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New operation - flooring material question

  • Thread starter Thread starter ChickenFeed
  • Start date Start date May 3, 2014
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New operation - flooring material question

ChickenFeed May 3, 2014 9 Replies 1,456 Views
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ChickenFeed

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#1
Good morning growers! This is my very first post on the forums and it's time to begin asking for advice from the seasoned growers. I've been tasked with completing cost projections and planning a commercial medical grow operation for a group of individuals in the US in a state that is not yet a legal grow state but will be soon.

My time frame for completing the project is to have the build out completed by the time the state is legal so the crops can be planted once licensing is finalized. Right now that's probably 12-18 months down the road. My previous experience is in the consulting world, having retired from a profession where I was hired to advice businesses on improving profit and decreasing defects, improving production, etc. (Ambiguous, I know, but I am capable of tackling on this project from that perspective.) My personal growing experience has been of the small scale, non-legal, indoor, soil based type beginning in the 1970's - 1990's. I may or may not be the head gardener once this project is up and running, but will most likely manage the operation for this group of individuals/owners.

After lurking here for many months and catching up on current industry standards, what's working for some and not working for others, it is time for me to throw myself into the lion's den (so to speak) and see if my ideas can withstand the critique of the professionals or if I have missed the mark totally and need to call in some reinforcements.

Where the project currently stands:

Property is available - and owned by one of the individuals who have hired me. The site is rural and was previously used in agriculture. Is currently zoned for commercial agricultural production.

Buildings are available but will need refitted for the grow out operation. The current building has a 40'x 300' foot print (12,000 square feet). It is equipped with water lines sufficient to refit into an indoor grow, natural gas heat and electric (not exactly sure of the system, but I believe it to be 3-phase) with an onsite diesel generator capable of supporting the farm's previous operation. I have another site visit scheduled for this afternoon to check the electrical system. My suggestion to the owners at this stage of the operation is to begin by refitting one building, there are multiple building available at this site, all identical in layout, with additional build outs to bring increased production online one building at a time once the production process has been tweaked to optimal performance in the first building.

My preliminary plan is to house an entire operation in each building - clone/mother room, veg room, flowering room, quarantine room, and drying/curing room to reduce labor and time moving product from building a, to building b, etc. This would be an indoor grow, in soil, pots vs. beds has not been determined at this point.

Soil and equipment for moving materials and plants are available and additional equipment purchases will be included in the budget. I haven't done the physical layout of the operation yet, that's the plan for next week, then I can begin the cost projections for lights, watering system, ventilation, electric use, etc. After those are complete will begin to look at build out of each specific room in the location and projecting costs per room, then labor and plants, etc.

The project owners have capital, experience in large scale growing operations (different commodity), the medical research field, business and law. Me, I'm the youngster and the low man on the totem pole so to speak - the let's make this happen person. I am not opposed to taking advice from others.

Here's today's question which may or may not (depending on the solution) add substantial cost to the project:

Flooring and sanitation: the buildings are set on a concrete block footer, framed in wood, with corrugated siding and roofing. Roof is currently insulated and walls extend approx. 4' up from ground with a 4' opening covered by hardware cloth (wire) and side curtains that can be rolled up or down to provide ventilation and temperature control. Above the side curtains there is approx. 2' of siding before the roof joists.

The floor of each building is approx. 18" below grade and is compacted clay and soil. Previous tenants of these building were living on 18"-24" of sawdust litter that would be removed and replaced as it became soiled. Each building is approx. 18 years old so the floor material is solid and compact, suitable for driving heavy farm machinery without problem.

I'm ready to evaluate flooring types - i.e. a modified greenhouse op using 30 gallon grow bags or pots vs. raised beds. I'm looking for advice on flooring material. Do I lay concrete to help control humidity and enable better control over sanitation and pest eradication or has anyone done an indoor grow on a floor similar to what I am beginning with here? I'm open to hearing the pros, cons and horror stories. Please share.

