Not enough N? See hiwbottom, that or overwatering

Live BF LSD

Updates

The burn is slowly progressing on JH3. I have continued to feed, as the soil only feeds about a month. I will be watching the burn and tuning it down, or backing totally off if it keeps going.

For the LSD#3, it looks like N def. Again, this seems to be a heavy feeder, at least compared to what I am used to.

Here are updated water/feed logs and pics

JH #3 (my third seed sprouted from my order)
7/13 - watered with pH 6.7 water
7/17 - watered with pH 6.48 water + Cal/Mag 4ml/USGAL - noticed some discoloration on the first true leaves' tips and back up the leaf a tiny bit. Second set of leaves have discoloration on tips only. Assuming nute burn from the crap soil.
7/21 - watered with pH 6.43 water - burn progressing. Second set of leaves showing discoloration along with the burn browning.
7/25 - fed Pro Grow 6.43 4ml/USGAL
7/30 - watered with pH 6.41 water + Cal/Mag 5ml/USGAL
8/2 - watered with pH 6.46 water
8/5 - fed with Pro Grow 6.47 15ml/Gal

LSD #3
7/13 - watered with pH 6.7 water
7/17 - watered with pH 6.48 water + Cal/Mag 4ml/USGAL
7/20 - fed with Pro Gro pH 6.45 4ml/USGAL
7/23 - watered with pH 6.47 + Cal/Mag 4ml/USGAL
7/25 - fed with Pro Gro pH 6.43 4ml/USGAL
7/27 - fed with Pro Gro pH 6.43 14ml/USGAL (light flush)
7/30 - watered with pH 6.45 water
8/1 - watered with pH 6.46 water
8/3 - fed with Pro Gro pH 6.47 15ml/Gal
8/5 - watered with pH 6.48 + Cal/Mag 5ml/Gal

You might start to think about putting those gals into bigger pots soon.

cannarado said:

You might start to think about putting those gals into bigger pots soon.

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Indeed, I have thought about it :) My flower chamber is currently full, and will be pulling several plants (all in party cups) the middle of this month. At that point, I will be moving some plants IN to flower, which will free up the room to repot both of these into ~1Gal containers, which will be their final home. The problem is, I don't know if I can keep them for 2 months in veg while the others flower. We shall see how it goes. I don't have a ton of lighting in the veg box, so growth shouldn't be too fast.

Looks good. You have the right idea with your nutes schedule and you will dial it in over time. Are you using Pure Blend Pro? If so I highly recommend liquid karma. Its a little expensive but it is worth it. I also see your using cal/mag, I didn't use any my first couple grows and then I started using it and don't know how I got by with out it. It showed in my end product though.
It looks like they are getting pretty tall, They will need some serious topping or LSTing if you have to wait a couple months to flower. Good luck.

NorCal_44 said:

Looks good. You have the right idea with your nutes schedule and you will dial it in over time. Are you using Pure Blend Pro? If so I highly recommend liquid karma. Its a little expensive but it is worth it. I also see your using cal/mag, I didn't use any my first couple grows and then I started using it and don't know how I got by with out it. It showed in my end product though.
It looks like they are getting pretty tall, They will need some serious topping or LSTing if you have to wait a couple months to flower. Good luck.

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Thanks for dropping by mate. Yes using the Pure Blend Pro line. I have thought about looking into the karma. Might try and pick it up when I can.

I just transplanted LSD#3 into her new home. It's not in the pic, but I did top her down to six branches. Thinking two for cloning, and four for flowering. Will be applying some LST to this lady.

Also gave her a good dose of Grow @ 15ml/Gal for good measure. Started the planting with perlite, then covered with soil.

Got my new grow tent in, which is replacing the flowering cabinet. It is 36"x20". Right now I transitioned my 120mm 4" pc fans over, so I have two outtakes and one intake powered by fans. The temps are sitting around 80 - which is about what it was in the other cabinet.

Here are some pics of my current flower tent setup, just got it going last night. And a shot of LSD3 and JH3, both of which are topped now.

Also, I am attempting to clone JH3's top in straight water + 1ml Liquid Karma. I have had abysmal luck with cloning in peat plugs lately. Not sure what's up, I was having near 100% success before.

They seem much happier in those larger pots. You might be running a bit hot on the CalMag. I tend to max out at about .75 ml/liter, which is about 2.85ml/gallon. It could perhaps be locking out some nutes and/or pushing the mix toxic a bit. With that small volume of soil there's little margin for error.

