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koolwhip
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Awesome! Thank you for starting a new thread. This should prove to be a great resource for a bunch of the newer rockwool growers. Sounds like you've some good experience thus far, though are losing control around mid-flower.whattup Dirtbag? New here. First post. Good to know these threads are alive and well.. been years. I recall your name from scrolling thru doing research of late.
I am a year in running a drain to waste system using Rockwool (Hugos) and drip irrigation. still not dialed and frustrated. knew nothing about drybacks, crop steering and how sensitive and easy to overfeed Rockwool is. quite a learning curve and I do know my way around a garden.
my system pushes 35ml per minute per stake. I run 3 stakes equating to a 105 ml shot size. I do lights on for two hrs followed by a 1 min / 105ml irrigation every hr. (four hrs, four shots) until a 5 min flood. total feed is 9 min. = 945 ml daily feed. 20 % runoff is 190 ml. has worked decent with other runs and been tweaked plenty. seemed alright wk 1-3 thru stretch then was drying a bunch, increase feed, tweak, blah blah blah then fucked!!
QUESTION:
1.) should shot size be tweaked throughout cycle? saw a fella here suggesting 2% veg, 3%stretch, 4% flower, 6 % late bloom
2.) shot size frequency to achieve proper dry back?
3.) shot frequency schedule?
does shot frequency change weekly? - every hour until flood at midday -vs- every other hour for example.
would I increase that 105ml /min feed (3%) every hour to a 210ml / min. (6%) every other hour possibly? in late flower?
recap: lights on at 4:00, 1 min., 105ml shot at 6;00, 7:00, 8:00, 9;00, then a 5 min./ 525 ml flood at 10:00. lights off 4:00.
I feel like I'm so close to unlocking the key. I only run 3, 4 x 8 tables. 28 in each ( 4x7). two fluence spyders over ea. I just can't see needing a grosense or troll master water content reader or such. when did growing a weed become so difficult? its simple, a fuckin weed for shits sake!
any help would be appreciated. if not your cup of tea please forward to anyone you feel can help break the code.
thanks in advance and be well brother.
if I were to dryback to a plant tipping over extreme, I would have likely ruined my medium and created an anaerobic environment correct? thus encouraging a slew of issues inside my Hugo block. Severe EC increases, pH decreases, salt build up, etc...This is wonderful info. @tobh. Appreciate your thoughtful reply.
What is/are your baseline shot size(s)? in volume / percentages if possible?
Pardon my ignorance, define difference between replenish shots (stack feed?) and maintenance shots (maintain EC?)??
Can we say that schedule will be broken into thirds to some degree?
1.) wk. 1-3 = stretch = 2 hr. dryback, 3 % shots every half hr. for 3- 4 hrs. (or until we have stacked feed and achieved daily run off of 20%) then dry back remainder of cycle (more dry backs)
2.) wk. 3-6 = plump = 2 hr. dryback, 2% shots every hour on the hour until feed is stacked and achieve daily 20% runoff, less drybacks...
3.) wk. 6-8 = swell is finished / dry back / stress = return to wk. 1-3 schedule to encourage stress and ripening
4.) wk. 8-9 = flush
many folks suggest achieve drybacks until the medium is light and almost tipping over. seems way too much and harmful to medium. the difference between the field capacity of a HUGO
(approx. 80% moisture retention) and ideal moisture after dryback ( 35-40 %) leaves a subtle / fair amount of weight to the medium. I have possibly dried back too much and compromised my medium at times. more to follow..
In my setup, baseline shot size deposits ~150ml per site per one minute interval. That equates to right under 3% of media volume for a 4x4 delta block + unislab if my math is correct. Been a while since I calculated that out.This is wonderful info. @tobh. Appreciate your thoughtful reply.
What is/are your baseline shot size(s)? in volume / percentages if possible?
Pardon my ignorance, define difference between replenish shots (stack feed?) and maintenance shots (maintain EC?)??
Can we say that schedule will be broken into thirds to some degree?
1.) wk. 1-3 = stretch = 2 hr. dryback, 3 % shots every half hr. for 3- 4 hrs. (or until we have stacked feed and achieved daily run off of 20%) then dry back remainder of cycle (more dry backs)
2.) wk. 3-6 = plump = 2 hr. dryback, 2% shots every hour on the hour until feed is stacked and achieve daily 20% runoff, less drybacks...
3.) wk. 6-8 = swell is finished / dry back / stress = return to wk. 1-3 schedule to encourage stress and ripening
4.) wk. 8-9 = flush
many folks suggest achieve drybacks until the medium is light and almost tipping over. seems way too much and harmful to medium. the difference between the field capacity of a HUGO
(approx. 80% moisture retention) and ideal moisture after dryback ( 35-40 %) leaves a subtle / fair amount of weight to the medium. I have possibly dried back too much and compromised my medium at times. more to follow..
It's not necessarily creating an anaerobic environment -- that's more controlled by your inputs (hopefully sterile). The major consequences are the microstructures in the wool will be damaged and you'll see a massive spike in EC and pH will do all kinds of crazy things as well. It's best to avoid dry backs higher than 45%.if I were to dryback to a plant tipping over extreme, I would have likely ruined my medium and created an anaerobic environment correct? thus encouraging a slew of issues inside my Hugo block. Severe EC increases, pH decreases, salt build up, etc...
