PiffinOut said:

Most of us on either side of the spectrum care about our health. Bugs wont really effect your health as much as metals and toxicity. I personally do homegrown because i know what I put in my dirt. i have never used weedkiller or pesticides here in my 20 years and my soil is lab tested every couple of years for heavy metals and general nutrient makeup and always comes up with amazing numbers. Knowing all of that for certain, I have no issue getting my soil sanitized and debugged via solarization or baking, which can easily be done in my yard or basement with no concern. Once sterilized I am able to make a quality soil that I am happy with.

Those who go storebought however do not know where other companies mix may have come from, or what was in it in what proportions. If you asked the company if the land it came from was ever sprayed you might have a hard time getting solid answers or outright lies, as most of the companies geared towards THCfarming are new and havent been around for 20 years.
Buying soil from a distributor doesnt necessarily limit your exposure to things that negatively affect your health.
Id rather have some gnats I have to bake off/ solarize or deal with during my grow than lead, arsenic or microplastic exposure.

So we reach a difference of opinion, I know my soil nutrient makeup and I know my tox levels, I know whats been done to my soil for over 20 years, and I know how to sterilize/debug it and have the means to do so.
Meanwhile, you many not know your storebought soils actual test results, you have to take the manufacturer at their word, and while it may not have zhe bugs... you have no guarantee that it doesnt have heavy metals toxins etc unless you get the soil tested yourself. For all you know your soil may also be harming the planet via being removed from the amazon, my dirt from the yard, doesnt contribute to such deforestation practices.

Read enough on this forum and youll discover that not even rock dust or bone meal is created equal. Different mining sources have different heavy metals and other toxins amounts. Different bone meal suppliers have different levels of arsenic etc.
Manufacturers lie all the time, its a cost of doing business. Unless you get their products tested yourself you do not know whats in their product, or how healthy it is, you just know you arent seeing bugs.

Some soil companies own electronics recycling centers... why on earth do soil companies own electronic recycling centers... let that sink in before you decide to pay for questionable dirt again.

Ill gladly deal with having to sanitize good and independently tested homegrown soil for bugs, over having possible heavy metals, carcinogens, and/or toxins in store bought dirt mixes.

Click to expand...

baking soil indoors in a house has got yo the silliest thing. Solarization with black blue or anything besides painters plastic is going to take longer. Thats just obvious....but maybe slow and arduous is wat you are after. Ill admitt it i like extra work, if im bored...

Fungi from trees i dont think is beneficial to plants as it's ecto fungi and isnt that exclusively for trees? Best place to get mycos is the southren facing part of a forest that comes out to a lushly growing grassy area. Putting your rice in there about 6inches into the ground.

Ive read up on korean farming the asian folks have been doing this for a very long time..ill just leave this be now...lol bakin dirt indoors...laughable! A campfire would do so much better

Flexnerb said:

baking soil indoors in a house has got yo the silliest thing. Solarization with black blue or anything besides painters plastic is going to take longer. Thats just obvious....but maybe slow and arduous is wat you are after. Ill admitt it i like extra work, if im bored...

Fungi from trees i dont think is beneficial to plants as it's ecto fungi and isnt that exclusively for trees? Best place to get mycos is the southren facing part of a forest that comes out to a lushly growing grassy area. Putting your rice in there about 6inches into the ground.

Ive read up on korean farming the asian folks have been doing this for a very long time..ill just leave this be now...lol bakin dirt indoors...laughable! A campfire would do so much better

Click to expand...

Personally I think there is something magical about tannins. No rice needed.

Homesteader said:

Personally I think there is something magical about tannins. No rice needed.

Click to expand...

Im wondering if they arent passing on lignin to plants. Form a relationship with a tree or bark/tree part in the soil decaying and feed lignin to tbe plant via the afformentioned

Homesteader said:

Tannins' surprising benefits for soils, forests and farms

The tannins that help make good red wine and bright fall colors also may help make good soil and healthy livestock, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) researchers.

phys.org

Click to expand...