For the sake of curiosity why the small cups? It looks like the beer cup plants in the flowering chamber are suffering. Might be a good idea to start flushing them to 100% runoff once a week if you're going to keep them root bound. Also, I dunno if you raised the light for the pic but that LED should be as close as you can comfortably get it without burning (use the back of your hand as a gauge..if it's too hot for skin it's too hot for leaves). Not trying to be a know it all or anything, just throwing out some tips from experience ;)

As an overall general rule, it's always better to run plants into deficiency than into toxicity...when it doubt lower the fert dose. Here's a link to a fert schedule I came up with for PBP that works for me...it should be a good baseline. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=152361

jawnroot said:

They seem much happier in those larger pots. You might be running a bit hot on the CalMag. I tend to max out at about .75 ml/liter, which is about 2.85ml/gallon. It could perhaps be locking out some nutes and/or pushing the mix toxic a bit. With that small volume of soil there's little margin for error.

For the sake of curiosity why the small cups? It looks like the beer cup plants in the flowering chamber are suffering. Might be a good idea to start flushing them to 100% runoff once a week if you're going to keep them root bound. Also, I dunno if you raised the light for the pic but that LED should be as close as you can comfortably get it without burning (use the back of your hand as a gauge..if it's too hot for skin it's too hot for leaves). Not trying to be a know it all or anything, just throwing out some tips from experience ;)

As an overall general rule, it's always better to run plants into deficiency than into toxicity...when it doubt lower the fert dose. Here's a link to a fert schedule I came up with for PBP that works for me...it should be a good baseline. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=152361

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Dude, +rep! thank you so much for the PBP schedule. I have been trying to figure out what works best, but I did just get the stuff.

Now, to address the rest of your post:

The cups were my attempt at keeping two mothers, then taking a bunch of clones every few weeks. I was hoping to perpetually pull two plants per week for myself and my wife. It didn't take long to realize that having to care for ~15+ plants is very time consuming, especially when they are all on different watering schedules. Some nights I would be watering 10 plants, and some needed reg water, some needed nutes, etc. I just don't have enough experience to keep this running in an efficient manner right now.

So for now, I am letting them run their course and then will be flowering only in ~1gal pots or larger.

Not sure what happened with the plants in the cups in flower, but both strains (those are mainly JH and Bubblelicious) all exhibited the same problems. Top leaves went crispy brown from the tips back to the petiole. Here in late flowering the leaves have purple coloring between the green and the brown. I am sure it's some kind of def, probably from lockout. But I experimented more than I should have with those. They have a hot soil, with Bone meal mixed in and some have lime and some don't. I also went for about a month with watering at 7.0 pH or above to try and bring up the run off because it was reading at around 5.5-5.9 (which apparently doesn't matter). I think that is what really screwed it all up.

The other problem I have is I am using well water. The ppms from the tap hi 150 and sometimes 200. I am looking into a small R/O system for the purpose of growing. So you think I may be going a little too crazy with the Cal/Mag?

As for the LED - it's a Spectra 290, pulling about that in watts (290ish). This things is BRIGHT. Now, I raised it initially because of the problem I had with the plants in the cups. I initially thought it was major light burn.

I will continue to run it at this height for now, it's also about the recommended height from Mike at GHL (approx 20-24").

Here's a watering/feeding log from one of the burnt up (I guess?) party cup plants in flower. This is from a Jock Horror (Skunk x Haze x NL) - it's Nirvana's version of Jack Herrer. This plant was doing ok in veg after the clone, but once put into flower it started showing the burn or whatever signs w/in a fews days, which is what prompted me to raise the LED light. It's buds are tiny, so bud production almost stopped:
Cut taken: 5/5
Planted: 5/17
Flowered: 6/23

5/17 watered with tap water @6.91
5/24 fed with MG @1/2 str, 6.87pH
5/28 watered with 6.93 tap water + epsom salts (didn't record measurement)
6/4 watered with 6.46 water + 1/tsp gal supermarket epsom salts (why I did this back to back I don't know). Topped to two main branches.
6/9 fed with MG @1/2 str, 6.53 pH. Flushed with this solution.
6/15 watered with tap water at 7.72pH
6/20 watered with tap water at 7.70pH
6/25 watered with tap water at 7.90pH
6/29 fed with MG flower @ 1/4 str, 7.14 pH <-- this around when I started seeing the issue.
7/4 watered with tap water at 7.84pH
7/9 watered with tap water at 7.80pH + 1tsp/gal of epsom salts
7/13 watered with tap water @6.40 pH
By this time the problem was pretty bad and it has not corrected since.

