MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

straincreation · Oct 18, 2014

Hey everyone, so i felt this would be the best place to post this giviing that bredders are handling different phenos day in and day out.

So here is my question has anyone ever experienced a a mom plant that had cuts taken at the exct same time, only to show different pheno traits threw out grow, broader leaves, different feeding ppm sensitivity things of that nature.
Could this be a mutation of some sort ? i have had this og cut for over 5 yrs now she is still strong, i have no problems just noticed this for the first time.

Now im only basing my observation from all veg, 6wks or so, and now week 3 and week 2 of flower so i dont know if the flowers will produce any difference, we will have to see.

So if i get any bites ill take some pics tomorrow of leaves and of the plants.

Thanks
happy farmin;)

burn4me · Oct 18, 2014

Very interesting. Think ill grab a seat and learn something new!

ShroomKing · Oct 18, 2014

Let's see!

Sativied · Oct 18, 2014

When you clone a plant you copy the genotypes, not the phenotypes. Phenotype is the expressed trait of a genotype influenced by the environment. A mutation implies a genetics alteration, i.e. changed genotypes which don't have to occur for a phenotype to express differently. Getting a more/less sativa-dom pheno from the same mother plant is certainly possible. Less likely when they all are given the same environment and treatment, but clones merely start out with the same genes, doesn't mean they grow out to be identical.

Pics are always a plus :)

Seamaiden · Oct 18, 2014

Yes, it's happened to me. In fact, I've got some Chem '91 x Pacifica cuts in my GH that have been under supplemental light. Two of them are in full flower with lots of little bitty stacked buds. I was *trying* to keep them in veg!

Dunge · Oct 18, 2014

I'm subbed, so I hope you continue this thread.
Sounds interesting.
I want to see flowers.

Have you ruled out user error?
Cuts can get mixed up.

straincreation · Oct 18, 2014

Sativied said:
When you clone a plant you copy the genotypes, not the phenotypes. Phenotype is the expressed trait of a genotype influenced by the environment. A mutation implies a genetics alteration, i.e. changed genotypes which don't have to occur for a phenotype to express differently. Getting a more/less sativa-dom pheno from the same mother plant is certainly possible. Less likely when they all are given the same environment and treatment, but clones merely start out with the same genes, doesn't mean they grow out to be identical.

Pics are always a plus :)

Thanks for the insight. Iwill be posting pics as soon as i get off work well at lights on 9p.m.. thanks sativied, so as you explained that plants can show sati traits, am i correct in assuming this can go the other way also. As in showing indica traits that differ from mom, sisters.
If this is the case then will finishing time and yeilds be affected.
Also all these were taken at the same time , in the same dome, transplanted at the same time, fed the same reg until i seen that she did not like the 1200 ppm that i was giving everyone else.
So i dialed it down a bit.
Thanks again
happy farmin;)

straincreation · Oct 18, 2014

Dunge said:
I'm subbed, so I hope you continue this thread.
Sounds interesting.
I want to see flowers.

Have you ruled out user error?
Cuts can get mixed up.

I only have one mom one strain at this time.
so yes no mix ups that for sure100%.
Happy farmin;)

straincreation · Oct 18, 2014

Seamaiden said:
Yes, it's happened to me. In fact, I've got some Chem '91 x Pacifica cuts in my GH that have been under supplemental light. Two of them are in full flower with lots of little bitty stacked buds. I was *trying* to keep them in veg!

I actually kept this mom alive for a year in a half under supp light. 2 t5 to be exact. This was the first session of clones i took after pulling her out of retirment.
This is why i put it out there, and asked if mutation was a possibility.
Happy farmin;)

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

Ok so here is few pics. Now like i said ive had this starin for many years. So over the time i have come to know her very well. In all the years this is the first sign of noticable differences.
1st. My mom
2nd.a side by side (note that these plants are a week apart in flowering)
3rd. will be of all three
4th.Will be her in the flowering room under hps.

here are a few different pics of the side by, they are small differences but they are there. Also there are a few things the camera wont pick up, like leaf characteristics. as you can see she is the odd one out in the garden but healthy as can be.
So my question being really should i make it an effort to try and reclone from her. I have many cuts from my mom already, but could it be something special. Or is it possible for it to just revert back to normal after cloning. Seeing as how the transformation occured during that process. .

I do really want to see if the flowers show any difference.
if positive i dont want to lose the traits so what you guys think.
Hapoy farmin;)

Sativied said:
When you clone a plant you copy the genotypes, not the phenotypes. Phenotype is the expressed trait of a genotype influenced by the environment. A mutation implies a genetics alteration, i.e. changed genotypes which don't have to occur for a phenotype to express differently. Getting a more/less sativa-dom pheno from the same mother plant is certainly possible. Less likely when they all are given the same environment and treatment, but clones merely start out with the same genes, doesn't mean they grow out to be identical.

Pics are always a plus :)

way2green · Oct 19, 2014

I have experienced this on a smaller scale.
Those girls don't even look like the same genes really and truly. Very, very interesting. Gonna watch this closely!

homebrew420 · Oct 19, 2014

they look the same to me. Many plant experience a morphological change with leaf shape during flower, casue many to produce smaller , thinner leaves. I have seen far worse/better examples of this happening. I have also seen plants when under low light and high feed regiment do a strange change. THe plants become more brittle and the leaf shape and form go completely uniform regardless of genetic variety.
Who is everything else, I know its early, aroma stretch vigor? Nothing to worry about imo.

