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Mother Plants grow old.

  • Thread starter Thread starter caregiverken
  • Start date Start date Jan 13, 2014
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Mother Plants grow old.

caregiverken Jan 13, 2014 49 Replies 19,689 Views
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caregiverken

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#1
I just read this posted by Steep hill labs..not sure where they got it

It's an old story... the Grower can't understand why the last three batches of clones from his mother plant 'Old Reliable' keep getting lower and lower potency values "....no matter how I change up the lighting, micro-nutrients, etc... originally my plants tested 15% CBDA & 6% THCA, now they down to 9% CBDA & 4% THCA."

Then I ask "And the plants themselves, how do they appear compared to earlier clones off the same mother plant?" The answer "Not as robust as they used to be, and more mildew problems."

Like I said, it's an old story, and it's all about old proteins and old DNA. All living organisms have a built-in clock, their 'Circadian Clock', which pretty much starts at Zero the day they/it are born/hatch/sprout. As you grow older, so do the proteins and DNA in your body, and as they get older, they breakdown, first slowly, yet over time the cumulation of damage starts to have appreciable effect on the organisms survivability.

The older a organism is when you clone from it, the more damage that is transferred into the new clones, therefore clones from the mother plants first year contain many less damaged proteins than clones taken during the mothers 3rd year. Bottom line: the longer you keep a mother plant, the poorer quality the clones will statistically be, and there is no way around it if you keep using the same mother plant.

This is why it is wise to seed out a small portion of one of your early clones, then safely store those seeds for long term storage, so you have a ready supply of new mother plants. Of course, bio-diversity being what it is, different seeds will have sprout to form different phenotypes, so you will need plenty of seed to get the new phenotypical mother you are interested in. IF the phenotype just happens to be the common phenotype, then this is easy since 50% of the seeds will be that common phenotype. If on the other hand, what you want is a rare phenotype, then your probability of getting what you want is much less (1/4, 1/8, 1/16/1/32, etc), so you will need a larger quantity of seed to find your desired plant.
 
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caregiverken

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#2
steep hill said,

If you clone a clone of a clone of a clone, that final clone was effectively cloned from very old proteins. The aging process started when the original plant sprouted from a seed.
Click to expand...
 
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Seamaiden

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#3
Makes sense to me.
 
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Cherrorist

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#4
So is there any rule of thumb on how old you should let a mother get?
 
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Gamrstwin36

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#5
Cool post ken! Vital information!
 
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Camdawg

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#6
Yet people brag about 20 year old mothers
 
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green punk

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#7
Cool topic.
A clone is physiologically the same age as the mother... So, what about using "old" clone of clone ^10 used for crosses by some of the more established breeders? Would it affect the vitality of the seeds, using that old tired girl? Would the tired genes (genetic drift) be passed to the new seeds? Or, would the genetics of the new seeds be a copy (1/2) of the original sprout?

Anyone ever hear about putting a older genetic specimen outside to "revitalize it"?
 
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Oregon Panda

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#8
Its bs. I've said it before and I will say it again. The same shishkaberry clone has been passed around oregon since the early 2000's and its not any less potent than it was then.

No one is going to get new shishkaberry seeds, cash crop ken is in prison or dead. Any "new shishkaberry" isnt. Its a fuckin selfy or worse, a reiteration.

I would put money on my suspicion that steep hill labs has a vested interest with/in a seed company.
 
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Smoking Gun

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#9
Thanks for the great post Ken. I can see there are going to be some great questions and information posted here.
 
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Camdawg

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#10
Can genetic drift also be the product of climatazation?(how the fuck do you spell that? ) think darwin @Oregon Panda the shiskaberry is Oregon local but if clones got traded and traveled she could attempt to accumulate. This would be more obvious to outdoor but could even affect indoor. This is all speculation btw not saying THIS IS HOW IT IS! merely saying it could play a role in the changes in strains
 
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Oregon Panda

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#11
Back in the 80's some relatives were trying to get a coca plant to grow indoors. They failed until they brought some native soil from Colombia back. Related? Perhaps.
 
