Need old-timers help, getting over my head?

[stillsmokin]

Appreciate anyones input in advance,

My beans are ordered, everything is moving, and hey one of my partners is moving on.

Problem being was that he knew electrical, wasn't certified but could wire up one of those 220volt box things after installing couple circuit breakers (Does that even sound right? Haha) and had dealt with electricity thoughout his life.

So, fuck.

This setup will be done in a house, medical grow op.

We're using DD's system (a few tweaks of my own) but we want the 14k w/ 10 plants, 5-ton Split AC, 1/2 HP chiller, etc.

I've calculated it, and roughly we'll be using 26,000watts in total, but roughly only half of that will be in use 24/7, rest will obviously be on a 12/12.

We were planning on ordering one of these
http://www.hydroasis.com/hy/productdetail.aspx?id=2188&product=powerbox-dpc-15000

to handle the lights.

I guess what I want to know is (I'm not a first timer, just scaling up :banana1sv6: )

1) Can I have an electrician come in before hand, give him some general instructions on what kind of circuits/wires I need and than plug'n'play myself?

2) What electrical bits and pieces would I need to buy?

3) I am a fairly quick-learner, and shit before I started I couldn't keep a houseplant alive to save my life, now I'm a novice mr.greeenthumb, so I feel confident I could learn the basics of electricval safety/etc, but is this advisable? Fairly Safe? Any resources/books can you guys suggest?

Thank you for any help you could provide, never fun when plans change at the last minute. :thinking

 

[burnonedown21]

Your best bet is to pay an electrician to just set it all up. While it is possible to teach yourself and then do it ( I did) its not really worth it. If there is an accident your insurance could be voided because a licensed professional didnt set it up and with an electrician you can be fairly certain he is going to do it the safest and most efficient way. If your running more than one flower room you can set up your lights on a flipflop schedule to save some cash on ballasts and less electrical setup. Electric work is dangerous and its one of those things best left to professionals.

 

[Midnight_son]

Get some help

stillsmokin, Welcome to the farm. If you have no previous experience with electrical wiring, you should get an electrician to do it for you. It's not worth burning down a house or worse yet getting electrocuted. Good luck to you.

 

[stillsmokin]

Not doing multiple flower rooms, scaling up like I said earlier so want to utilize all the ambient light power of 14k, and not split it up into 2 x 6or7k setups.

I still have a healthy paranoia about letting outsiders do any sort of work for me.

So, what would I need to ask the electrician to setup? Like, hey Mr. Electrical guy, I need a 200amp service setup and this wire needs to however many gauges and split into a breaker.

Basically, what do I ask him that I need for this type of setup, so I can just plug in my lightbox into one of those big dryer plugs, and plug in the rest of the stuff.

I was thinking I could tell him I'm installing a kiln in there, since they have similar power usages. And I've always wanted to get into pottery :P

 

[Midnight_son]

You are gonna need 70amps for your lights running them on 220v. That means two 40 or 50amp dryer outlets and two of those controllers you are looking at. Someone may make a larger unit, idk. You will also have to have a couple circuits for fans, pumps, ect. Oh, don't forget about the cooling. You will need a 40amp circuit for that. As far as what to tell a sparky, idk I always do my own electrical work. :smoke

 

[RMCG]

If this is in a house, what is your main service? 200A? 150A? Find that out first.

I would suggest doing 16 lights on the panel vs 14 (just sockets, doesnt mean you need to add 2 more k).

Figure out exactly what is going to be on your panel, what is 120(pumps, fans, etc.) and what is or can run on 240 (lights, chillers, dehueys, etc.).

Decide what needs constant power and what needs to be on a timer(s) (other than lights).

Determine your entire amp load, add 30% (20% headroom + 10% goof). Don't want to plug in a shopvac and pop your panel.

Hit these guys up here with what you need:

http://www.nowirenuts.ca/

Depending on how far away your main is from where you want the sub, it ~may~ be cheaper to do 2 panels. Plus it gives you some additional flexibility.

If you are tight on amps, consider a flip flop. Not necessarily 2 rooms (if you don't have the space), but just firing alternate lights every 2 hours. Some are having decent success with that.

As far as someone running the feeder, did your partner and you split on good terms? Might just pay him to do the work, if you trust his stuff.



Other than that, look around for contractors on craigslist, tell them you are setting up a woodshop in your basement and just need something run for now until you get the rest of the equipment and will call him back up to wire up a sub. Don't obviously.

Might require permitting though.

 

[stillsmokin]

From what it sounds like, it's better to have the electrician come in. We left things on good terms, we're still friends but the working relationship is not what it should be. I do the work day-to-day, he helped set-up the original grow, which I quickly took over and started improving.

Now, this may seem dumb but a sub-panel, is simply another panel like the one you see in most apartments/houses that have the circuit breakers right? So by installing a 'sub-panel', I would be having the electrician install another one of these in a different part of the house, would I than attach the Load-Center (from nowirenutes) to that sup-panel and connect the lights to that? Or would the electrician need to wire/connect this load-center to this additional sub-panel?

