phenotyper
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Pretty sure my issue was incomplete combustion due to wind in my rooms preventing the burners from lighting properlyI think it's either incomplete combustion from poor gas quality and also that weird residue buildup on the burners. I've made a few posts about this as well for propane burners. We have switched to bottled co2 a loonnnnnnggg time ago and the results have been fantastic.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM!Burners in small sealed rooms build up ethylene no matter natural gas or propane,its a by product of the combustion.You have a couple choices,get rid of the burner and switch to bottled or vent the room(not really sealed then).Tomatoes are indicator plants with ethylene,like a canary in a coalmine,put one in your room and if it goes downhill fast you know you have an ethylene issue.I hate burners now,when i ran my old 10k room it was dialed and then i put in a burner(2 Actually)and was fubared for over a year til i figured it out.and then there's the ethylene to worry about too...
I guess I should feel lucky I figured it had to be environmental and had read about people having issues here on the farm awhile back, so I vented the room to finish the first run and shut the burners down at the beginning of the second run.THIS IS THE PROBLEM!Burners in small sealed rooms build up ethylene no matter natural gas or propane,its a by product of the combustion.You have a couple choices,get rid of the burner and switch to bottled or vent the room(not really sealed then).Tomatoes are indicator plants with ethylene,like a canary in a coalmine,put one in your room and if it goes downhill fast you know you have an ethylene issue.I hate burners now,when i ran my old 10k room it was dialed and then i put in a burner(2 Actually)and was fubared for over a year til i figured it out.
I have the green air ir 42 burners and I think my problem is too many fans. The burners fail to ignite at times and when they do light the wind will blow out flames on part of the burner. I have been on the phone with green airs tech guy numerous times and have had a pro mechanical guy check the gas pressure and volume. No leaks and plenty of gas to run the unitsIf you can't completely take it apart and rebuild it properly you probably shouldn't be using a co2 burner - If you aren't comfortable working on your own furnace you shouldn't install your own co2 burner imo, they are def professional pieces of equipment more akin to a household appliance than just some grow gear. All the problems just described are user error and can be corrected 100%, I've used co2 burners for a few years now, four different locations. Currently running 10 individual co2 burners on natural gas without a single problem. I clean and leak test each unit between runs and am in the process of installing air quality controls and alarms in case of leaks, which honestly has never happened before.
I read something u wrote about this awhile back and it makes perfect sense. What getsme is im not havin any of these issues. ...? Fwi my room isnt all that air tight. I wonder if thats the difference?No offense WS but im plenty capable of troubleshooting a cheap ass burner,this was a problem alot of the best growers on the farm were experiencing at the time.There were alot of threads documenting it all that im not sure made it through the changeover.The reason it kept happening to me was i refused to give up on the burner,i replaced it,rebuilt it etc etc.As you know theres not very much to them at all which leaves just one answer,the combustion process itself.
I actually went as far as arranging a tour through dole pineapples fruit ripening facility in riverside ca, with one of their quality control techs,they use etyhylene and other gases in their processes.Even though its cheaper to produce them through combustion they do not do it even going as far as using electric forklifts in ripening room instead of propane to avoid exhaust residues.Whenever you produce a gas through combustion you also produce myriad bad gases with it as part of the process,only way to deal with it is to vent in fresh air which negates the whole sealed room deal.
Just to be clear too there is nothing technical or fancy about a burner,its as simple as it gets,a hose and regulator,and some orifices sized for NG or propane.Its not really like a heater at all which vents all the gases from combustion outside because they will build up and kill you!A burner is more like multiple pilot lights burning inside a room with no vent(sounds healthy huh?),yes it produces co2 along with alot of other shit.
Im super glad if it works for you,it didnt for me and when i changed to bottled problem solved,just my 2 cents on the burner deal.