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Camdawg

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#12
Oregon Panda said:
Back in the 80's some relatives were trying to get a coca plant to grow indoors. They failed until they brought some native soil from Colombia back. Related? Perhaps.
Click to expand...
I'd snort that dirt
 
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leadsled

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#13
Very True. All part of dna and genetics.
dna mutation can come from old age and various other factors, stress, viruses and diseases, pests, age, mutation in cutting clones, a weak phenotype to name a few.

Need to keep making new healthy clones to prevent genetic mutation and keep em that way. 6-8 months then make new mother. Some go as long as a year. I like to play the better safe than sorry route.

Best to have multiple backups of healthy mothers. Regenerating them and always keeping the healthiest selection for your new clone mother. Not the weak leftover plant you did not flower..

But garbage in garbage out, need to start with something healthy and keep it healthy.

Keeping the same mother for years and then she gets sick, or less than healthy. Then you could have the start of a form of dna mutation. If you are on top of things and keep multiple healthy sources of mothers somewhere you can keep clones forever.

Lots of killer genetics around that are still going and not lacking vigor, yield or potency. Good idea to have backup seeds off the healthy genetics. Then can get around any mutations you run into.
 
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leadsled

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#14
green punk said:
Cool topic.
A clone is physiologically the same age as the mother... So, what about using "old" clone of clone ^10 used for crosses by some of the more established breeders? Would it affect the vitality of the seeds, using that old tired girl? Would the tired genes (genetic drift) be passed to the new seeds? Or, would the genetics of the new seeds be a copy (1/2) of the original sprout?

Anyone ever hear about putting a older genetic specimen outside to "revitalize it"?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that If the dna is already mutated, you are beyond the point of no return. The mutation will be part of the new phenotypes.

Camdawg said:
Can genetic drift also be the product of climatazation?(how the fuck do you spell that? ) think darwin @Oregon Panda the shiskaberry is Oregon local but if clones got traded and traveled she could attempt to accumulate. This would be more obvious to outdoor but could even affect indoor. This is all speculation btw not saying THIS IS HOW IT IS! merely saying it could play a role in the changes in strains
Click to expand...
yes, that could cause shock or stress and then a genetic mutation. stress can cause the malfuntioning of dna repair. Changed mediums and also changed enviroments. More stress, more chance for mutation of dna.
 
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#15
caregiverken said:
I just read this posted by Steep hill labs..not sure where they got it.
Click to expand...

Can I ask where on Steep Hill's website (or elsewhere) you found this?
 
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LegalGrow

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#16
So what about decendants of the mothers...? A clone of a clone of a clone of a clone and so on.. let the mothers flower and harvest after a period of time and bring new mothers from the same first plant?
Is the majority thinking that these will just keep losing thc levels or is that just a seed company's sales strategy?
 
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PButter

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#17
I think we(me) ought to change up genetics after the mom has had any significant deficiencies or when I see that the original vigor, potency and interest decline. A well treated mom and her well treated offspring's offspring should provide a near copy for long enough to get tried of almost anything.

PB
 
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caregiverken

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#18
I dont think Steep hill is in the seed biz

BrandonJames said:
Can I ask where on Steep Hill's website (or elsewhere) you found this?
Click to expand...
I read it on their Faceboook page :)
https://www.facebook.com/steep.hill.lab

Maybe @Steep Hill Lab will post here?
 
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sanvanalona

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#19
I do not believe this at all, and this is why. Do you like OG kush? SFV, Tahoe, or Larry? How about Sour Diesel? Blue Dream? Afgoo? GDP? All of these are extremely old strains yet they are identical in every way shape and fashion since I started growing them years ago. The flavor, look, yield, and high are all equal. IF there is a drift, or a genetic mutation due to age, then I would say that it is very weak at best because of the lack of noticeable difference from when I first grew them until now.

I have seen old strains such as U.k. cheese do much better outside than inside, but I have no past with the cheese as it is from the U.k. and has only been here since 06 so it may never have grown inside that well. I will take unhealthy plants outside in order to get them back to healthy again if necessary.....not sure if this affects the genetics though.
 
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caregiverken

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#20
sanvanalona said:
I will take unhealthy plants outside in order to get them back to healthy again if necessary......
Click to expand...
That always works for me too
 
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Replies 49
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Started Jan 13, 2014
Latest post Mar 12, 2018
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