MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

Sativied · Oct 19, 2014

Here's a pic that shows what HB so nicely called that morphological change. Notice the short and overlapping leaflets. This is shortly after I moved it, already spawning more sativa-dom leaves:

Same plant couple of weeks later, as sativa dom (leaf-wise anyway) as the ones that started out with non-overlapping leaflets.

Seamaiden · Oct 19, 2014

I would not have thought that was the same plant, looking at veg vs flowering pix.

homebrew420 · Oct 19, 2014

I will say its odd. Not sure what to make of it really. Phenotype should never change from cloned plant. Hormonal issues and light/food can cause ablormalities but if treated right they usually come around. Difference in appearance is morphological.
Anyway good luck sorry cant be more of a help.

Peace

Sativied · Oct 19, 2014

homebrew420 said:
Phenotype should never change from cloned plant.

I agree, it should never :) Unfortunately that's not the case. When a genotype expresses in a phenotype (creating new cells based on that DNA) the environment plays a role.

An easy example is a strain of which the purple-calyx phenos show only given certain conditions. One of the clones of that plant resulting in purple buds, is no guarantee others will if the conditions aren't the same. A clone grown in the hot summer isn't guaranteed to produce the same pheno during the winter, same for oudoor vs indoor.

Clone-only isn't really to save a particular phenotype even though in practice we treat it like that. It's to save a certain combination of heterozygous genotypes.

I realize that may sound a little controversial so:

"Moreover, even cloned individuals or identical twins , although identical in genotype, will differ from each other in phenotype because of variations in their developmental environments."
src: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/genotype-phenotype/

For once a comparison with humans actually works, identical twins (same genotypes) will still differ in phenotype.

soserthc1 · Oct 19, 2014

^^ thou this post makes perfect sense wouldn't these above plants have all been grown in the same environment ?

A question also thou the genotype can express different phenotypes in different environments will the end product ( flowers) be the same if grown in the same flower room environment ? I would have to think yes if the same mother , which leads me back to the point of the clones above being grown in the same environment
Hope that makes sense ...I'm quite baked

caveman4.20 · Oct 19, 2014

Same soil ? If recycled how can you ensure same soil was used...just thinking outloud but I'll go back and read from beginning.....could have anything different happen to it from early on? A shock of any sort maybe too cold of water or strong of nutrient, by the ac vent or a hot spot......

Sativied · Oct 19, 2014

soserthc1 said:
^^ thou this post makes perfect sense wouldn't these above plants have all been grown in the same environment ?

Yes that's why I wrote in my first reply: "Less likely when they all are given the same environment and treatment". That post above was more generally speaking, not saying that is actually what's going on with the OPs plant, just that it's possible to see pheno variation in clones from the same plant. It doesn't necessarily take a lot though (i.e. one in a corner getting less light, colder, near intake, different watering regime with a different nutrient balance, etc, etc.). It's why in that quote in my post above, they mention they "will" differ (just not necessarily for noticeable key traits), because in practice no two plants get exactly the same treatment and conditions.

After seeing the pics I honestly don't see that much difference, it seems it just isn't fully transitioned to flowering yet and like I said I expect it will end up looking like the other. Light leak or too much N in the soil or something like that seems more likely.

soserthc1 · Oct 19, 2014

Yes , I would have to agree with you @Sativied as a week that early in flower can be the reasoning for the slight difference in appearance . But he has stated that they were different even in veg , suppose time will tell .

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

soserthc1 said:
^^ thou this post makes perfect sense wouldn't these above plants have all been grown in the same environment ?

A question also thou the genotype can express different phenotypes in different environments will the end product ( flowers) be the same if grown in the same flower room environment ? I would have to think yes if the same mother , which leads me back to the point of the clones above being grown in the same environment
Hope that makes sense ...I'm quite baked

Eggzactly...

soserthc1 said:
Yes , I would have to agree with you @Sativied as a week that early in flower can be the reasoning for the slight difference in appearance . But he has stated that they were different even in veg , suppose time will tell .

