New stuff from HI

Chillville · Oct 7, 2011

I got a catalog today from HI with all their new products, all kinds of cool stuff . They have a new chiller system called the chillking basic split system. Its got a standard outdoor condensing unit, looks like any other a/c that you see. There are DIY quick connect fittings on vacummed lines that hook to the condensing unit. The other end hooks up to a chiller coil mounted in a 55 gallon plastic drum INSIDE the grow room. I like that it is stealth and way more affordable than their commercial chiller line. Says it has all the same major components and with a 5 yr warranty on the compressor and 3 yrs on the pump. High efficiency condensing units and high efficiency pump is an option too. They sent me this pic of a 3 ton high efficiency unit being built.

They told me this 3 ton high efficiency with the high efficiency pump pulls less than 14 amps. I called BS so they sent me a pic of the amp meter, unit is around 12 and the high efficiency pump is 1.6 amps

5 ton commercial units are around $7,500 and the new units will be around $5,750 for the basic unit, high efficiency would be more no doubt.

Chillville · Oct 7, 2011

Coolest thing I've seen from them so far

Heat seeker is chillking's new line of DIY air conditioners. They have a hybrid a/c system that has an air handler that uses freon for the air handler and also has a chiller built in to it. So it uses an outdoor condenser just like any a/c system, has DIY vacummed lines with quick disconnects, and an indoor air handler. The air handler splits the freon so that it flows through it AND a tube in tube chiller coil (same type of evaporator as the 2 ton). I love this product, outside unit looks just like a standard a/c. This is the most efficient system you can ever buy I gurantee it. Hook the chiller up to some ice boxes or fresca sols and set the water to room temp for maximum efficiency. Use the freon evaporator to cool the room and to dehumidify. Before they were putting 2 tanks inside the commercial chiller and running 2 temps of water, one temp for ice boxes above dew point and 45 degree water to a water cooled air handler for dehumidification. This new system is way more simple and cost half as much. You can order up to 5 tons of cooling however you want to mix and match it...so a 1 hp chiller 4 ton a/c...2 ton chiller 3 ton a/c....3 ton chiller 2 ton a/c...4 ton chiller 1 ton a/c. This should cut down or eliminate the need for dehumidifiers I would think. Not supposed to be much more expensive than their regular 5 ton a/c system. I may have to switch over to this sytem myself. Price in catalog says TBD. I asked them to email me the pics in the catalog so I can post them but they didn't send them today.

ttystikk · Oct 11, 2011

Wow, that sounds awesome! I wonder what they might come up with in terms of routing heat to various places, as well as cool? For 7 months of the year, the majority of the US needs to heat their homes rather than cool them, so I'm thinking a unit to install in, say, cold air return for gas/forced air systems, or a heating coil in a hot water tank might have the interest of many. Heck, I'm scheming about some way to put my 2 ton chiller in my cold air return so I can use the heat it puts off to cool my house! I could put a serious dent in my heating bill that way!

Chillville · Oct 11, 2011

I wanted to mention that chiller above is a 3 ton high efficiency unit. What this means is that it has a 2.5 ton compressor and a 3.5 ton condenser. That chiller tested at 4 tons while only using 15 amps, unbelievable.

I think that is a great idea moving the heat around. There are a couple of ways to do it now but it would be nice if HI made it affordable and easy to do. Have you ever heard of a water-cooled chiller? You put the chiller inside becuase there is no condenser and no fans at all. It makes cold water on one side and hot water on the other..making a little more heat than it produces in cooling. Just an idea

seebobsled · Oct 12, 2011

that pump

Hey Chillville the first pic is the same pump I got with... 3 impellers to change flow volume. nice pump!!!