I have noticed a pattern with run off - higher EC = lower pH. Lower / more appropriate EC = higher, stable pH. I recently had some crazy run off numbers and blocks remaining too heavy. Flushed with normal feed solution (2 EC, 5.8 pH) for 10 min. Numbers got better. Flushed another 10 min. and damn near achieved same out as in feed. Light bulb moment... The craziest part is I figured that saturated block would take at least 2 days to dry and it was ready the next day! As if I flushed the salts, maybe unlocked something and reset the block. Any merit to this?
My brain is fried, I shall pause for now and see what feedback this warrants.
Thanks again.
So a maintenance shot is simply to maintain max WC and consistent EC for the remainder of the lighting cycle. That's why it's defined as a maintenance shot and the drybacks are longer between each maintenance shot and each maintenance shot is smaller than the replenishment period.man, you are something else. Thorough and patient. Much appreciated.
Maintenance shot defined? I'll assume it is to maintain EC or happy balance in block? So its no different in execution per se just different in definition or purpose??
I thought your feed schedule was referencing 'veg cycle' as pre flower. Gotcha. It seems like crop steering is another name for 'head fucking' your plants. As if your feeding it opposite of its cycle or what logic would imply. Your switching back to a veg schedule (wk.4-6 ish) when you want your flower to generate fat chunk? So to use your analogy, is your plant then essentially saying " fuck, I'd better throw chunk before I switch back to veggin"??? Any logic or merit to that? Whoa...
Furthermore, by switching back to a generative feed while ripening and crossing the finish line, your 'head fucking' / stressing your plant to hurry up and finish before we...?? start generating flower again?? something like that??
Had no idea this process would be so complex. Curious what a successful Keep. It. Simple. Stupid. approach would look like vs the crop steering approach. Tricky shit for sure. Helluva learning experience and I'll be better off on the other side once code is broken. Humbling as well. Definitely wiser through endless failures and adjustments.
But like they say, 'if you ain't failing, you ain't trying"!!
Happy Sunday Sensei
You take a plastic syringe; i use one that came with some children's tylenol, and press it against the base of a block/slab and extract some of the solution from the media. Deposit that sample into a cup, and repeat for each unit in the grow so you have an average sample. Then you measure the EC of this total sample. You can also do the same thing individually, for instance if you have one plant that's unhappy and need to rule out an issue in that particular site's media.would you be so kind as to explain this syringe test dealio?
So, each shot ideally will be 3%-5% of total media volume in generative schedule, 5%-7% in vegetative schedule. I try not to speak in terms of actual volumes I run as each environment's parameters are going to vary slightly. However, at run-off target, you want at least 10% run-off. Any more and it's wasteful, any less and you're likely not flushing out the excess EC and resetting the media pH to a happy level.@tobh, quick question.. After lights on, you slowly bring the media back to max WC over the course of a few hours, got it. Once max WC is achieved, you run approx .75L of feed (vegative schedule) through the media to flush the built up EC? Is this correct? Is there a magic number for the run off target here?
Also, when stacking the feeds prior to reaching max WC, is this basically a trial and error thing or is there a clever way to calculate this?
Great info in this thread!
Thanks brother. Right now my lightbulb's dimmer is slowly being turned up. This shit made minimal sense a day ago. LOL. Excellent write-up. I have plenty of time between this run to get a decent irrigation strategy/understanding in place so that i'm not completely lost from the start.Let me see if I can find the graphs that really were like lightbulbs for me regarding all this. It's helpful to see the graphs and compare them to the schedules while wrapping your head around the how's and why's.
I see what you did there!IN conclusion, possibly considering flipping your shot % around may unlock something for you?
Something that may be of interest to you on Amazon-Here are some that are similar to the ones that turned on thefor me.
This is what a full cycle looks like:
View attachment 1206124
Start to first run off:
View attachment 1206123
Run-off to last irrigation:
View attachment 1206125
And last irrigation to next morning:
View attachment 1206122
When looking at these charts every low point in the WC line would be when a fertigation event happens. These would vary between generative and vegetative schedules, but these charts show a baseline of what should be happening. I don't have a timer that allows so many events otherwise if one graphed my schedules, they'd be almost direct replicas of what the charts indicate.
@tobh - FYISomething that may be of interest to you on Amazon-
NEARPOW multifunctional programmable timer, 19 on/off programs and does seconds increments. $17
You may be able to tweak your feed schedule with 19 schedules vs 8. FYI.
hope alls well and thanks again.
good looking out. that's definitely a MUCH better option. with more events, you can dial things a hell of a lot better. eight events are fine, but i'm sure the performance could be significantly better with more events available.Something that may be of interest to you on Amazon-
NEARPOW multifunctional programmable timer, 19 on/off programs and does seconds increments. $17
You may be able to tweak your feed schedule with 19 schedules vs 8. FYI.
hope alls well and thanks again.
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