Need help with vac chamber from extraction experts

mikeb437 · Aug 2, 2012

Bought the 150 dollar vac chamber from extraction experts. For some reason i cannot get the vac high enough to purge the oil. Its also taking me several hundred pumps with the hand pump to get it at around 10 hg. It will hold a vac to where the top doesnt pull off but i cant get a strong vac. Is there air escaping? I read on another post that i might need to grease the flanges to make it air tight. Is that necessary with this product? Ive tried to contact extractionexperts for answers for weeks and they are worthless and useless!!!! They will not reply back at all. Can someone help me figure this out before i return this piece of shit??

Glab120 · Aug 2, 2012

my setup is deff not the best but it works well. i made this fourm to give people ideas how to make their own vac chambers. https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/diy-vacuum-pruge-station.49172/
maybe you can modify your setup but those hand pumps are useless.

Graywolf · Aug 3, 2012

I recommend a two stage electric pump. Even the electric ones won't pull a full vacuum until all the volatiles are boiled off and it is hard to keep up by hand, unless you have wrists the size of most peoples necks.

SCFSYNDICATE760 · Aug 3, 2012

u need to get the hand pump cradle...designed by yours truly....you can place the handle in it and then clamp it to something so you can use your palm or better yet your foot...while your free to do something else...
it could be its just to big...i dunno the largest ive filled w a hand pump was about a gallon of paint size...those clear acrylic containers w latch lid and the floppy oring...they work great...
doubt grease is nec....maybe?
make sure fittings are all snug obvious stuff....
plan b-spring for the 1-200 for a sucky pump thatll work fine for a while...
shit online used whatevs...
harbor freight....cheap
u spent on the chamber, much better off just grabbing pump...
for the record tho i did use one of those hand pumps, try a smaller chamber if u must use that....
maybe put a brick in it to take up more space inside and make it easier...
u can get those up to 25-27 maybe 28....full vac if its a really small chamber,....
but yea they take a long fuking time...
gallon size would take like 20 min to get to 26...
you dont HAVE to be at full vac if the stuff is viscous enough i think...
thats a theory....
im pretty sure its true cuz i have a digital vac meter and i can see sometimes you dont stay at 100% full vac and it still obviously vacs it....
anyone who says it cant or isnt vacing it at less than full vac is mistaken i think and im not sure how they would test that or really say it anyways....its not as efficient etc and takes a while but i think w heat and like 25 26 27 you can prob vac fine....w heat mind u....thats the issue w some chambers getting heat inside...
tiles work well and pizza stone..
happy blasting!

masterblaster

mikeb437 · Aug 4, 2012

Hows about the foodsaver jars? Could i purge my oil using that system? Dont know what they use to pull the air from those but maybe i can jimmy rig it to make it work. I really dont want to make one by hand and i only use the 10 gram tube so i dont need a big expensive setup. I returned the vac chamber to extraction experts for a refund. Their customer service never contacted me to solve my problem after numerious calls and emails. They suck!!

SCFSYNDICATE760 · Aug 5, 2012

really simple bra...
mason jar-
30$ mighty vac break bleeder set
secret hand pump clip in system from your truly
ur golden..
like u said u do small runs...no prob to purge w mason jar and a break bleeder..
throw it in hot water n vac away..

mikeb437 · Aug 6, 2012

Whats a secret hand pump clip in system?

SCFSYNDICATE760 · Aug 7, 2012

ITS A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT ENABLES YOU TO PUMP UP CHAMBERS EASIER...ALSO CAN DO IT HANDS FREE BY USING YOUR FOOT..ESP NICE IF UR DOING ALOT OF VACCING...
ILL SHOOT A PIC WHEN I GET BACK TO PAD....
WORKS GREAT THO...

jyip · Sep 27, 2012

jyip · Sep 27, 2012

SCFSYNDICATE760 said:
ITS A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT ENABLES YOU TO PUMP UP CHAMBERS EASIER...ALSO CAN DO IT HANDS FREE BY USING YOUR FOOT..ESP NICE IF UR DOING ALOT OF VACCING...
ILL SHOOT A PIC WHEN I GET BACK TO PAD....
WORKS GREAT THO...

so even with small runs ya think vac purge is the way to go then? ill jus ben purgin in hot water for alil bit, maybe 30 minutes or so,, and sometimes a couple feet up over stove top flame,,,not hot enuff to burn my hand for temp, again small 28 G runs only,,but i wanna do the vac purge,,, you you're sayin the hand pump w/mason jar will work ....

ok, heres the stupid question,,, how would ya get the oil out of mason jar,,,,,im guessin i woulda coillected it up ontoa piece a parchment paper while vac purgin it? thx for your time,,,,,oh, sic rig for blastin too, 4 tanes!

squiggly · Sep 27, 2012

The hand pump is your problem. Either:
1. Pick up a vacuum pump.
2. Pick up a vacuum aspirator nozzle attachment for your faucet (need reasonable pressure from the faucet).
3. Build a recirculating aspirator pump (submergable pump in a cooler that will push through and aspirator nozzle and draw a vaccuum--use cold water).

squiggly · Sep 27, 2012

SCFSYNDICATE760 said:
you dont HAVE to be at full vac if the stuff is viscous enough i think...
thats a theory....
View attachment 239371

It would work in reverse fashion to this--the less viscous the lower vacuum needed. The more viscous the higher vacuum needed (and thinner film).