water wise guy · Oct 13, 2011

reclaiming heat energy

ttystikk said:
Wow, that sounds awesome! I wonder what they might come up with in terms of routing heat to various places, as well as cool? For 7 months of the year, the majority of the US needs to heat their homes rather than cool them, so I'm thinking a unit to install in, say, cold air return for gas/forced air systems, or a heating coil in a hot water tank might have the interest of many. Heck, I'm scheming about some way to put my 2 ton chiller in my cold air return so I can use the heat it puts off to cool my house! I could put a serious dent in my heating bill that way!

you can do this if using water jacket type water cooling like the fresca sols. all you have to do is run the water thru system and then have it plumbed to the house or desired area to be heated (i.e. house, greenhouse, shed) use a water cooled air handler or heat-x-tractors depending on the size of you set-up, this wil remove the heat from the lights and at the same time heat your house. there is a temp difference needed for this to work propperly of 10 deg. this means with your your at 70 the water will run at 80 or below with the propperly sized system. this is perfect for the fresca sols especialy in the winter you don't want them to run as cold as you do in the summer. this can also be ran to a heat-x-tractor placed in the garden area that is on a thermostat that comes on to keep garden from getting too cool in the winter months. remove the heat from the light source so they can be placed closer to canopy giving more usable lumens and adding heat at the bottom of the garden where it will rise to equalize the garden temp top to bottom. these systems can also be ran very well with floor heating pex style. simply run water from lights thru the tubing and this will heat house and remove heat from lights. options are endless as far as how you can use the heat to your advantage. i strongly suggest reclaiming the heat energy and using as much as you can. why just get rid of the heat from one area and then use more energy to create heat in another? also here in southern cal alot of peopl are running their lights thru their pool rather it be built in or above ground you can cool alot of lights with volumes of water such as these all for free and you have a heated pool 12 months of the year to boot. also a heated pool is a good reason for a higher power bill.

MTgrower · Oct 14, 2011

I love my HI setup. Absolutely love it. Great company with great products. I just want to know when they are going to release those AirStream Hoods. Gotta give one of them a try.

MTgrower · Oct 14, 2011

Chillville said:
I wanted to mention that chiller above is a 3 ton high efficiency unit. What this means is that it has a 2.5 ton compressor and a 3.5 ton condenser. That chiller tested at 4 tons while only using 15 amps, unbelievable.

I think that is a great idea moving the heat around. There are a couple of ways to do it now but it would be nice if HI made it affordable and easy to do. Have you ever heard of a water-cooled chiller? You put the chiller inside becuase there is no condenser and no fans at all. It makes cold water on one side and hot water on the other..making a little more heat than it produces in cooling. Just an idea

HI has water cooled chillers. I imagine they are incredibly expensive based on what I paid for my 5HP SC commercial chiller.

If you live in the arctic circle, they even have a chiller that has no compressor at all, and pulls 2 amps to cool up to 8 lights.

water wise guy · Oct 14, 2011

MTgrower said:
HI has water cooled chillers. I imagine they are incredibly expensive based on what I paid for my 5HP SC commercial chiller.

If you live in the arctic circle, they even have a chiller that has no compressor at all, and pulls 2 amps to cool up to 8 lights.

you are talking about the compressorless chiller, it is awesome it will give you 3 tons of cooling upto 10 degrees of the air temp you are pushing thru them. you dan't have to be in artic circle just in a place with cool climate or atleast at night. even here is southern cal we use them and run them at night. if it is 65 outside at night the unit will keep your water below 75 with up to 15 600w fixture running. i can only imagine how well they would work in real cold climates like MI and CO. oh yeah and they only run on 2 amps of 220 thats like 3 tons cooling for 1/10 of the powers usage and the units are cheap i think less than 3g to purchase and pennies to run, why doesn't everybody use them it even gets cold enough for them to work in the deserts at nights wneh it is not peak summer. best cooling device for the money by far cheaper to buy and cheaper to run, its a win win piece of equipment.

ttystikk · Oct 20, 2011

repurposing an old compressor section?

