MPB's are takin over. Bossman converting.

Lost · Apr 2, 2010

I would put your 1000's in the middle where they light more plants with more lumens. You have 4 1000's in that setup only lighting 2 plant sides. You want the inner 5 to be 1000's and the outside 600's for max yield :)

Coxie · Apr 3, 2010

What's up Bossman? Hope all goes well for you... Something I was thinking about last night after I dropped the sugar ? to you was a ? I asked one of the AN tech support dudes a couple months ago. After explaining to him that I was using super-duper HFRDWC I think he said that I could use a light dose of carboload in bloom if I wanted but that in a system like this it wasn't that necessary because the plants would be so healthy and quick-growing that all the rapid action in the phyllosphere would actually cause the plant to secrete 'natural' sugars at the root tips. I kind of assumed that this may be similar to the way humic acids surround roots in a halo-like bond that then gets the chelation thing going, and interestingly enough he told me the same thing about using the humic/fulvic. He said no humic at all and like a 1/3 dose of fulvic in flower. Anyways, we'll have to see what DDS says about all this!!

Coxie · Apr 3, 2010

Oh! Almost forgot to mention the AN product 'Revive.' Don't know if you're familiar with it at all OR if it would work in this (or any) situation considering the excess amount of H + G in your system, but I read the label today and it's got a small amount of organic and/or nitrate nitrogen as well as a light dose - I think! - of Cal/Mag/Iron/Mang, etc. in super chelated form. Seems super soluble like a 100% chem. and it can be used in the rez or as a foliar feed. Tried a light foliar today an a few slightly damaged fans that had spots similar to yours that are still on the veg table - will let you know if it does anything for me!

Widowmaker · Apr 3, 2010

Crysmatic said:
1kw bulbs are cheaper per watt, are equidistant on the floor plan, and yield more than 600w. on a 12 plant/13 light layout, and the perimeter plants get 3 kw, while the inside plants get 4 kw. if you use (5) 600w in the middle, then all the plants get 2.6-2.8 kw. is there a good reason you'd want to evenly light the plants, aside from even growth?

I put an extra row of plants to use the end lights better. the 10 plant layout only uses 45* of the two corner bulbs. also canadian medmar laws allow 6 plants per patient (my personal concern).

X=1kw
x=600w
O=plant

XOXOX
OxOxO
XOxOX
OxOxO
XOXOX

Lost is right and also if you put 90* reflectors on your 600W on the corners they will have as much or more light than they would with a bare 1000W.
:icon_spin:

Coxie · Apr 3, 2010

Many thanks again DDS! This invaluble info answers many questions pointing to right where I'm at right now! Fed at 735 today and they are lovin it all right now! finally moving into mbs in 2 days. Can't tell you how excited - Finally almost time to sit back and watch the show of a lifetime!!!

BOSSMAN88188 · Apr 3, 2010

What up peep's
I do have to disagree with the use of 600's.
IMO 600 watt are a waste of money and electric.
I do use a 600 but I would not buy another one. And this one will end up in a box with an old 1000, watt magnetic and my 400 watt digi.
The lumens are close to a 1,000 watt but I am more interested in penetration and the 600 is not even close to a 1000 watt in penetration.

I would rather have a 1000 watt hitting only 1 side of a plant then to waste my electricity on a 600 watter.

Just my opinion. also the 600 create almost as much heat. So where is the real benefit.

Crysmatic · Apr 3, 2010

my thoughts too. maybe i should have said, is there a good reason to use 600w - no.

i didn't think to use a horizontal reflector in the vertical position.

btw, i think it's really smart the way you found hot spots with the laser thermometer, and the vertical fans to make an air curtain around the lights. way to raise the bar!

Shady · Apr 3, 2010

:giggle... I'll take those extra 600's any day.

MedicalINFO · Apr 3, 2010

I'm at 1100 ppms, day 10 of flower, with all H&G plus a little cal mag and the girls are loving it... Does this mean I'm really at 1800ppm?

these black Dominas are nute Hawgs

mcattak · Apr 3, 2010

MedicalINFO said:
I'm at 1100 ppms, day 10 of flower, with all H&G plus a little cal mag and the girls are loving it... Does this mean I'm really at 1800ppm?

these black Dominas are nute Hawgs

Listen to the plants...I maxed out at 1400 ppm...Week 5 flower...

Widowmaker · Apr 3, 2010

Boss, No disrespect indented, you could say the same thing about 1000W lights as compared to 1500W. It’s all about ROI return on investment.

Things to think about before throwing your 600 watters to the curb.

Hortilux LU600 147 lumens per watt, LU1000 145 lumens per watt. That’s right 600W lamp is more efficient than the 1000W.

I’ve measured a bare 1000W lamp at 54,600 Lux at 18 ½’, the same lamp with a 90* reflector at the same distance at 109,900 Lux. That’s twice as much light with the reflector. Don’t believe that a cool tube with its internal half round reflector will you get twice the light but still is an effective way to go. There are lots of folks out there with fixtures that are normally used horizontally that would get you twice the light output, making a 600W work well as perimeter type light.

Distance and angle between the light and the plant makes a big difference. Move 16” to 8” form the light and brightness doubles. Angle of the light causes very dramatic changes also.

Heat is harder to put my finger on, manufactures don’t seem to publish much info on it, but since the lamps are the same technology, I’m willing to wager that the heat per watt is not that different between 600W and 1000W.
I return you now to the Bossman show.
:icon_spin:

S. Plisskin · Apr 3, 2010

Good info Window maker. I was going to get cool tubes wout reflectors for the perim but what you say makes sense. I think i will get the reflector kind now.