Also worth noting that as you purge, the oil should increase in viscosity with each equivalent of butane/solvent that is removed.

sky_blue · Sep 29, 2012

#1 - You must be able to create a full vacuum for a few moments at the very, very least. I know people make use of some pretty inexpensive methods to extract/purge. But, to do it correctly, if you don't want to spend 4 hrs. on a 6 gram return, and you want a good product, get a good vacuum chamber (not the one you have), and a good vacuum. The easiest part of the whole process is making a vacuum if you have the right eqpt. - then you can start to create your own personal style of production. Cheap eqpt. makes crappy products.
BTW - for all the econo-growers, I know you can only use a milk carton and a 90w light bulb and get huge returns, (sarcasm), so this is for everyone else...

PS - get rid of the hand brake. And, don't buy a converted chili pot off Ebay for a vacuum chamber. If the chamber cannot handle whatever vacuum you extend, or if you introduce heat also, that thing will crumple, and the top will blow off whatever is above it. I think we don't see this on Youtube too often except for news clips, because it's a serious f-up. I'd love to see what it looks like, but the closest video I saw was a guy who blew off part of his hand - the police found parts of his hand on the ceiling/floor/wall of his garage, and of course, a good amt. of blood. I don't know what happened though, the news people only mentioned that he was making BHO, but their details were a little off...(he could have been using a tank of gas at a time..?)

BTW - Absolutely last thing, don't extract BHO method through a tube without creating a reaction so the most volatile amt of butane is released.
I saw a video on Youtube where a guy thought it was a great idea to extract about 5-6 pipes of extracted material b4 starting the reaction.
I wonder if he is still walking/breathing. Bad idea to keep that gas (which sinks and stays down without strong ventilation) sitting around just waiting to react (when you're not ready...).

Best of luck though. BHO is cool if done right, and safely.

sky_blue · Sep 29, 2012

Also, no offense to Squiggly, I'm not a chemist, but I've read and researched a lot of BHO failures and successes, and theorizing while using a high-quality "O", is a little wasteful to most people(not maintaining full vacuum. I have to theorize also, and I def. agree w/viscosity going down as butane/solvent decreases, but I really don't think that just because the oil is "relatively" less viscous (from a hand-brake concoction, I doubt it would be purged well at all), that the lower viscosity would necessitate less of a vacuum. Adding the brick to lower the volume inside the chamber, and increase the ability to pull vacuum is right on.
Anyone who reads this entire thread will know almost everything there is to know about doing BHO correctly. Building a circulating aspirator pump is not probably a great option for this guy. Simple is best when beginning.

squiggly · Sep 30, 2012

The chamber that he has (if its the one I'm thinking of) is a lab quality vacuum dessicator--and it can handle a full vacuum.

The oil becomes less viscous as you purge out solvent because the solvent dissolves it and makes it more runny--fairly simple there. You can think of what is happening as what happens in a pressure cooker. You're boiling the butane. The more violent the boil the more likely you are to pop the top. To blow up a pressure cooker--you need a certain amount of pressure (or you need the vessel to be too hot such that it becomes pliable and loses its shape). We aim to do both in this extraction--heat (to make the oil less viscous in the end) and pressure reduction to get the boiling effect. Boiling in this sense has the same force that we expect when we heat something up--when we combine the effects we have best results.

Butane is fairly happy to stay with a bunch of other non polar stuff--you really do need to pull a harder vacuum as it gets thicker--especially if you want to get rid of inclusion type impurities. I do have a bit of experience with this as getting rid of solvent is a day to day thing in the lab. I pump down any number of reactions per day and collect NMR spectra for them--I know what does/doesn't get solvents out, I promise :)

sky_blue · Sep 30, 2012

I think there's no doubt that you have the outlying science nailed down. My point (although lengthy) is that people are using sub-par equipment (if you look at the website the last guy referred to, their main product is a Bel-Art food dessicator, and although it can pull a full vacuum, it is not designed for BHO production. It's just a cheap way to try and get the quality results possible with good equipment.
If you would post info on using LNO2 (liquid nitrogen abbreviation?) technique to make BHO, that would be very interesting.
No one seems to be venturing into that science. All you'd have to purge is water, I believe, but I don't know that LNO2 is more/less efficient/effective.
***Good to have a scientist on board*** Thanks for your input.

sky_blue · Sep 30, 2012

I checked their website - Extraction experts - and their site does look better than it did. Their extraction pieces are nice, but here's a clip/paste of one of their pkgs. - perhaps what the guy on here is using. You can believe what they write on their website, but I don't know if it's all correct or not.