And yes i will post some veg pics to show the difference. Its in the log but so you dont have to search i will just post them here.

caveman4.20 said:
Same soil ? If recycled how can you ensure same soil was used...just thinking outloud but I'll go back and read from beginning.....could have anything different happen to it from early on? A shock of any sort maybe too cold of water or strong of nutrient, by the ac vent or a hot spot......

No recycled soil. I also rotate veg room weekly so as to avoid these circumstances.

Sativied said:
Yes that's why I wrote in my first reply: "Less likely when they all are given the same environment and treatment". That post above was more generally speaking, not saying that is actually what's going on with the OPs plant, just that it's possible to see pheno variation in clones from the same plant. It doesn't necessarily take a lot though (i.e. one in a corner getting less light, colder, near intake, different watering regime with a different nutrient balance, etc, etc.). It's why in that quote in my post above, they mention they "will" differ (just not necessarily for noticeable key traits), because in practice no two plants get exactly the same treatment and conditions.

After seeing the pics I honestly don't see that much difference, it seems it just isn't fully transitioned to flowering yet and like I said I expect it will end up looking like the other. Light leak or too much N in the soil or something like that seems more likely.

Again you are correct in sayimg they are slight differences, also your pics up above show a perfect example of what you are stating may be happening.
Although this happening prior to flower is where im perplexed. Like soser said only time will tell.

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

homebrew420 said:
I will say its odd. Not sure what to make of it really. Phenotype should never change from cloned plant. Hormonal issues and light/food can cause ablormalities but if treated right they usually come around. Difference in appearance is morphological.
Anyway good luck sorry cant be more of a help.

Peace

Thanks for your input homebrew much appreciated.

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

here is super earky in veg again not much difference but its there.
She also gave me this funny thing.ill post some more once i getnoff work. This is what i have now.

GoldiNugs · Oct 19, 2014

There has to be some environmental difference that's being missed. I can't find any other decent explanation for it otherwise.

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

Can you find theodd one out? Again or was it just me ive been with her for a long time so it may just be the case, a little harder to tell but it progressed all the same. Till this day.

Thanks guys
happy farmin;)

Brotha · Oct 19, 2014

Here's what I see. Bottom photo, upper right plant. Is this the subject plant? Look at the Vermiculite in each pot, all of the pots, except the upper right has Iron Bacteria on the Vermiculite. That is indicative of Iron bacteria in your water source. As a Water Drilling Contractor, and Grower for the last 30+ years. Iron will cause a few things, one is Nute lock. The roots will also get fouled. Again don't know if that's your subject, but I would start by having you water analyzed. Call a local Water Conditioner sales guy. Tell him your interested in equipment for your water, and want a FREE water analysis. I have offer these for decades. It's a selling tool, but the info in it is excellent, and it's free! Make sure they send there water to a lab to be analized. If not the results are bullshit! Look for a dealer that sells iron filters. This should give you a 10-15 parameter report on what's in it! Every thing from how many PPM of Iron, how many Grains per Gallon (Hardness/Calcium Carbonate), to Ph, (7.0 neutral), PPM OF Sodium Cloride(Salt), ETC.....

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

You are correct on the subjest but i see no discoloration of perlite. Its not the bb its of the six in case you missunderstood. When i transplated the roots were fine and had the same progress in root development.
My water is is goid a little high in calcium and other trace minerals but i compensate by kicking back on micro nutes a bit. Everyone else is fine.
Happy farmin;)

straincreation · Oct 19, 2014

GoldiNugs said:
There has to be some environmental difference that's being missed. I can't find any other decent explanation for it otherwise.

None, been in the same room since the day she was cut off the mom plant. That was my first analysis that was ruled out quite quickly. Due to me only having a 3x4 veg tent. That i clone in also.
Happy farmin;)

MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

Sativied

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Seamaiden

Living dead girl

homebrew420

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soserthc1

caveman4.20

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soserthc1

straincreation

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GoldiNugs

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Brotha

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MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

MOM plant showing different phenos, post rooting?!

Sativied

Ruler of the Whorled

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

homebrew420

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soserthc1

caveman4.20

Sativied

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soserthc1

straincreation

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GoldiNugs

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Brotha

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