Nitrogen deficiency or lockout? Need help! (With photos)

L.AzyStoner420 · Dec 16, 2022

Good morning everyone, I am having a feeding problem in my plants but especially in 2. Let's start with the premise that in the past I have always managed to correct any deficiency in a short time and let's say that my feeding schedule in years has not changed but I know very well that every plant is different but I am getting to give really a lot of fertilizer and it seems to go the same way to make the situation worse. I'm nitrogen deficient and honestly if a few little leaves underneath are yellowing I'm not going out of my mind but from a few little leaves the plant is starting to scale up fast and they are starting to drop enough leaves every day. These symptoms so heavy only in one that is the only one that has the 20lt pot while the others are starting to show some signs of yellowing but nothing extreme, I am up to the third time of fertigation in a row and today I will be forced to give fertilizers for the fourth time in a row, guys the water is at 2.5 EC but besides it seems like too much I am afraid the soil will get saturated and I will go into lockout.
The plants are really huge but for this time I decided that other than a few side branches I would just do a light defoliation in vegetative and not go any further, so the plants are a bit dense now and I immediately thought that that might also be contributing in the continued demand for nutrients.
I use purified RO water for human use (020ppm).
Third week of flowering
Fertilizers
Advanced Nutrient
Grow, Micro, Bloom
Bud Candy
Big Bud
Nirvana
Bud Factor X
Sensi Cal/Mag
pH 6.5 (although it is lowered a bit by pH perfect nutrients but I have never had a problem)
They drink approximately 3lt each every two days.
Can anyone help me find a solution? Especially some advice for watering tonight guys.
It doesn't seem lockout to me also because the plants are growing at a fast rate
Thank you in advance

PS: I grow in air-pot and adequately controlling runoff (even if it is minimal) is a big deal since some times the water comes out sideways before crossing the soil

PipeCarver · Dec 16, 2022

L.AzyStoner420 said:
Good morning everyone, I am having a feeding problem in my plants but especially in 2. Let's start with the premise that in the past I have always managed to correct any deficiency in a short time and let's say that my feeding schedule in years has not changed but I know very well that every plant is different but I am getting to give really a lot of fertilizer and it seems to go the same way to make the situation worse. I'm nitrogen deficient and honestly if a few little leaves underneath are yellowing I'm not going out of my mind but from a few little leaves the plant is starting to scale up fast and they are starting to drop enough leaves every day. These symptoms so heavy only in one that is the only one that has the 20lt pot while the others are starting to show some signs of yellowing but nothing extreme, I am up to the third time of fertigation in a row and today I will be forced to give fertilizers for the fourth time in a row, guys the water is at 2.5 EC but besides it seems like too much I am afraid the soil will get saturated and I will go into lockout.
The plants are really huge but for this time I decided that other than a few side branches I would just do a light defoliation in vegetative and not go any further, so the plants are a bit dense now and I immediately thought that that might also be contributing in the continued demand for nutrients.
I use purified RO water for human use (020ppm).
Third week of flowering
Fertilizers
Advanced Nutrient
Grow, Micro, Bloom
Bud Candy
Big Bud
Nirvana
Bud Factor X
Sensi Cal/Mag
pH 6.5 (although it is lowered a bit by pH perfect nutrients but I have never had a problem)
They drink approximately 3lt each every two days.
Can anyone help me find a solution? Especially some advice for watering tonight guys.
It doesn't seem lockout to me also because the plants are growing at a fast rate
Thank you in advance

PS: I grow in air-pot and adequately controlling runoff (even if it is minimal) is a big deal since some times the water comes out sideways before crossing the soilView attachment 1311634 View attachment 1311636 View attachment 1311637 View attachment 1311638 View attachment 1311639 View attachment 1311640

Hi. nice looking girls, I too get a lot of my plants yellowing down low, I attribute it to low light and a bit low on nitrogen but to me its not to worry at this stage they're what @ 3-4 weeks in flower... I back off my grow nute any ways at that stage and kinda expect some yellow......some strain need more going into flower than others, I've 2 plants now that are yellowing more than I'd like, next time I grow that strain I'll up my feed a bit more going into flower and hope that slows down the decay.

L.AzyStoner420 · Dec 16, 2022

PipeCarver said:
Hi. nice looking girls, I too get a lot of my plants yellowing down low, I attribute it to low light and a bit low on nitrogen but to me its not to worry at this stage they're what @ 3-4 weeks in flower... I back off my grow nute any ways at that stage and kinda expect some yellow......some strain need more going into flower than others, I've 2 plants now that are yellowing more than I'd like, next time I grow that strain I'll up my feed a bit more going into flower and hope that slows down the decay.