Any gov based study or research...you might as well tell uncle sam to roll it up nice and tight and sit on it...im not into gov studies epa fda cdc fuck them...

I mean look at the facts fauci says wear two masks....thats like fuckin someone with hiv and having 2 condoms on! Hell nah!

I think I would trust ARS over the CDC any day of the week but point taken. I didn't start using oak leaves because the government told me. My father taught me decades ago how to use leaves to grow huge pumpkins.

Flexnerb said:

baking soil indoors in a house has got yo the silliest thing. Solarization with black blue or anything besides painters plastic is going to take longer. Thats just obvious....but maybe slow and arduous is wat you are after. Ill admitt it i like extra work, if im bored...

Fungi from trees i dont think is beneficial to plants as it's ecto fungi and isnt that exclusively for trees? Best place to get mycos is the southren facing part of a forest that comes out to a lushly growing grassy area. Putting your rice in there about 6inches into the ground.

Ive read up on korean farming the asian folks have been doing this for a very long time..ill just leave this be now...lol bakin dirt indoors...laughable! A campfire would do so much better

Click to expand...

not everyones got a campfire

Homesteader said:

I think I would trust ARS over the CDC any day of the week but point taken. I didn't start using oak leaves because the government told me. My father taught me decades ago how to use leaves to grow huge pumpkins.

Click to expand...

Oak leaves and tea leaves are used commonly in blackwater isotope tanks to provide tannins and detrius. Studies have shown that for many blackwater fish, tannins provide a healthy controlled environment for them with beneficial microbes, and a buffering effect for PH and nutrient profiles to boot. Leaves and wood soak up nutrients and slowly release them into the soil as the leaves and wood break down. It provides a stabalizing effect to water parameters.
Personally I take use oak leaves in my tanks, and amy yard leaves in the fall get dumped in my garden over spread compost. Never have an issue, and most importantly never had to till my soil as its always nutrient rich and stable from leaf and bark breaking down over time releasing nutrients in a slow stream.

Flexnerb said:

Any gov based study or research...you might as well tell uncle sam to roll it up nice and tight and sit on it...im not into gov studies epa fda cdc fuck them...

I mean look at the facts fauci says wear two masks....thats like fuckin someone with hiv and having 2 condoms on! Hell nah!

Click to expand...

In many cases I agree, but the government isnt making money off of decaying folliage pedallers as there are none. I can assure you, tannins are legit, fish love them, your aquarium may love them. Certain plants may love them. and different tree leaves can provide different nutritional make ups. for instance black locust vs oak vs maple all provide different nutrient profiles that are beneficial for soil makeup when broken down. Ever look at the dirt underneath a huge pile of leaves especially near old trees, its usually full of worms, and myco... thats a pretty good sign.

In any case, going back to yard soil, if its going indoors, it is recommended that you do so in any way that you can remove unwanted pests. If you have a yard or a campfire... perfect, if not, well then an oven with open windows and you being in another room is a reasonable go around. However you do it, its important that you do.

BigCube said:

Not sure why you replied to me, I don't care what you do. I was answering a question. Do whatever makes you happy man. not sure why you felt the need to share it with me though.

Click to expand...

Sorry if that came off in the wrong tone.
I was just informing you that the medical health side of the equation can swing both ways. With homegrown tested soil, your only issue is bugs. With store bought, your issue is truthfullness of test results and longterm environmental sustainability.

If you trust the company and prefer to source your soil from a store or manufacturer, more power to you. I for one do not trust companies (ex. how long did it take Round Up to admit it caused cancer), and would rather get my own soil tested and sanitized than spend that money on dirt that may or may not have been sustainably harvested or may have certain toxic elements that would only be revealed via independent third party testing.