Their BHO purge kit includes:
Kit comes complete with a 8" x 150mm Scientific grade vacuum purge chamber-

Bel-Art Scienceware 420100000 Polypropylene Bottom Space Saver Vacuum Desiccator

(from their website) - Connects to any convenient vacuum source or a mechanical pump. Will withstand full vacuum.Shatterproof vacuum purge chamber will store and protect sensitive products. Will hold a full vacuum (29.9" Hg 75.9cm) at room temperature for 24 hours and remain airtight even if not under vacuum. Polypropylene stopcock with PTFE plug accepts 6.4mm (1/4") I.D. tubing and allows a controlled entrance of air preventing unnecessary turbulence. Flat-top clear polycarbonate dome top with large ribbed knob maximizes interior clearances and provides an average of 13% greater interior volume over standard hemispherical domes. A neoprene O-ring assures a tight seal down to 0 degrees Celsius without the need for grease (ring will not be harmed if grease is used.) Includes a 0.32cm (1/8") thick perforated plate. White polypropylene bottom. Can support High Heat Ceramic Plates

Hand pump attains and holds a vacuum of 27" Hg with just a few squeezes of the handle. Comes equipped with a gauge to monitor vacuum in both centimeters and inches of mercury. Has a pumping rate of 15 ml per stroke and gives 3 psi positive pressure at outlet point. Nozzle fits standard 1/4" tubing and includes 2 ft. of tubing.

If you call a reputable (non-BHO centered) business that deals in vacuum chambers and similar scientific eqpt., they will laugh you out the door if you tell them you're using a food dessicator w/a hand pump, and possibly introducing heat. I'd like to know how it can support a high-heat ceramic plate if the entire structure is polypropylene (plastic). It's a popular item though.

To everybody: If you are someone who actually makes good, correctly/adequately purged BHO - and uses these discount methods - Please post some info and pics. I'm skeptical.

I see all kinds of Youtube videos of numbskulls using cheap eqpt. just to be cheap.

BTW - BHO makers of the future - research the science of what you're doing. Do you know what it means scientifically to pull a full vacuum? Do you know how degrees of heat can weaken the vacuum chamber structure? I think there's a great # of total amateurs, very, very few people know what they're doing.

http://www.amazon.com/Bel-Art-Scien...1349016117&sr=8-1&keywords=bel-art+desiccator

sky_blue · Sep 30, 2012

PS - point being - a plastic food dessicator is NOT a "lab-quality vacuum chamber." Maybe in the ghettos of Zimbabwe, but...I think a scientist would laugh at that epqt.

squiggly · Sep 30, 2012

sky_blue said:
PS - point being - a plastic food dessicator is NOT a "lab-quality vacuum chamber." Maybe in the ghettos of Zimbabwe, but...I think a scientist would laugh at that epqt.

Dude, I'm telling you--this is EXACTLY the same model of dessicator we use to store salt plates for our IR specs in the lab. It pulls a full vacuum, which is the only requirement for purging BHO. Is it a bit small? Yes. However, that doesn't really matter--it does what it is supposed to do. There are, at this very moment, about 6 of these with a vacuum having been pulled on them for at least 4 years constantly in my lab.

They certainly ARE bullshitting about the hand pump being useful--it is not--but the dessicator is perfectly fine to use for this process. I'd stake my career on it.

As for LN2, I've only seen this used to freeze trim to extract hash from it (by freezing trichomes to make them very brittle.

So far as I know, LN2 won't work as an extraction solvent. I could be wrong on that, as N2 is a nonpolar molecule, but my guess is that the temp it's at would immobilize most of the actives we're after.

I suppose you could take N2 gas and compress it down--similar to a CO2 extraction, but I don't have the facilities to attempt this available to me.

sky_blue · Sep 30, 2012

I believe you...although I am surprised.
If this dessicator/vacuum is safe then, and can hold a vacuum for an hour at a time without the pump on, ----here's the big question --- based on your knowledge, could you hard-wire a hotplate into the vacuum chamber so that you could maintain your sample at an even temp. for terpene retention, say 120F, for an entire hour, and it would be safe? I spoke to the owner of a company that makes vacuum chambers, explained some of the basics, and he laughed when talking about using these Bel-Art things. He may have been biased, but he said it was inferior for anything other than short vacuum times w/small samples w/NO heat. He said extended heat of even 120F would eventually compromise seals or various components of the chamber --- which would lead to failure... He also mentioned hearing of people using glass jars and creating their own vacuums, and then putting them in hotwater baths for extended periods (ala Youtube). He thought that was pure stupidity and dangerous.

If you think he's wrong, maybe I'll try one of these Bel-Arts...
Do you think all those things above combined will be safe?

Need help with vac chamber from extraction experts

Need help with vac chamber from extraction experts

mikeb437

Glab120

Graywolf

SCFSYNDICATE760

mikeb437

SCFSYNDICATE760

mikeb437

SCFSYNDICATE760

jyip

jyip

squiggly

squiggly

sky_blue

sky_blue

squiggly

sky_blue

sky_blue

sky_blue

squiggly

sky_blue

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