I thank you for answering me and also for the compliments! anyway both the light is at 900/1000 ppfd. i noticed some genetics do that too but this time it is going up really fast the deficiency.. and every day i find many fallen leaves and the light green ones as soon as i touch them they practically fall off

PipeCarver · Dec 16, 2022

L.AzyStoner420 said:
I thank you for answering me and also for the compliments! anyway both the light is at 900/1000 ppfd. i noticed some genetics do that too but this time it is going up really fast the deficiency.. and every day i find many fallen leaves and the light green ones as soon as i touch them they practically fall off

I'm thinking its a combination of low light....( there's not a lot of light penetration through the canopy ).....and low food.....I'm not the best at diagnostics but keeping the thread on the board should get you more replies from those that know more...If you're watering / feeding a regular batch of nutes and you've grown this strain before I'd be more concerned but if its your first time with the strain then just note that and feed more going into flower the next time.

Another thing I've noticed is with RO water I get a lot of yellowing , I've used it as a flush and it turns things yellow in just a few days.....back to back zero ppm RO water just about kills them all off,,,,My well water at 122ppm doesn't do that...Do you water....feed...water...feed...and use RO water only when watering?

mysticepipedon · Dec 16, 2022

I don't think it's lockout. Not much locks out nitrogen and I don't see any other symptoms.

What week of flower are you in? Sometimes if you miss the window when the plant wants more N, it doesn't help, it just hooks leaves. Good luck.

L.AzyStoner420 · Dec 17, 2022

PipeCarver said:
I'm thinking its a combination of low light....( there's not a lot of light penetration through the canopy ).....and low food.....I'm not the best at diagnostics but keeping the thread on the board should get you more replies from those that know more...If you're watering / feeding a regular batch of nutes and you've grown this strain before I'd be more concerned but if its your first time with the strain then just note that and feed more going into flower the next time.

Another thing I've noticed is with RO water I get a lot of yellowing , I've used it as a flush and it turns things yellow in just a few days.....back to back zero ppm RO water just about kills them all off,,,,My well water at 122ppm doesn't do that...Do you water....feed...water...feed...and use RO water only when watering?

I made the same thread on Rollitup and people started throwing shit on advanced nutrients and they dictated that the problem is the cocktail of nutrients I'm giving them but in many others responded that the problem is in the fact that the lower leaves are not photosynthetically efficient and the light not penetrating uses them as nutrients or water reserve.
Anyway I couldn't explain the lack of food with an ec of 2.5 but I don't think it's lockout since the plants are not even stuck but going fast every day. I use RO water but never give it without anything! I always put cal/mag since it is very poor in minerals but still I do some times with big plants two times of nutrients (the ones mentioned above) and once RO water with cal/mag! I would not put it at 0ppm

L.AzyStoner420 · Dec 17, 2022

mysticepipedon said:
I don't think it's lockout. Not much locks out nitrogen and I don't see any other symptoms.

What week of flower are you in? Sometimes if you miss the window when the plant wants more N, it doesn't help, it just hooks leaves. Good luck.

But in fact to everyone who said it was lockout just by looking at the nutrients I asked if the photos actually showed symptoms since in theory with a lockout I should have totally stopped plants and at least symptoms that the plant has stopped absorbing all other nutrients. I am going out of my mind

Observationist · Dec 17, 2022

L.AzyStoner420 said:
Lower leaves are not photosynthetically efficient and the light not penetrating uses them as nutrients or water reserve.

Plausible?

L.AzyStoner420 said:
Anyway I couldn't explain the lack of food with an ec of 2.5 I use RO water but never give it without anything! I always put cal/mag

Just cal/mag?
Do you feed, water with cal/mg and then feed - water cal/mg ?

mysticepipedon · Dec 17, 2022

L.AzyStoner420 said:
But in fact to everyone who said it was lockout just by looking at the nutrients I asked if the photos actually showed symptoms since in theory with a lockout I should have totally stopped plants and at least symptoms that the plant has stopped absorbing all other nutrients. I am going out of my mind

I'm going with the people who say it's no big deal to lose those lower leaves. They're shaded, and I usually remove them completely. My plants have shaved legs.

With lockout, you have to figure out what nutrient is being locked out and by which other nutrient. What we have here are nitrogen deficiency symptoms. Nitrogen dissolves in water and literally goes wherever the water goes -- if the plant takes up water, it also takes up nitrogen if it is in the soil/media/solution. NOTHING CAN STOP IT. I refer to them as deficiency symptoms, but plants will also shed shaded leaves on their own and first strip the leaf of nitrogen and other mobile nutrients.

Take a look at the Mulder diagram. The most common culprit for lockout is calcium. Does it touch nitrogen? No, but it messes with almost everything else (the arrows are pointing from calcium to the other nutrients. I have gotten lockout from too much calcium, and it doesn't look like what you are seeing.

In short, you're doing fine. Don't do anything drastic here, except maybe trim off those lower leaves.

L.AzyStoner420 · Dec 17, 2022

Observationist said:
Plausible?

Just cal/mag?
Do you feed, water with cal/mg and then feed - water cal/mg ?