water wise guy said:
you are talking about the compressorless chiller, it is awesome it will give you 3 tons of cooling upto 10 degrees of the air temp you are pushing thru them. you dan't have to be in artic circle just in a place with cool climate or atleast at night. even here is southern cal we use them and run them at night. if it is 65 outside at night the unit will keep your water below 75 with up to 15 600w fixture running. i can only imagine how well they would work in real cold climates like MI and CO. oh yeah and they only run on 2 amps of 220 thats like 3 tons cooling for 1/10 of the powers usage and the units are cheap i think less than 3g to purchase and pennies to run, why doesn't everybody use them it even gets cold enough for them to work in the deserts at nights wneh it is not peak summer. best cooling device for the money by far cheaper to buy and cheaper to run, its a win win piece of equipment.

Waterwise, I am not endowed with large amounts of excess cash, so I've been thinking aobut hitting up some local HVAC companies for an old compressor section, a throwaway from someone's upgrade. I realize the original working fluid in something like that would have been freon, but why not run water (or a p. glycol mix) through the same lines? The unit already has the exhaust fan built in, it IS an old AC compressor section, so of course it looks like one, so what would be the downside of such an install?

Chillville · Oct 26, 2011

ttystikk said:
Waterwise, I am not endowed with large amounts of excess cash, so I've been thinking aobut hitting up some local HVAC companies for an old compressor section, a throwaway from someone's upgrade. I realize the original working fluid in something like that would have been freon, but why not run water (or a p. glycol mix) through the same lines? The unit already has the exhaust fan built in, it IS an old AC compressor section, so of course it looks like one, so what would be the downside of such an install?

That will work just fine but I would suggest having the a/c guys weld the copper for you. There are several lines (in most cases) that will have to be joined with a copper manifold. We aren't talking plumbing solder either, it will need to be silver soldered. Its kind of a pain in the ass but for sure can be done.

budfriend · Oct 26, 2011

So im so lost on what this is. could this cool 8k of lights without a minisplit and a sealed room? Would you have to be using water cooled lights?? Is that the only way. Is this use less electric than a mini-split? I know nothin about this but am interested.

thanks

Chillville · Oct 28, 2011

Basically if you take an old a/c consenser and run water through it you can turn it in to a heat exchanger. It must be cold to use it and it would cool water to be used for water-cooled lighting (fresca sol), Ice Boxes, coolcoils, water-cooled co2 generator (HydroGEN), water-cooled air handler, water-cooled dehus....all at the same time or just one.

The problems are
Finding a condensor in good condition with an operating fan cheap
Needs to be at least a 5 ton unit to get approximately 2.5 to 3 tons
Needs to have a condeser design that would allow proper water flow
Needs to have the in and out freon lines modified to accept water, this is not easy at all unless you are an a/c technician. Manifolds ususally need to be made for the supply side, copper maniflods
The fan should be set operate with a thermostat
The fan in all cases will be 240v

Basically that is what a chillking compressorless chiller is. It produces 3 tons of cooling while keeping the water around 5 degrees above ambient outdoor temperatures. It must be 55 degrees or colder outside for a properly made unit to fuction efficiently to cool Ice Box, cool coils,water cooled dehus, water cooled co2, and water-cooled lights. For using an air handler you will want it to be 40 degrees or colder.

ttystikk · Oct 31, 2011

Chillville said:
Basically if you take an old a/c consenser and run water through it you can turn it in to a heat exchanger. It must be cold to use it and it would cool water to be used for water-cooled lighting (fresca sol), Ice Boxes, coolcoils, water-cooled co2 generator (HydroGEN), water-cooled air handler, water-cooled dehus....all at the same time or just one.

Yep, that's the promise.

Chillville said:
The problems are
Finding a condensor in good condition with an operating fan cheap
Needs to be at least a 5 ton unit to get approximately 2.5 to 3 tons
Needs to have a condeser design that would allow proper water flow
Needs to have the in and out freon lines modified to accept water, this is not easy at all unless you are an a/c technician. Manifolds ususally need to be made for the supply side, copper maniflods
The fan should be set operate with a thermostat
The fan in all cases will be 240v

Thanks, this is an excellent check list of hurdles to overcome to find the right compressor section. Now, how hard would something like this be to find? Do I need to go to the Big City (Denver) and approach commercial HVAC companies, or can I find something like this in a relatively small town (100k pop)?

