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  • Need Help Diagnosing- Led Burn? Nutrient Burn? Disease?

Need Help Diagnosing- Led Burn? Nutrient Burn? Disease?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BDB Budz
  • Start date Start date Aug 12, 2017
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Need Help Diagnosing- Led Burn? Nutrient Burn? Disease?

BDB Budz Aug 12, 2017 16 Replies 3,793 Views
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BDB Budz

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Aug 12, 2017
#1
Hey guys! Brand new here, this will be my first post other than an introduction! But i got a problem thats driven me here, and its been bothering me for awhile. First my set up:

Set up: If it works ill upload some pictures to give you an idea, but i built a grow room in the once 'breakfast room' of my studio apartment! I put up and auxiliary, reflective foam wall, a beam, and a door. Inside (just recently) I've built a two-level wooden structure on wheels to open up the possibility of cycling crops, flower on bottom, veg on top. I have 20 cuttings from the current cycle in their flowering stage as i wanted to try out monster cropping, what ever, if anything, survives is whats going on top but thats besides the point. I have 3 P600 Platinum LEDs (600 watts LED = 800w HPS) about 7-8 inches away from them running veg + bloom settings on. The plants are in 2 or 3 gallon pots, I'm not sure which but they're also all trellised out about 3 ft tall, so i can't take em out to look. I don't know what the strain is, i think its two different, I did get it from a dispensary but just forgot because where I'm from weed didn't have strains in this way and I'm just getting use to this.

Nutrient: Had been using a recommended blend of Botincare and various other, probably irresponsibly balanced in nutrients until about 3 weeks ago when i flushed for 2 week then begin using a combination of earth juice products- Cat, Micro, Grow, Bloom, Hi-Brix and then Hygrozyme. I've only watered with that mix 1 time (last time) and i mixed it according to the bottle, shooting for their 'medium' and 'strong' suggestions.

Problem: Please look at the attached photos for the best description, i picked various leaves with a various problems I've been seeing, or perhaps different expressions of the same one. These were the more extreme examples i could find from the 12 plants, mostly from the back row closest to the standing A/C unit. To give a written description, certain nugs have been growing white miniature leaves- like the baby ones at the base of the nug, as they start to grow out the tips get white and curl down and the tops of the nugs can get a little white too, but not as much. Some of the leaves a bit lower on are super purple, and sometimes pretty unattractive shades of it, as if it were more indicative of a problem then a strain. Other leaves lover down are yellowing and getting some of these slightly mutated looking shaded, sometime even almost moldy looking, but not quiet, just slightly odd texture?

Things to note: 1. They've been through a lot. I have had fungus gnats pretty badly for a portion of the veg, short issue with spider mights, powdery mildew dues to power shortage, and even had the lights fall on half of them. 2. I was giving them a pretty uneducated mix a nutrients for most of their life (not completely destructive, just not perfect) and was probably overdoing it water with nutrients every water for the most part, until an odd smell came over the grow room, kind of oceany or mildewy, so i flushed the soil with nothing but hygroyzme for 2 weeks and switched to earth juice.

Thats about all i can think of, attached is a photo of the leaves, each is numbered to you can easily comment on specific ones! below I'm gonna try to post with some more photos of the buds :)

Much love and thanks in advance!

BDB
 

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BDB Budz

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#2
Photos below!
 

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Monster762

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#3
BDB Budz said:
Hey guys! Brand new here, this will be my first post other than an introduction! But i got a problem thats driven me here, and its been bothering me for awhile. First my set up:

Set up: If it works ill upload some pictures to give you an idea, but i built a grow room in the once 'breakfast room' of my studio apartment! I put up and auxiliary, reflective foam wall, a beam, and a door. Inside (just recently) I've built a two-level wooden structure on wheels to open up the possibility of cycling crops, flower on bottom, veg on top. I have 20 cuttings from the current cycle in their flowering stage as i wanted to try out monster cropping, what ever, if anything, survives is whats going on top but thats besides the point. I have 3 P600 Platinum LEDs (600 watts LED = 800w HPS) about 7-8 inches away from them running veg + bloom settings on. The plants are in 2 or 3 gallon pots, I'm not sure which but they're also all trellised out about 3 ft tall, so i can't take em out to look. I don't know what the strain is, i think its two different, I did get it from a dispensary but just forgot because where I'm from weed didn't have strains in this way and I'm just getting use to this.