Again, thanks for the info man. I will spend some time digesting your schedule and seeing what I can tune in.

Edit: Though, the bubblelicious plants are starting to add a little weight. Too bad they are due to be pulled in the next couple weeks.

So I am thinking my tap water may be an issue. Would you recommend switching over to some form of filtered water, or can I just dial back the nutes a little?

I'd say the brown on those smaller plants is definitely a burn, not a def. I mean it might, might be a major phosphorus def, but I highly doubt that given your schedule.

The real problem is the water you're using as a baseline. That 150-200ppm is pretty much all calmag, so the addition of calmag is overkill. CalMag combined with your PH adjustment plus the tap will probably give you a 500-600 ppm baseline or higher. Add the nutes onto that and you're closing in on the danger zone. And as mentioned with that small volume of soil you have zero margin for error, which is why those smaller plants are showing significant issues at this point.

If I were you I'd go out and buy some distilled water and flush all plants showing any signs of problems to 100% runoff. Then take a look at the nute schedule I linked, figure out where you are on it, and feed at 75% listed and work your way back up again.

The best advice I can give you = before starting any more plants either get an R.O. system, start buying distilled, or look for a Glacier water dispensing machine in your area. The other nugget I can offer is to stick with a few larger plants (like 2-4 in your tent) rather than all those little ones. You get a larger harvest in one "lump sum" that will last over time, and you won't have the problems associated with those small cups.

In my experience, LED lights are kind of teh suk, and you may want to look into, down the line, getting an HPS or CMH in the 250-400 range to replace it. I'm running a 250 HPS in a GL60 with only two medium sized plants and routinely get from 4 to 8oz depending upon strain...I end up giving half of it away to other patients as it's more than I can use for my needs.

Good luck with everything. :yes

I'll be honest and mention I haven't read everyone's replies in this thread, but your veg photos seem to be showing nute deficiency. I thought you had corrected it but you mentioned it is progressing. Note: when it yellows at the bottom and works it's way up it is usually a deficiency (time to start nutes), when it yellows on the top leaves first and curl over like a claw, it is overfed. If it isn't progressing you probably got your nutes all worked out. And the little cups that far along can cause nute uptake to become weird and not get nutes due to being rootbound.

The burn on your flowering plants is no doubt a nutrient lockout due to being rootbound. They won't really get better and get large buds without going into larger containers. If left in those cups they will not flower correctly and could die.

Yeah, the horror and LCD are running deficient (possibly the result of lockout/root binding), while the flowering beer cups are toxic, either the result of salt buildup (probable) or overfert (possible). That's not light burn on those plants.

Either way, you really can't take a cannabis plant to term in beer cups without seeing issues. Even assuming you get it super dialed to the point where you could run them in cups, the added effort isn't worth it for the big hit in yield and quality one takes.

For small/medium plants (reads 15-24ish inches), a 2 gallon is appropriate. 24-36 you can get away with 3 gallons. SmartPots will get you a bit of extra milage, as the roots tend to branch out and utilize all of the medium. You might be able to take a small plant to term in a 1 gallon smart pot.

In all honesty, I'd take those toxed beer cup plants and call them a loss at this point. Trim all the funk off, dry, and grind up for butter or joints. They're pretty much half dead at this point, and given how far they are in flowering won't recover.

Ouch. Yeah with those, I went crazy and mixed bone meal and lime in with the hot soil + perlite. I am thinking that might have contributed. I have definitely figured out the cups don't work for taking them all the way. They do however seem to do ok for seedlings to be transplanted.

Now, for the JH and the LSD. Their roots weren't really that rootbound. I had filled the bottom inch of each cup with perlite, and the roots were just getting into it when I transplanted the LSD. Not sure on the JH just yet. I typically see better roots formed by now.

I am pretty positive the issues with the JH were a burn from the soil, and potentially the tap water. I had a somewhat similar issue with the first bean of this strain I grew, but she grew out of it after dropping a set of leaves or two.

The LSD wanted nutes pretty early on and I started her in on them. At this point, there probably is some kind of lockout going on. I am hoping the transplant will help her recover. I will be looking to transplant the JH within the next week.

Oh, and will be backing off the Cal/Mag, especially since the nutes have a dash of it as well. Thanks for the tip!

Thanks for dropping in guys!

It ended up being light burn from the GLH 2011 Spectra I was using. There are tons of reports of similar issues with these lights.

I ended up pulling about 1/2-3/4oz off each plant.

These are the latest pics I could find.