Thanks Willow maker.

ESER.ONE · Apr 3, 2010

Hey bossman how's it going there. Plants are looking good but I would highly reccomend to drop the ph to atleast 5.7 since your doing hydro. 5.4 to 5.9 is the range 6.0 and higher your nitrogen is not being picked up as good as it should be therefor the lack of green and then nitrogen def causes mag def so that's why you see brown spots also. If it were to happen in flower budsites would not grow and the buds already forming wouldbe so small so the yield will suffer greatly. Have gone thru those same probs bro .

doubleds · Apr 4, 2010

BOSSMAN88188 said:
What up peep's
I do have to disagree with the use of 600's.
IMO 600 watt are a waste of money and electric.
I do use a 600 but I would not buy another one. And this one will end up in a box with an old 1000, watt magnetic and my 400 watt digi.
The lumens are close to a 1,000 watt but I am more interested in penetration and the 600 is not even close to a 1000 watt in penetration.

I would rather have a 1000 watt hitting only 1 side of a plant then to waste my electricity on a 600 watter.

Just my opinion. also the 600 create almost as much heat. So where is the real benefit.

PERFECT BRO !!

i use them for corners but if i didnt have them already then i wouldnt be buying them for sure.

dds

ESER.ONE · Apr 4, 2010

No bossman and doubleds 600 are always better than 1000's but when your growing like you guys are with no hoods then 1000s ar the way to go. You can always cover more space from the top using less watts with 600 but your plants always gotta be smaller than 3 feet for full top to bottom penetration but the ways your set up is built you gotta go with 1000 watters for maximum penetration like you said but that just depends on how big your plants will be and knowing that using doubled'sbuckets and your gonna grow trees then the 1000 are perfect.

BOSSMAN88188 · Apr 4, 2010

ESER.ONE said:
No bossman and doubleds 600 are always better than 1000's but when your growing like you guys are with no hoods then 1000s ar the way to go. You can always cover more space from the top using less watts with 600 but your plants always gotta be smaller than 3 feet for full top to bottom penetration but the ways your set up is built you gotta go with 1000 watters for maximum penetration like you said but that just depends on how big your plants will be and knowing that using doubled'sbuckets and your gonna grow trees then the 1000 are perfect.

I wonder how many of each you have run?
I have ran a few of each. And what matters to me is always penetration.
Lumen may be comparible but only at close distance.
I use a light meter to determine what does best were.
And the fact that a 600 puts out almost as much heat as a 1,000 watt makes it pointless to me.
At lust 3 feet away the lumens from a 600 are so low it just does not compare.
Also in a hood only half the bulb really getting to the plants then it make's even less sense to run a 600.

DD runs his setup at PH 6 with no problem.
And PH just like everything else is strain specific.
They seem to be loving 6 so with that I will stay.

Crysmatic · Apr 4, 2010

a 600 uses proportionately less power than a 1000, and produces more light. said another way, relatively less heat is made to make light.

my point was that a 600w light and ballast kit costs -more- than a 1000w kit, and the bulbs themselves are the same cost. 600w shine in gpw conversions.

(3) 600 produce the same lumens as (2) 1000 while using 10% less electricity. you save 144 kWh ($8.64 @ $0.06/kwh) on utilities using 600s in a 60 day flower cycle. if your electricity is higher than $0.12/kwh, you harvest 6x per year, and replace your bulbs yearly, then 600 start to make sense (10% of your yearly electricity expense is more than the cost of a bulb). imo 600 are better suited to horizontal use than vertical grows.

so i still agree with bossman in this case :) penetration is good. use a layout that doesn't need corner lighting.

Lost · Apr 4, 2010

It doesn't matter that the 600 is slightly more efficient, the 1000 produces more intensity. That is all that matters, intesity trumps all else, end of story.

BTW - 600 ballasts are cheaper than 1000 watt ballasts...

And about the lumens. Your wrong.. The 600's produce 90k lumens in 3 locations where as the 2 1000's create 145k lumens from two locations.. To illustrate this point you could have a rooms walls covered in CFL's and you would still not proiduce th thick, fat potent nugs the 1k will. Its all about intensity unless your doing some sort of scrog with a bajillion little plants..

Xceptional · Apr 4, 2010

BOSSMAN88188 said:
What up peep's.
Here is a vid tour of the Bossmans setup.
I know vids are a big no no.
So I will leave it up for 1 to 2 weak's.
And then I will delete it.

[youtube]fkODLCUy6gY[/youtube]

why are videos a no no and why did ya take it down!!! i was just starting a thread about doing a 10 plant setup and i think you have something i can just copy (hey why recreate the wheel). i'd love to see the vid if you still have it up on youtube somewhere...

mrdizzle · Apr 5, 2010

MPB's are takin over. Bossman converting.

MPB's are takin over. Bossman converting.

Lost

Coxie

Coxie

Widowmaker

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BOSSMAN88188

Crysmatic

Shady

Chillin' in the Shade...

MedicalINFO

mcattak

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Widowmaker

S. Plisskin

ESER.ONE

doubleds

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ESER.ONE

BOSSMAN88188

Crysmatic

Lost

Xceptional

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MPB's are takin over. Bossman converting.

MPB's are takin over. Bossman converting.

Lost

Coxie

Coxie

Widowmaker

Coxie

BOSSMAN88188

Crysmatic

Shady

Chillin' in the Shade...

MedicalINFO

mcattak

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Widowmaker

S. Plisskin

ESER.ONE

doubleds

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ESER.ONE

BOSSMAN88188

Crysmatic

Lost

Xceptional

mrdizzle

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