Nutrient: Had been using a recommended blend of Botincare and various other, probably irresponsibly balanced in nutrients until about 3 weeks ago when i flushed for 2 week then begin using a combination of earth juice products- Cat, Micro, Grow, Bloom, Hi-Brix and then Hygrozyme. I've only watered with that mix 1 time (last time) and i mixed it according to the bottle, shooting for their 'medium' and 'strong' suggestions.

Problem: Please look at the attached photos for the best description, i picked various leaves with a various problems I've been seeing, or perhaps different expressions of the same one. These were the more extreme examples i could find from the 12 plants, mostly from the back row closest to the standing A/C unit. To give a written description, certain nugs have been growing white miniature leaves- like the baby ones at the base of the nug, as they start to grow out the tips get white and curl down and the tops of the nugs can get a little white too, but not as much. Some of the leaves a bit lower on are super purple, and sometimes pretty unattractive shades of it, as if it were more indicative of a problem then a strain. Other leaves lover down are yellowing and getting some of these slightly mutated looking shaded, sometime even almost moldy looking, but not quiet, just slightly odd texture?

Things to note: 1. They've been through a lot. I have had fungus gnats pretty badly for a portion of the veg, short issue with spider mights, powdery mildew dues to power shortage, and even had the lights fall on half of them. 2. I was giving them a pretty uneducated mix a nutrients for most of their life (not completely destructive, just not perfect) and was probably overdoing it water with nutrients every water for the most part, until an odd smell came over the grow room, kind of oceany or mildewy, so i flushed the soil with nothing but hygroyzme for 2 weeks and switched to earth juice.

Thats about all i can think of, attached is a photo of the leaves, each is numbered to you can easily comment on specific ones! below I'm gonna try to post with some more photos of the buds :)

Much love and thanks in advance!

BDB
Click to expand...
Neem oil for bugs.you should drench roots and polish leaves not spray buds. And get fungicide3 from Walmart. $5 each bottle. Neem is pure so you will need to dilute it. What is the temp and humidity? And how far are you into flower? Looks to me like you're almost getting near done.
How close and how powerful is the led? It looks close to me.
 
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Monster762

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#4
I had bleaching with 600w led close so I moved it to over 4 ft from canopy. The leaves bleached even worse. Tips looked burned and curled. It was bugs at my root system. Neemed their ass n plants did a 180. People still tell me I'm crazy n say that fungus gnats don't kill plants. I watched 9 of mine die to them bastards. Common or not those gnats are dangerous once they get in the soil. And a drench with neem won't hurt the plant. But how far are you from finishing is the question. And I also hear about neem affecting taste but I've been told by people I trust not internet people that the neem don't effect taste either. I'll find out cause I stopped using it and gnats came back. I used it again they were gone a day later. I'm sticking with the neem.
 
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Monster762

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#5
Monster762 said:
Neem oil for bugs.you should drench roots and polish leaves not spray buds. And get fungicide3 from Walmart. $5 each bottle. Neem is pure so you will need to dilute it. What is the temp and humidity? And how far are you into flower? Looks to me like you're almost getting near done.
How close and how powerful is the led? It looks close to me.
Click to expand...
My bad I see the led specs listed. 7-8 inches is too close. If I remember right aren't they supposed to be " quality led panels"? I'd have any led at least 12-18 inches away. Just cause it don't feel hit don't mean it won't be too much for the plant. Led is tricky that way. And is your soil drying out?
 
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Dan789

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#6
Welcome @BDB Budz, first thing, your lights at 7-8 inches are too close. Back them off to at least 12-18 inches. Secondly, what do you have for circulation and exhaust for your room?
Then what have your temps been lights on, lights off, (at the canopy level)?
Are you sure the bugs are gone? In that new second to last pict, those washed out leaves (that look white) are really burnt, either by the lights of overfeeding.
In the second new pict, the bud that has the leaves that are purple with one that's shriveled, that's something else, some type of bug, unless the fixture was close, very close to that leaf.
Wha is your RH in the room?
Without more than the small circ fan pointing up from the floor, that's not enough circulation. If when you had the PM, the door was open to the rest of your apartment, those PM spores could be all over, and ready to repopulate your grow and not the lesser, your lungs.
I wish you luck, but you've got some obstacles to overcome.
 
Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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BDB Budz

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#7
Monster762 said:
My bad I see the led specs listed. 7-8 inches is too close. If I remember right aren't they supposed to be " quality led panels"? I'd have any led at least 12-18 inches away. Just cause it don't feel hit don't mean it won't be too much for the plant. Led is tricky that way. And is your soil drying out?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice boss, yeah i just moved em up to a foot away from the tops, gonna see how that is and raise more if necessary but I'm kind of running out of room after that. As far as the bugs, i see some fungus gnats now and then, they come in waves for me. After first infestation they got into the rest of my apartment so every time i get em all they just come back noticeably after bout a month. I dont think they are the problem, especially if you and Dan are saying the LED's are definitely too close. Im gonna see if this fixes them up pretty good and make sure to keep an eye on the fungus gnats. Thanks again
 
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BDB Budz

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#8
Dan789 said:
Welcome @BDB Budz, first thing, your lights at 7-8 inches are too close. Back them off to at least 12-18 inches. Secondly, what do you have for circulation and exhaust for your room?
Then what have your temps been lights on, lights off, (at the canopy level)?
Are you sure the bugs are gone? In that new second to last pict, those washed out leaves (that look white) are really burnt, either by the lights of overfeeding.
In the second new pict, the bud that has the leaves that are purple with one that's shriveled, that's something else, some type of bug, unless the fixture was close, very close to that leaf.
Wha is your RH in the room?
Without more than the small circ fan pointing up from the floor, that's not enough circulation. If when you had the PM, the door was open to the rest of your apartment, those PM spores could be all over, and ready to repopulate your grow and not the lesser, your lungs.
I wish you luck, but you've got some obstacles to overcome.
Click to expand...

Hey Dan, thanks so much great questions. first, i backed the light off on you and monsters advice, they're at a foot now but can been raised further if the buds dont shape up. temps are low, between 62-69 if I'm not doing anything n the room, swings a little more if I'm doing things where the doors kept open, but not juristically. RH is room humidity correct? last time i checked it was around 50% i think, can get a dehumidifier if its critical but would rather not. Far as fans go i got three on three corners at canopy level, just took the fan down for photo idk why. Also have the window A/C (i have 2 A/Cs in there) right at the level between the lights and the canopy cooling things off.

I think the problem was the light considering both you and monster were saying they were too close, just hadn't seen pics that looked like that from light burn really? who knows...
 
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Dalai.Lama

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Aug 15, 2017
#9
Oh my that purple
 
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BDB Budz

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#10
Dalai.Lama said:
Oh my that purple
Click to expand...

does it look healthy to you? Like jus the strain? Or does it look sick... i have so little relative experience with plants lol
 
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MW7945

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#11
Those lights put out a LOT of par. I'd even back them away to 24 inches. They're kind of expensive, but a PAR meter really is a really great tool to have. I think I dropped around $150 for mine.
 