Peace

soserthc1 · Oct 19, 2014

Interesting ... Kinda looked different to me but @homebrew420 post makes sense after I ruled out enviorment , being that their a week behind it's quite possible
Gonna sub up and see this one ride out ....

Seamaiden · Oct 19, 2014

straincreation said:
Thanks for the insight. Iwill be posting pics as soon as i get off work well at lights on 9p.m.. thanks sativied, so as you explained that plants can show sati traits, am i correct in assuming this can go the other way also. As in showing indica traits that differ from mom, sisters.
If this is the case then will finishing time and yeilds be affected.
Also all these were taken at the same time , in the same dome, transplanted at the same time, fed the same reg until i seen that she did not like the 1200 ppm that i was giving everyone else.
So i dialed it down a bit.
Thanks again
happy farmin;)

Were they taken from the same areas of the plant as well? I've noticed that when I take cuts from different heights I'll see different phenos.

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

homebrew420 said:
they look the same to me. Many plant experience a morphological change with leaf shape during flower, casue many to produce smaller , thinner leaves. I have seen far worse/better examples of this happening. I have also seen plants when under low light and high feed regiment do a strange change. THe plants become more brittle and the leaf shape and form go completely uniform regardless of genetic variety.
Who is everything else, I know its early, aroma stretch vigor? Nothing to worry about imo.

Peace

Thanks... its not so much that im worried,you state this "Many plant experience a morphological change with leaf shape during flower" as i stated above this is not something that happened only after flowering this has been going on since she rooted, oh well over 3 months ago. I veg pictures if you wanna see them. The plant does not seem any more brittle then its counter parts.

You also state that the plants may exhibit signs of funny growth with low light high feed. They have all been under a 4ft t5 4 bulb 3 blue one red. They all gew in the same room temps, soil, even the feed until about week three when this one didnt take the 1200 ppm that everyone else was taking.

So ill keep posting i think im gonna take a clone before its to late so if there is anything i dont lose it good or bad. Like i said i have been growing this girl for years now, i would not have said anyhing if i did not notice these things early, waited for it to catch up, revert, or whtaever it needed to do it continued this growth, even into flower so now im here.

You also state this "and form go completely uniform regardless of genetic variety". Does this mean to expect them to show the same growth later in flower?

Anyway any words from a breder like you i will take with an open mind. Thanks again
happy farmin;)

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

Seamaiden said:
Were they taken from the same areas of the plant as well? I've noticed that when I take cuts from different heights I'll see different phenos.

Ahha i never thought if that i wanna say that i gave her a hair cut and they were all from new growth but i was also thining a bit. this could have been one of the little guys i thought wasnt gonna make it, from older growth and only one node under. Interesting thought. is this tried and true sea? Or just a hunch?
either way sounds logical to me.
thanks
happy farmin;)

Seamaiden · Oct 19, 2014

Just my own observations after fucking around with this for a few years now. I've read others say it absolutely makes a difference in rooting times, etc, but I'm not so diligent in that kind of observation, I tend to just kinda let things happen and go from there.

Sativied · Oct 19, 2014

straincreation said:
Or is it possible for it to just revert back to normal after cloning. Seeing as how the transformation occured during that process.

I would expect it to produce the same leaves and buds eventually.

homebrew420 said:
Many plant experience a morphological change with leaf shape during flower, casue many to produce smaller , thinner leaves.

Was recently reading a post from DJ Short about getting sativa phenos to show by using a veg schedule that's closer to our typical flower schedule, and wondered how much of that same thing happens when you switch to flowering. It's very obvious in a cross I'm working on, some start with sativa-dom, some with wider more indica dom leaflets, but once I started flowering, they all end up looking clearly sativa-dom.

Actually, although mine are from different seed and not clone, I had one that looked very much like the one in the center of the following of straincreation's pics. I called it the "ugly" one because of that leaf shape, but by now she looks like the other more sativa dom plants. I'll take and post some pics later.

And @Seamaiden brings up a good point, if I would have cloned that plant early and used one of the main branches the clone would look like a different strain than a clone from a later cutting higher up.

caveman4.20 · Oct 19, 2014

I have to read the thread a couple times so Im not redundant. interesting

caveman4.20 · Oct 19, 2014

Sativied said:
I would expect it to produce the same leaves and buds eventually.

Was recently reading a post from DJ Short about getting sativa phenos to show by using a veg schedule that's closer to our typical flower schedule, and wondered how much of that same thing happens when you switch to flowering. It's very obvious in a cross I'm working on, some start with sativa-dom, some with wider more indica dom leaflets, but once I started flowering, they all end up looking clearly sativa-dom.

Actually, although mine are from different seed and not clone, I had one that looked very much like the one in the center of the following of straincreation's pics. I called it the "ugly" one because of that leaf shape, but by now she looks like the other more sativa dom plants. I'll take and post some pics later.

And @Seamaiden brings up a good point, if I would have cloned that plant early and used one of the main branches the clone would look like a different strain than a clone from a later cutting higher up.

In my approach to indoor growing I see change in fans in veg compared to new fans in flower , but the fans starting in veg carry it over to flower without me noticing change.

MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

straincreation

burn4me

ShroomKing

Best of luck. Peace

Sativied

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Seamaiden

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Dunge

straincreation

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straincreation

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way2green

homebrew420

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Seamaiden

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straincreation

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caveman4.20

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MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

straincreation

burn4me

ShroomKing

Best of luck. Peace

Sativied

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Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Dunge

straincreation

straincreation

straincreation

straincreation

way2green

homebrew420

soserthc1

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

straincreation

straincreation

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Sativied

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caveman4.20

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