Chillville said:
Basically that is what a chillking compressorless chiller is. It produces 3 tons of cooling while keeping the water around 5 degrees above ambient outdoor temperatures. It must be 55 degrees or colder outside for a properly made unit to fuction efficiently to cool Ice Box, cool coils,water cooled dehus, water cooled co2, and water-cooled lights. For using an air handler you will want it to be 40 degrees or colder.

Would an old car radiator with a fan sucking air through it be at all effective as a cheaper substitute? I am looking for ways to *reduce* the load on my chiller, to save on the power bill.

Chillville · Oct 31, 2011

Look on craigslist for at least a 5 ton unit or contact an a/c installer and ask them for a unit they pulled out. Make sure to let them know that you don't need a good compressor...or any comrpressor at all. Keep in mind that they are worth around $100 just in scrap copper so its doubtful you will find one for free.

I don't think car radiators will work that well, honestly its nothing I have ever tested before so I couldn't say for sure.

Chillville · Nov 20, 2011

Here is a video link for the new products

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygyFR1WZlmg

ttystikk · Nov 20, 2011

You had discussed a highly efficient chiller system several months ago, and I ws wondering which one it was?

I have to thank you and everyone for helping me get my chiller system up and running. It's saving me so much money over standard AC, both in terms of cooling AND as supplemental heating for my house!

When I first saw the Icebox Pro (yesterday!), I about fell over- I just happened to have 8" maxfans and 8" Icebox units laying around several months ago, so I put them together because I figured that's how they were supposed to work!

By the way... that maxfan is PUSHING thru the Icebox Pro unit, isn't it? ;)

Chillville · Nov 20, 2011

The chiller in the video is the one I mentioned a while back. I think that you can just buy the metal stands from HI and build your own ice box pro, you would have to check with them to make sure.

:) yes its pushing air through...touche lol. OK this works fine for that type of setup since everything is inline, pushing air becomes a problem when its pushed in to the open cavity of the reflector. That's where it gets disrupted and causes resistance...good point though.

ttystikk · Nov 21, 2011

Chillville said:
The chiller in the video is the one I mentioned a while back. I think that you can just buy the metal stands from HI and build your own ice box pro, you would have to check with them to make sure.

:) yes its pushing air through...touche lol. OK this works fine for that type of setup since everything is inline, pushing air becomes a problem when its pushed in to the open cavity of the reflector. That's where it gets disrupted and causes resistance...good point though.

Yeah, I saw that after I re-read the thread. Thanks- although I'm still a bit confused about the dual tank vs. the 'super efficient' unit? What are the differences and how might I incorporate a unit like that into future growroom designs?

I am cheap- so I used the shiny thin duct tape to tape the maxfan to the Ice Box, drilled a hole for an eyebolt in the top, and then just hung the whole thing from the ceiling at an angle. Bonus install tip; use bungee cord material so that vibrations from the fan don't transmit through the floor joists you're hanging it from and carry a nasty buzzing noise to the floor above.

I would never recommend pushing cooling air through a hood; it gets too hot, which defeats the purpose. I would also hesitate to recommend using IceBoxes to cool hot air from hoods, unless there's no other feasible way to get rid of it. If that's the case, then use a more efficient open hood design such as an adjust-a-wing, and cool the air in the growroom as described above.

I'm sure someone is going to try and correct me, but I felt that having the fan upstream of the IceBox created a zone of slightly higher pressure and temperature, which increases the temp. differential going through the IceBox core. As the air passes through that restriction (minor though it is), the pressure drops back to ambient, and the resultant airflow is that much cooler than if it's done the other way 'round. That, plus I don't have to worry about condensation being sucked through my expensive maxfans.

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