Not trying to knock your high, just saying.
Im more worried about zhe toxins, you seem more concerned about zhe bugs and pests. Just a difference in opinion, I wish you the best on your grows, good sir.
Theres more than one way to grow a plant, neither of us are right, but neither of us are wrong either.

the dirt, bugs and all, works outdoors for many reasons. it may not "work" so great indoors. take it to the farm bureau and get it tested (at least that is what they call it at home) see if it is suitable indoors before going to any effort with it.

seems that if you "wash" it as suggested, any "good" will be washed away (like flushing the nutes)

on the other hand, not with weed, but most other plants ive grown, i have a farm style compost and i use that dirt for everything and dont have any issues... but i wouldnt mind tossing a dieffenbachia like i would mind tossing a cannabis plant!

speaking of bugs, i see the little yellow sticky papers most use, is there a best kind or size i should get?

PiffinOut said:

Sorry if that came off in the wrong tone.
I was just informing you that the medical health side of the equation can swing both ways. With homegrown tested soil, your only issue is bugs. With store bought, your issue is truthfullness of test results and longterm environmental sustainability.

If you trust the company and prefer to source your soil from a store or manufacturer, more power to you. I for one do not trust companies (ex. how long did it take Round Up to admit it caused cancer), and would rather get my own soil tested and sanitized than spend that money on dirt that may or may not have been sustainably harvested or may have certain toxic elements that would only be revealed via independent third party testing.

Not trying to knock your high, just saying.
Im more worried about zhe toxins, you seem more concerned about zhe bugs and pests. Just a difference in opinion, I wish you the best on your grows, good sir.
Theres more than one way to grow a plant, neither of us are right, but neither of us are wrong either.

Click to expand...

Again, I dont care about your opinion. I didn't ask you anything. Think whatever you want man it dont matter to me I answered OPs question. Please stop trying to debate me, I honestly dont care and never read a single thing you typed.

PiffinOut said:

Sorry if that came off in the wrong tone.
I was just informing you that the medical health side of the equation can swing both ways. With homegrown tested soil, your only issue is bugs. With store bought, your issue is truthfullness of test results and longterm environmental sustainability.

If you trust the company and prefer to source your soil from a store or manufacturer, more power to you. I for one do not trust companies (ex. how long did it take Round Up to admit it caused cancer), and would rather get my own soil tested and sanitized than spend that money on dirt that may or may not have been sustainably harvested or may have certain toxic elements that would only be revealed via independent third party testing.

Not trying to knock your high, just saying.
Im more worried about zhe toxins, you seem more concerned about zhe bugs and pests. Just a difference in opinion, I wish you the best on your grows, good sir.
Theres more than one way to grow a plant, neither of us are right, but neither of us are wrong either.

Click to expand...

BigCube said:

Again, I dont care about your opinion. I didn't ask you anything. Think whatever you want man it dont matter to me I answered OPs question. Please stop trying to debate me, I honestly dont care and never read a single thing you typed.

Click to expand...

And to throw a wrench in all the shiz going on here.... Full disclosure, I've been drinking (so take this with a grain of salt) and don't recall what this thread is about.

Organics are proven to be more prone to higher heavy metal concentrations than synthetic nutrients, ie a more toxic method of growing. In addition, large scale organic cultures suffer from higher levels of pathogens, runoff toxification of water tables, loss of top soil, etc.

In terms of a home grower producing mildly more than personal use (speaking up to 8 light grow rooms), this argument is null. Now, running a commercial op, everything changes. Any savvy businessman will know 1) synthetic is more bang for buck 2) prepackaged materials == time is money 3) so long the baseline mandated tests run clean, custom mix vs prepackaged are irrelevant. Your customers care about bag appeal and affect, nothing more. They could give two shits if you grow OMRI Certified organic, vegan approved, sustainable, whatever-monthly-flavor-of-offense is on topic.

They want weed, simple as that. Unruffle the feathers, and be chill gentlemen.

tobh said:

And to throw a wrench in all the shiz going on here.... Full disclosure, I've been drinking (so take this with a grain of salt) and don't recall what this thread is about.

Organics are proven to be more prone to higher heavy metal concentrations than synthetic nutrients, ie a more toxic method of growing. In addition, large scale organic cultures suffer from higher levels of pathogens, runoff toxification of water tables, loss of top soil, etc.