I have the new infrared burners which are basically like a Mr buddy heater with ceramic burners. Supposed to burn much cleaner than the older pilot light style burners.No offense WS but im plenty capable of troubleshooting a cheap ass burner,this was a problem alot of the best growers on the farm were experiencing at the time.There were alot of threads documenting it all that im not sure made it through the changeover.The reason it kept happening to me was i refused to give up on the burner,i replaced it,rebuilt it etc etc.As you know theres not very much to them at all which leaves just one answer,the combustion process itself.
I actually went as far as arranging a tour through dole pineapples fruit ripening facility in riverside ca, with one of their quality control techs,they use etyhylene and other gases in their processes.Even though its cheaper to produce them through combustion they do not do it even going as far as using electric forklifts in ripening room instead of propane to avoid exhaust residues.Whenever you produce a gas through combustion you also produce myriad bad gases with it as part of the process,only way to deal with it is to vent in fresh air which negates the whole sealed room deal.
Just to be clear too there is nothing technical or fancy about a burner,its as simple as it gets,a hose and regulator,and some orifices sized for NG or propane.Its not really like a heater at all which vents all the gases from combustion outside because they will build up and kill you!A burner is more like multiple pilot lights burning inside a room with no vent(sounds healthy huh?),yes it produces co2 along with alot of other shit.
Im super glad if it works for you,it didnt for me and when i changed to bottled problem solved,just my 2 cents on the burner deal.
Dont know much about them,saw some different burners awhile back but didnt pay much attention.I just use luxfer aluminum 50s now,they are light,last along time and 20 bucks for a refill at the welding supply shop.I have the new infrared burners which are basically like a Mr buddy heater with ceramic burners. Supposed to burn much cleaner than the older pilot light style burners.
Not sure bro,I know it seems Larger rooms and vented rooms are affected less so if your not truly sealed it could be that?Also some people dont seem to have issues(or know their having them)with burners at all .I only know what happened to me and a shitload of others and it sounds exactly like what phenotyper is experiencing now.When it happens it will make you pull your hair out because it manifests itself like it could be 100 different things,just upsetting to me to hear someone condescendingly say "user error",lol,How the hell is that supposed to help?.Burners are stupidly simple and when you remove it from the room and everything rights itself almost immediately you know its the problem.I read something u wrote about this awhile back and it makes perfect sense. What getsme is im not havin any of these issues. ...? Fwi my room isnt all that air tight. I wonder if thats the difference?
Having run co2 burners (propane and natural gas) in a number of rooms, I can feel your pain with this. We had nearly a year where a few of our rooms were growing incredibly bad, same things as you describe. Let's just say that it was a lesson that cost us tens of thousands. Eventually realized it was the co2 burner causing the problem, despite having the exact same model working fine in a few of our other rooms. I've now seen this in a number of people's rooms, and it is way more common than anyone would think.
There are two things going on usually:
1) VPD issues - High co2 sends a "close" signal to stomata, and when this is coupled with high VPD, the plants gets a 2x close stomata signal, and can't transpire or grow effectively.
2) A lot of these burners have leaky fittings - either where the hose attaches to the burner, where the regulator screws on to the tank, or even in the internal fittings of the unit. If there is any propane or gas that is leaking in to the room uncombusted, your plants will start to die. I have seen a number of rooms go from looking HORRIBLE to looking amazing within 48 hours, simply from tightening the fittings on these tanks.
So here's some fixes:
Make sure that every fitting is tightened and tested with soapy water, while the burner is on and running.
Also, if you're using propane tanks, be aware that the regulators that attach to the tank have a pressure release hole, and when you hook in a new tank that is fully pressurized, the regulator will bleed raw propane out through that hole. So put your tanks outside the room if possible. Also, only open the valve on the tank a 1/2 turn.
Hope this helps, good luck.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM!Burners in small sealed rooms build up ethylene no matter natural gas or propane,its a by product of the combustion.You have a couple choices,get rid of the burner and switch to bottled or vent the room(not really sealed then).Tomatoes are indicator plants with ethylene,like a canary in a coalmine,put one in your room and if it goes downhill fast you know you have an ethylene issue.I hate burners now,when i ran my old 10k room it was dialed and then i put in a burner(2 Actually)and was fubared for over a year til i figured it out.
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