Thanks a million,

ChickenFeed
 
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Texas Kid

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#2
I would not spend one dime on build out until you know for sure that it is going to be zoned for the specific use you are talking about, the current ag zoning means absolutely nothing when it comes down to getting a facility zoned for large scale marijuana production and the county you are in may ban it all together so all your work and expense becomes a huge waste of time and money for everyone involved. I can also tell you that from your limited experience in commercial marijuana production, you are not the guy to be designing or giving any advice as to how to procede with the facility setup and operation, no offense but your talking about something you really don't have a clue about...these sound like chicken coops to me just based on the layout you are talking about and that is goin to be a huge expense to get retro fitted for your purposes..power all comes down to how many amps is already on site..for each 12,ooo sq.ft building you are going to need around 1500amps to handle the lights and hvac gear and generators are not going to work for you at all...concrete is your best place to start for you floor, 6" min with a series of floor drains if you can do it and still get your SUDP permit passed
 
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We Solidarity

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May 3, 2014
#3
i second the concrete and floor drains.

also have to say you will give yourself way more stress running each building as a stand-alone site. You need more schedules, supervisors, building expense, and time, which gets very very expensive. Trust me...anyone in your position would be stoked to have a veg facility with separate flower facilities...it's the way most of the big dogs do it in CO.
 
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ChickenFeed

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#4
Texas Kid said:
I would not spend one dime on build out.... until you know for sure that it is going to be zoned for the specific use you are talking about, the current ag zoning means absolutely nothing when it comes down to getting a facility zoned for large scale marijuana production and the county you are in may ban it all together so all your work and expense becomes a huge waste of time and money for everyone involved. I can also tell you that from your limited experience in commercial marijuana production, you are not the guy to be designing or giving any advice as to how to procede with the facility setup and operation, no offense but your talking about something you really don't have a clue about...these sound like chicken coops to me just based on the layout you are talking about and that is goin to be a huge expense to get retro fitted for your purposes..power all comes down to how many amps is already on site..for each 12,ooo sq.ft building you are going to need around 1500amps to handle the lights and hvac gear and generators are not going to work for you at all...concrete is your best place to start for you floor, 6" min with a series of floor drains if you can do it and still get your SUDP permit passed
Click to expand...

Texas Kid, no offense taken to your rather straightforward reply. You are correct in that I have no experience in designing a commercial grow operation. What I do have though is the ability to plan, give feedback to the folks who have contracted me and to hire resources where required. I am not the be-all and end-all of knowledge, and I know where my limitations lie. So, when it comes down to the planning and design of the operation, it won't be me doing the final design for production and grow out, it will most definitely be an experienced commercial grower who says "you want this here with this amount of area, I recommend these fixtures, this lighting system, timed this way, etc." My position at this stage of the game is a rough cost-benefit analysis and projections for the project.

If it "sounds like a chicken coop", that might be because this was a previous commercial chicken grow out facility. :wink: My professional experience is in design for manufacturability in a non-ag sector. Expense and permitting are not areas in my scope of responsibility for this project.

Concrete flooring was my gut control of run off and disease. Thank you.
 
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ChickenFeed

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#5
We Solidarity said:
i second the concrete and floor drains.

also have to say you will give yourself way more stress running each building as a stand-alone site. You need more schedules, supervisors, building expense, and time, which gets very very expensive. Trust me...anyone in your position would be stoked to have a veg facility with separate flower facilities...it's the way most of the big dogs do it in CO.
Click to expand...

Nothing has been set in stone about the operation at this time. That's why I'm here. Thank you for the ideas.
 