In terms of a home grower producing mildly more than personal use (speaking up to 8 light grow rooms), this argument is null. Now, running a commercial op, everything changes. Any savvy businessman will know 1) synthetic is more bang for buck 2) prepackaged materials == time is money 3) so long the baseline mandated tests run clean, custom mix vs prepackaged are irrelevant. Your customers care about bag appeal and affect, nothing more. They could give two shits if you grow OMRI Certified organic, vegan approved, sustainable, whatever-monthly-flavor-of-offense is on topic.

They want weed, simple as that. Unruffle the feathers, and be chill gentlemen.

Click to expand...

Let me first state that I, personally, would not grow weed for distribution or revenue seeking purposes. Any weed I would ever consider growing would be for personal consumption and nothing more.

Organic ferts are not proven to be more prone to higher heavy metal concentrations than synethic ferts. I would respectfully disagree with your statement. I have been doing some digging myself and the jury appears to still be out. In my preliminary readings of the various studies available, the levels of heavy metals concentrations in organic ferts and soil is largely dependant upon whether the fertilizers come from 1. livestock manure or 2. discarded human food and yard clippings. Air pollution also contributes, but air pollution is air pollution, and both synthetic fertilzed soil and organic fertilized soil will be affected the same by air pollution in the same environment.

Since air pollution can occur for both organic and synthetic and is largely environmental setting based, We can exclude that metric from our analysis and focuse more on livestock manure.
From my brief readings, most of the heavy metals concentrations in organics comes from livestock manures first and foremost. So lets start there.

It is still unclear how heavy metals make their way into livestock manure (the main ingredient for organic farmers ferts). There is much speculation that the lack of standards in animal feed has caused the problem. Producing animal feeds with little testing and low standards/regulations on acceptable testing levels may have an effect on the heavy metal concentrations in the manure. More research is needed to understand how the heavy metals testing standards of lifestock food affects the heavy metals concentration in their manure that end up in organic farm-produced human foods. As we know, lifestock usually eat feed that doesnt pass human standards. Human standards are much more stringent than that of animal feed standards, what may be unfit for human consumption may pass the test for animal consumption. For example, animal feeds often contain rye,wheat, oats, or barley that doesnt pass human standards. So we can reason to assume that since standards for animal feed are so poor, animal poop may have higher levels of heavy metals than compost from leftover human food compost.

Since most organic farmers for profit get the bulk of their ferts from livestock manures, and there is so little regulations on the animal feed market with lower standards than that of human consumption. I would partially agree and say that yes,
there is a higher chance for heavy metal concentrations in large scale organic farming soils.

However, I would also stipulate that the average home organics gardener in the same air quality conditions, may have lower heavy metal concentrations than organic farming, synthetic farming, or small scall synthetic gardening on average. This is in part due to the fact that most home organic gardeners have a higher propensity to use ferts that derive mostly from discarded human grade food and un-tampered yard compost (lawn clippings and wood free from chemical pesticides and other harmful compoound).

Interesting bit you mentioned so I tried to do my research for my own benefit. In summary of my readings I would say the verdict is not yet conclusive on organic ferts and more targetted studies must be brought to light before we can say for sure. I would not say that anything is proven as of yet. The case of the organic home gardener is not the same as the for profit organic farmer. While I would agree livestock maneur ferts derived from processed feed (the backbone of most for-profit organic produce) may possess heavy metal concentrations that are higher than that within synthetic ferts, I would also say the same cannot be said for the smaller scale organic ferts that derive from human graded food compost.

Considering this, I will be refraining from using livestock manures in my organic fertilizers and will instead focus on using composts full of human grade food waste and well sourced, untampered and untreated, yard clippings from my own residence. But I may also add that should I have chickens and those chickens only eat insects and seeds available form my yard that I would also consider using their manure as compost, as I am well aware of the heavy metals content of my yard; having my soil tested every other year and not using chemical treatments.