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BDB Budz

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#12
Hey! I thought i'd pop back in to resolve this thread! So aside from the obvious light burn and fungus gnats, there was another problem, one i still dont entirely understand, but at least did successfully identify the source of. While i was trying to let the 12 from this post finish their flowering, i started 12 more up top! I was documenting the grow very well, id germinated the seeds in various methods then planted in 2 different soils to see the difference, one of which was the same soil from the same bag as was used to fill the pot for the flowering 12's final transplant! So! What happened? Every single seed planted in that same older soil grew slower at an exponential rate until they wilted and died like in the photo. The 3 on the right followed suit soon enough, despite my best efforts to save them. I was extremely discouraged after my last crop just getting worse and worse and now 70% of my new crop dead. To make matters worse, the remaining 6 in the healthy soil began to show similar symptoms to what the then flowering plants where expressing. Very odd to me, i know very little about the finer details of this all, but i just knew the soil was was the root of the problem and that it some how contaminated my entire original crop as well as majority of the start of my new! So i harvested the flowering 12 because they'd showed no signs of improvement, i tossed all the dead seedlings + their soil in the trash and then dipped the surviving seedlings in H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) 30% to sterilize (that works right?) and moved back into the grow room. Well it ended up being tremendously effective, and i got further confirmation that the soil was the problem. I started digging through the big pots of the harvested plants, as expected they had strong well formed root balls in the internal area of the original pot, but once the dirt changed into what it was transplanted into (the problematic dirt) the roots were almost no where to be found, they shot right through it and began to pool, overgrown at the bottom causing what I'm sure was some rot, and not getting the majority of the available nutrients in the pot. While this was surely in part to do with the soil structure i believe there was some sort of disease playing a role as well, and that is because of all the discoloration! So! Not only did the first crop, as pictured in the origin post, begin to grow discolored once transplanted to the problematic soil, the 6 healthy seedlings that were simply in the same tray as the problematic soil began to develop discoloration as well. Some of this can certainly be attributed to light burn (yes, i have a problem) but i backed them off quickly and there was also discoloration beyond whitening of the tips. So where are things now? The new 6 have bounced back beautifully, most have been topped and had their LST started, and I've transitioned to a Timber DIY light set up! I have another set of 12, and then another 18, all of which i intend to start journals on! I will link below once began :)
 

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PlatinumTom

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#13
If you have any white tips, and the rest of the plant isn't having any problems it may be a good thing according to this article:

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabi...=email&utm_campaign=B2C+NEWSLETTER+2017-08-09

Basically thricomes on top of thrichomes on top of thrichomes!
 
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MW7945

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#14
PlatinumTom said:
If you have any white tips, and the rest of the plant isn't having any problems it may be a good thing according to this article:

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabi...=email&utm_campaign=B2C+NEWSLETTER+2017-08-09

Basically thricomes on top of thrichomes on top of thrichomes!
Click to expand...

Not quite the case here...
 
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BDB Budz

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#15
PlatinumTom said:
If you have any white tips, and the rest of the plant isn't having any problems it may be a good thing according to this article:

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabi...=email&utm_campaign=B2C+NEWSLETTER+2017-08-09

Basically thricomes on top of thrichomes on top of thrichomes!
Click to expand...

Yeah... no. The Platinum lights were horrible by the way. I sold them all on Craigslist to buy Timber lights which have preformed spectacularly in comparison on my current grow. Do not waste your money on lights like that, dont even buy them used, its a good part of the reason my grow looked like such shit.
 
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Organikz

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#16
PlatinumTom said:
If you have any white tips, and the rest of the plant isn't having any problems it may be a good thing according to this article:

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabi...=email&utm_campaign=B2C+NEWSLETTER+2017-08-09

Basically thricomes on top of thrichomes on top of thrichomes!
Click to expand...
No this wrong on so many levels...wtf. they are convincing people to uv burn their plants...are u kidding me? So I should reduce my yield by half to get a cool white bud? C'mon man...


@BDB Budz
What you are seeing is called senescence. Every fall the leaves turn different colors. Cannabis is an annual. When plants finish off they fade to different colors. Purple, maroon, yellow, red, blue. It's caused by mass sugar translocation. It's the plants way of purging every last drop to feed flowers and seeds. When ypu harvest all fan leaves should have died off. Hairs should have receded into swollen seed bracts.

Having the lights too close even though not showing immediate damage can cause senescense to occur a bit more rapidly.
 
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BDB Budz

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#17
Organikz said:
No this wrong on so many levels...wtf. they are convincing people to uv burn their plants...are u kidding me? So I should reduce my yield by half to get a cool white bud? C'mon man...


@BDB Budz
What you are seeing is called senescence. Every fall the leaves turn different colors. Cannabis is an annual. When plants finish off they fade to different colors. Purple, maroon, yellow, red, blue. It's caused by mass sugar translocation. It's the plants way of purging every last drop to feed flowers and seeds. When ypu harvest all fan leaves should have died off. Hairs should have receded into swollen seed bracts.

Having the lights too close even though not showing immediate damage can cause senescense to occur a bit more rapidly.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the informed response! Thank you! Didn't know any of that... gonna do some googling! have a good one chief
 
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Started Aug 12, 2017
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Forum Advanced Techniques & Problems

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