gal)

.1 MAP and 1.07 MKP comes out to

N: 3
P: 71
K: 80

so its pretty close considering the small amounts being used. If you want 2 tsp/5 gal strength just double it. .2 MAP and 2.14 MKP.

got a recipe for hammerhead cap?

Capulator · Jun 26, 2013

sealed138 said:
got a recipe for hammerhead cap?

Sure whats the GA?

sealed138 · Jun 26, 2013

Capulator said:
Sure whats the GA?

sealed138 · Jun 26, 2013

I use it at 5 ml per gallon.
2 1/2 ml per gallon with moab.

Capulator · Jun 26, 2013

sealed138 said:
I use it at 5 ml per gallon.
2 1/2 ml per gallon with moab.

all you need to do is download the calculator from cannastats. Look at that GA and see where it says derived from? Those are the only 2 salts in hammerhead...

Go to customhydronutrients.com, and buy those 2 ingredients. Then, download the nute calculator here: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/download.htm

download the excel spreadsheet, premixppm. That's the only one you need to reverse engineer all the expensive nutes.

Once you download the calculator, I can help you figure it out for yourself, and then you will understand how to mix your own salts and you will be on the path to save lots of $$>

Capulator · Jun 26, 2013

here is the MKP (looks like they stepped it up and are now carrying haifa brand salts!) .. https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...ducts_id=272&zenid=4s75h0b44dqpi6nlco2r1hej04

and here is the P2O5: https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...ducts_id=454&zenid=4s75h0b44dqpi6nlco2r1hej04

That's 2 lbs of salts for 12 bucks or so...

1 liter of hammerhead is like 40 bucks dude. I don't want to tell you how many liters this will make for you... but when you find out you will be like... "shit..."

Capulator · Jun 26, 2013

I can't get hammerhead numbers with what they list. However I can come really close with a couple extra ingredients.

5 mL of hammer head in a gallon of water equals:

28ppm N
24ppm P
115ppm K

I can use .9 grams K2So4, .45 grams CaNo3, .25 K nitrate, and .2 MKP to get

27 ppm N
25ppm P
114 ppm K

plus 40 ppm S and 20 ppm Ca due to the fact that I need to use other salts to hit the same numbers. Very curious as to why?

Anyway 1 liter of hammmerhead will make you like 760 gallons worth @ 5ml/gal.

that actually seems really reasonable, but I am going to do a little research on how they list just 2 ingredients and can get those numbers... seems weird.

sealed138 · Jun 27, 2013

one liter goes into 200 gallons of bloom nutes

midwestdensies · Jun 27, 2013

I like moab per instructions and typically 1/2 or so and work my way up. Week 1,5,6 is when i hit with the booster. Seems to work pretty good.

dizzlekush · Jun 27, 2013

Capulator said:
I can't get hammerhead numbers with what they list. However I can come really close with a couple extra ingredients.

5 mL of hammer head in a gallon of water equals:

28ppm N
24ppm P
115ppm K

I can use .9 grams K2So4, .45 grams CaNo3, .25 K nitrate, and .2 MKP to get

27 ppm N
25ppm P
114 ppm K

plus 40 ppm S and 20 ppm Ca due to the fact that I need to use other salts to hit the same numbers. Very curious as to why?

Anyway 1 liter of hammmerhead will make you like 760 gallons worth @ 5ml/gal.

that actually seems really reasonable, but I am going to do a little research on how they list just 2 ingredients and can get those numbers... seems weird.

Just for anyone who's planning on making a concentrated liquid product with this formula, the potassium sulfate and the calcium nitrate cannot be mixed together in concentrated amounts, it will precipitate out insoluble calcium sulfate.

FWIW The old labels of hammerhead did have potassium sulfate included on the analysis. Id imagine its still the same formula and they've simply removed the potassium sulfate from the label to make reverse engineering the product more difficult. Id imagine Cap can get a very close formula with the Calcium nitrate completely removed, more potassium nitrate and less potassium sulfate.

Capulator · Jun 27, 2013

dizzlekush said:
Just for anyone who's planning on making a concentrated liquid product with this formula, the potassium sulfate and the calcium nitrate cannot be mixed together in concentrated amounts, it will precipitate out insoluble calcium sulfate.

FWIW The old labels of hammerhead did have potassium sulfate included on the analysis. Id imagine its still the same formula and they've simply removed the potassium sulfate from the label to make reverse engineering the product more difficult. Id imagine Cap can get a very close formula with the Calcium nitrate completely removed, more potassium nitrate and less potassium sulfate.

Thank you for pointing this out dizzlekush. I forgot to mention that. They must be using some additional form of nitrogen that they aren't listing. I can't get the exact numbers of hammerhead other wise even just using the K sulfate, P nitrate, and MKP and no CaNo3. I can get pretty damn close though, just off by about 10ppm N, which you can easily get from other places.

But yeah you can't add CaNo3 (calcium nitrate) to a concentrated solution with the rest. It will fall out.

1) mix the MKP K nitrate, and K sulfate in a cup of warm water, add this to the res.
2) mix the CaNo3 in warm water, add to the res.

sealed138 said:
one liter goes into 200 gallons of bloom nutes

Ooops. Yeah its 200 gal not 757. I forgot to convert back to gal from L.

So you can make about 5x the amount of bloom solution going with salts for about 25 bucks instead of 40.

dizzlekush · Jun 27, 2013

Per gallon:
0.4g Monobasic Potassium Phosphate
0.77g Potassium Nitrate
0.05g Potassium Sulfate

makes
28ppm N
24ppm P
115ppm K

and ~2.5ppm S

Id imagine the N and K ppm for Hammerhead aren't 100% accurate, as this would explain the ~2ppm discrepancy that required me to use potassium sulfate to get identical numbers as the AN numbers. Im assuming that the potassium sulfate is completely unnecessary.

The formula is basically a simple 2:1 Potassium Nitrate:MPK formula, at 0.8 and 0.4 g per gallon this gets you

29ppm N
24ppm P
112ppm K

The plants won't be effected by the negligible ~2% difference in the formula, many companies don't have that much consistency from one bottle to the other. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Moab?

Moab?

mushface

Classic Remix

mushface

Reebs

We Solidarity

Capulator

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Capulator

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We Solidarity

sealed138

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Capulator

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Capulator

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Capulator

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Capulator

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sealed138

First Starfighter

midwestdensies

dizzlekush

Capulator

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dizzlekush

Moab?

Moab?

mushface

Classic Remix

mushface

Reebs

We Solidarity

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

We Solidarity

sealed138

First Starfighter

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

sealed138

First Starfighter

sealed138

First Starfighter

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

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sealed138

First Starfighter

midwestdensies

dizzlekush

Capulator

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