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Texas Kid

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#6
When you start looking at ac's your want to use a 5tons for every 12-15 fixtures which can really add up..the ac cost for my latest 15,000 sq.ft facility was $151,000 for equipment and installation so get ready because it is painful..water rights or access to good water is important as well, depending on the style of grow y'all decide on your water consumption can be pretty high..for costing out purposes I would start with what does 12,000sq.ft of concrete, around 100-120tons of ac, and 350 lights complete..because they structures are probably not suitable for roof top mounted units you'll have a little more expense in zones and ducting than you would if you could mount on the roof...7 four foot rows that are roughly 300 feet long with gavitas or epaps on 6' centers your looking at about 350 lights per 12,000sq ft building..so with that you are probably going to want about 2000amps of power per building..I would check with your local power company because that kind of power can real tricky and expensive to get installed..6500amps just cost us around $300,000 and took almost a year to get complete, that is just for the power company side of things and doesn't even include any electrical inside any of the buildings which will run you another $120,000-$150,000 depending on the code requirements and then another $150,000 for lights(uninstalled)..if I were just having to make a quick educated guess, your looking at $500,000 to $600,000 expense for each 12,000 sq ft flower building, maybe a little less but probably not..legal licensed facilities are required to comply with all state and local building codes so that gets expensive, just the drawings the architects, mechanical and electrical engineers required for permit submission will run you around $15,000 to $20,000 for your initial 12,000sq.ft. facility, you might be able to use the same set of drawing for multiple buildings so that may save you a little in the long run but not much in the boig scheme of things
 
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ChickenFeed

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Texas Kid, thank you! I think we are covered on current power availability. I'll be heading over to the site in about an hour to meet with the electrician and take some pics and measurements of the interior. My initial best guesstimate for refitting each building was about $500K including labor without concrete. Nine of the buildings onsite are identical with one having already been refitted with insulated sidewalls and a few other modifications - to the tune of 500K. More later, someone is at the door.
 
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HookedonPonics

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#8
Well, id start by setting yourself up a 12 - 20kw garden ASAP. One, so if this project comes to life in the future you already have mothers and a steady flow of genetics ready to flood out the room. Two, so you can start to learn on a smaller scale and see if your really up for something like this. (Most guys on here make commercial look easy, but they arent taking pictures of the blood an tears and decades of experience it took to get there) Second, id find the best MMJ attorney in your state and give him a fat ass retainer. You are light years away from being able to properly design a facility that size, the problems of a 60 to 100kw garden are night and day to a 6 - 20 light setup. Also dont put all your chips on the first run, budget for 3 runs so if something happens the first go around, your golden to make it back over the next two.
 
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Fresh Starts

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#9
I think that having a 6" concrete footing outlining floor is important so you don't rot any part of the walls when the floors get soaked from cleaning- you might know this but its worth the mentioning. I personally don't like corrugated siding for commercial productions because they lack security from my experience. Depending on your concern for odor, the walls should reflect a sound construction with that issue in mind. Out here we build walls with vapor barriers because of the high humidity so damage doesn't ensue. If I had my choice of wall construction (and i'm interested to hear what others think about this) I would want semi or full concrete walls.
 
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Ambre

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#10
You might find that cleaning the old chicken buildings enough to house the plants difficult. I raise chickens & other poultry, thankfully not at that scale! The chickens and the bedding both put out large amounts of dust. I have a plastic shed building that houses my brooder (for raising baby chicks until they are big enough to move outside). Every time I finish a batch of chicks (about 4-6 weeks depending on how warm it is outside), there is a layer of dust in the building that is at least 1/4" thick. I deliberately used a plastic shed for the brooder so I could empty it out between batches of chicks and hose the whole building down to get rid of the dust. That dust is very fine and can almost form a cement in areas where it is not cleaned thoroughly and it gets compacted.

Chickens also tend to have real problems with mites and other parasites; those can hang around for a long time. They probably won't bother your plants, but they can definitely munch on the people working in the buildings!

...and take every word from Texas Kid & the other growers above to heart!
 
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Replies 9
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Started May 3, 2014
Latest post Aug 13, 2014
Starter ChickenFeed
Forum The Planning Stages

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