I'm looking at several properties right now, but because of timing issues I'll be renting for about a year (no more). Will this be an issue for me? I've been looking for bigger McMansion style homes with the assumption that they'll already have a 200a service hooked-up, but as I'm looking at the houses, anyway I can tell by just looking at the circuit-breaker box thing? Will installation of a bigger service be an option? Say it's 150a and I want to go to 200a, or from 100a, etc. Completely house dependent type thing where whatever wires are laid in the ground, is what you're stuck with? Or is it fairly easy for a contractor to bump up the juice?

I'll get to work on the 120volt vs 240volt thing right away and bring some charts in here. I'm still a little un-sure of how many floor-blowers I'll need, which is really the only 'if' power wise at this point, I was thinking of running 1 for every 3 vertical cool tubes (the shorter 18" guys from hydrohut), but I'm afraid of back-pressure and well having enough air moving to cool them.

 

[stillsmokin]

Also, forgot to add a quick question.

Because I'm all about supporting the hard-working community, and also self-install (hooray!) I'm gonna go with the 5-ton ExcelAir Stealth unit, which according to their website uses 32.9 amps. Will that require a separate 'sub-panel' and should I have the electrician wire that up? Or should that just be built into the load-center that the lights will be on? And if it does require a seperate sub-panel or whatever, should it be installed with the 30% margin of error thing and install it to 42~amps?

 

[RMCG]

Read this over, twice:



Should give you a general idea.

Getting upgraded service is a bigger deal. Look for a place that has 200A service.

Open the main panel, the breaker at the top will tell you.

If you are planning on living there, be prepared to 'do without' a few things.


The load center is the sub. You just need the electrician to run the correct size feeder(s) from your main to where your sub(s) will be. Pretty sure a respectable sparky isn't going to leave 'bare ends' or do it without permits though.

Perhaps have him terminate multiple 50A 'dryer' plug receptacles and get separate panels. Two for lights and one for other things depending on what your tally is.

NWN can put 6' dryer cords on the panel, so it would be plug and play.

Don't buy a panel until you know what you have to work with, what load you are going to put on it, etc.

 

[RMCG]

Also, forgot to add a quick question.

Because I'm all about supporting the hard-working community, and also self-install (hooray!) I'm gonna go with the 5-ton ExcelAir Stealth unit, which according to their website uses 32.9 amps. Will that require a separate 'sub-panel' and should I have the electrician wire that up? Or should that just be built into the load-center that the lights will be on? And if it does require a seperate sub-panel or whatever, should it be installed with the 30% margin of error thing and install it to 42~amps?

You will need a dedicated 40A circuit run to wherever your compressor is going to be.

Your McMansion might already have a central air unit in place, ie circuit already run.

 

[stillsmokin]

Thanks for all the info guys, I've been somewhat busy over the past few days so haven't gotten a chance to respond but needless to say thank you for all the info. I have a few more questions but if any of you guys are ever in the Pacific Northwest, beers/smoke is on me :)

Cheers'

 

[stillsmokin]

Ok, so here is where I'm at with the 120 vs 240 volt thing,

120v
3 x 70pt Dehumidify @ 850 watts = 2550
1 x 1/2hp Water Chill @ 540 watts
2 x 1800 GPH Pump @ 145 watts = 290
2 x 1200 GPS Pump @ 110 watts = 220
1 x hiBlow Air Pump @ 71
= 3671 watts + 20% = 4405 watts

240v
1 x 5ton AC System @ 8000 watts
1 X Max Fan @ 332 watts
1 x Blueox 8 Burner @ (no idea, I assume it's 240, waiting for an email back)
16 x HPS 1K @ 1000 watts = 16000watts (two of these are veg lights)

So, next step.

What do I need to order from wirenuts? Can I just give them this information? The house is a 200amp house I found out, which is great! The main panel is in the garage, so I'll need to have an electrician come in and install couple 240v wall sockets downstairs in addition to what's already there (one 240v dryer plug). When he's installing these 240v sockets, I assume I need to specify in advance the max amperage/wattage that's going to be running through them right? So for example, the 16k light 240v socket needs to be rated for that much power correct? Or do the Wirenuts guys do their magic and the controller somehow makes that work regardless as long as it's a 240v dryer plug?

And than it seems like the only other big circuits I'll need the guy install is the 40amp dryer circuit for the AC system, possible one for the BlueOx burner.

But just in general, with a 200amp house service, I should be fine running these many lights w/o having to worry about turning on a microwave in the house, right?

 

[MASSES 420KING]

get an electrition in there to do all the wiring before any of your grow gear is near dont forget about prying eyes

 

[Jalisco Kid]

If you are buying the house just have it upgraded to a 400a service panel,cost about 2500-3000. You will have power for the future. JK

 

[antimatter]

- I would have an electrician build you 2 sub panels with dryer cords and each wired with 8x 240 volt receptacles running off a 50 amp T104 Mechanical Timer. Of course have the electrician run some #8 or #6 AWG size wire (4 wire) for your dryer outlets (each 1000w light at 240v will pull 4.166 amps for a total of 33 amps and you want the a wire size that will handle 40 amps if your running in conduit I would go to #6 AWG)

(I like sub panels with dryer cords and on a board so I can move them no problem)

(Make sure the receptacles are the ones that can plug in either | | plugs
or - - plugs)

- Then have another sub panel loaded up with 120 volt receptacles for plugging in fans and other random shit (untimed).

- Then have separate circuits for big stuff like AC, 240 volt heaters, 240 volt dehumidifiers etc.


Once again have an electrician do this.