Yes, exactly as you wrote! By using RO water I necessarily have to give those minerals that are basicly missing, and I noticed that in the old cycles it helped me not to always fall into calcium and magnesium deficiency... And a lot of people have strongly advised me against using RO water at 0 ppm.
I can't use tap water because it's absolutely toxic and it's highly toxic to drink with so much warning to citizens from the city where I live, if I try to smell the water it tastes like a solvent and it's really strong smelling.
Guys given the enormous difficulty in collecting a really accurate runoff reading using air pots I was thinking (to remove any doubt about excessive fertilizer) to do a slurry test by collecting a soil sample at the top, middle and bottom of the pot. How does this look? I don't want to bullshit but at least then I wouldn't be able to figure out more or less how I'm doing?

TSD · Dec 17, 2022

I always have yellowing leaves in flower, it seems they just cannibalize the older fans when they get older and less efficient, especially the ones that don't get as much light. I've never worried about it, but I do outdoor and usually have many leaves, I would say in later flower, it's totally normal for me to pick several dying leaves off per day. I usually leave them till they are used up and take them off once they start to look rough if they don't fall first. I also keep my lady's legs shaved. I wouldn't say there's a N deficiency, they look quite green. Leaves do have a life cycle and die off eventually when they stop photosynthesising. The only thing I would do if I were you is back off the calmag a bit maybe, there is a such thing as too much of it. I use very rarely, and more than once I've had it piss my plants off and do more harm than good... but again, I'm outside most of my grow and I use well water, so it isn't necessary. It could be the start of a lockout from too much calcium, but that's probably less likely in soil. Are they getting a proper dry period? The leaves look slightly swollen, too much water will also cause yellowing and leaf death. There is also a such thing as too many different things going in at once... I know a lot of folks give veg and bloom nutes all the way through, which I never understood, because the veg is formulated for veg, the bloom for bloom... simple is usually better honestly, and it's easier to figure out an issue when you're not adding 25 different things. Just my 2 cents. I don't think you have anything catastrophic happening, girls look good over all.

L.AzyStoner420 · Dec 17, 2022

mysticepipedon said:
I'm going with the people who say it's no big deal to lose those lower leaves. They're shaded, and I usually remove them completely. My plants have shaved legs.

With lockout, you have to figure out what nutrient is being locked out and by which other nutrient. What we have here are nitrogen deficiency symptoms. Nitrogen dissolves in water and literally goes wherever the water goes -- if the plant takes up water, it also takes up nitrogen if it is in the soil/media/solution. NOTHING CAN STOP IT. I refer to them as deficiency symptoms, but plants will also shed shaded leaves on their own and first strip the leaf of nitrogen and other mobile nutrients.

Take a look at the Mulder diagram. The most common culprit for lockout is calcium. Does it touch nitrogen? No, but it messes with almost everything else (the arrows are pointing from calcium to the other nutrients. I have gotten lockout from too much calcium, and it doesn't look like what you are seeing.

View attachment 1311861
In short, you're doing fine. Don't do anything drastic here, except maybe trim off those lower leaves.

I really thank you so much for coming to my rescue! i really appreciate it anyway i just tried to give last night just water and see how they do over the next few days. i will definitely decrease the amounts but i am confused because my brain thinks that if a bigger plant needs more fertilizer especially if it is growing very fast so i had honestly deduced that more than overfeeding it was underfeeding! Then excuse my ignorance but if a plant goes into lockout shouldn't I see burnt leaf tips and almost all deficiencies since it wouldn't be able to absorb any nutrients? Shouldn't growth stop? and most importantly... shouldn't everything happen very fast and reach the top? Sorry for all the questions but I am taking the opportunity to learn more about this issue

TSD · Dec 17, 2022

If you're questioning whether the RO is the issue, maybe you could try spring water instead? Like in gallons from the store, or if you have a local spring, I live in the mountains so people tap springs and there's fresh clean water on tap in a few places locally, not sure if that's a thing where you are, sounds like probably not.

Observationist · Dec 17, 2022

Agree with @mysticepipedon

And ro water is fine, as long as you add stuff to it.

Trixie · Dec 17, 2022

You have a pretty garden looking at the canopy. Those are nice-looking buds.

Sod · Dec 17, 2022

I'll join the choir here, the plants like fine. My plants do the same thing on the lower leaves, yellowish. I chalk it up to low light levels. I'll prune most of the lower stuff at the switch to 12/12. The lower leaves don't produce enough bud for me to worry about. I'd rather the energy go into the tops. I wouldn't worry about your nute cocktail. I do the same thing. And since I'm a very lazy grower, I just put whatever strikes my fancy at the time and the stage the plants are in, veg vs flower. I treat my plants like a weed. I got 4 pounds of dried buds from 3 plants on my last outdoor grow, so something is going well in spite of my lazy way of growing. I will say that once in a while I end up with a plant that doesn't do all that well and trying to figure out the problem just gets too complicated for me, like I said, I'm lazy. But good luck, it looks like to me you're doing just fine on your plants there.

SOD

Nitrogen deficiency or lockout? Need help! (With photos)

Nitrogen deficiency or lockout? Need help! (With photos)

L.AzyStoner420

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