obama and his IRS issues

fishwhistle · May 28, 2013

One of my friends is a building inspector for the county i live in (cali) and he has had his hours cut to 32 or less per week from 40+ so that the COUNTY,a government entity,does not have to legally provide him with health insurance under obamacare.Sanvana if it so easy and cheap to buy insurance in cali why are the state,counties and cities looking for loopholes and ways to opt out?If they cant do it how can small business or private individuals be expected to do it?Do you seriously beleive you can properly insure a family of four for 150$ a month in california and not expect the insurer to go bankrupt almost immediately?I am paying 1300$ plus per month just for my wife and I,no kids,and we have been told increases are coming!Already United healthcare,Cigna,and aetna have opted out of being cali providers with MANY more to follow.I cant wait to hear how that buckfifty insurance works out for you,lol.

sanvanalona · May 28, 2013

fishwhistle said:
One of my friends is a building inspector for the county i live in (cali) and he has had his hours cut to 32 or less per week from 40+ so that the COUNTY,a government entity,does not have to legally provide him with health insurance under obamacare.Sanvana if it so easy and cheap to buy insurance in cali why are the state,counties and cities looking for loopholes and ways to opt out?If they cant do it how can small business or private individuals be expected to do it?Do you seriously beleive you can properly insure a family of four for 150$ a month in california and not expect the insurer to go bankrupt almost immediately?I am paying 1300$ plus per month just for my wife and I,no kids,and we have been told increases are coming!Already United healthcare,Cigna,and aetna have opted out of being cali providers with MANY more to follow.I cant wait to hear how that buckfifty insurance works out for you,lol.

yeah I guess that is the amazing thing about the law, because as you point out right now paying 1300 for a couple is ridiculous and I am equally as excited to see what/if anything changes for you post January. I am quite happy with the details of the silver plan, I am barely over the threshold for medi-cal with my income and medi-cal has been awesome in the last year when my lady was pregnant. I will keep you updated with the quality and longevity of my insurance if you wish, but I think that it will be apparent regardless in a year or so after implementation.

caregiverken · May 28, 2013

The prices of the plans depend on your income?:confused:
Why should the price of my health care insurance cost me more than it costs someone else?. o_O
And the people that are able to hide their income...of course, will get a better rate than me..:(

I busted my ass for every penny of my pension:mad:
..Now, I will be Pentalizedmaking more money than someone that didnt bother to work hard?

That doesnt seem fair

caregiverken · May 28, 2013

I am happy to help people in need....

But when someone that makes 5 bucks an hour decides to have 6 kids....and then,
wants me to help them take care of them, thats not cool...

Sure..ok I Will take care of their kids..I dont mind....But not the adults..!

sanvanalona · May 28, 2013

caregiverken said:
The prices of the plans depend on your income?:confused:
Why should the price of my health care insurance cost me more than it costs someone else?. o_O
And the people that are able to hide their income...of course, will get a better rate than me..:(

I busted my ass for every penny of my pension:mad:
..Now, I will be Pentalizedmaking more money than someone that didnt bother to work hard?

That doesnt seem fair

Yes I agree Ken. I understand the feeling of paying more while others pay less. I am still paying off taxes from a few years ago and feel this exact way at times, but then I also remind myself that we live in a society that has a bottom floor for everyone and therefore my taxes are necessary for those who are not able to rise above that bottom.....even if it is for unfair reasons like sheer laziness or even worse people who cheat the system. Thankfully most people at the bottom are not simply trying to get away with less work or cheating, sometimes things are not as good for people as they would like and they need a little more help than you or I do. Our tax system is designed to be progressive so that those at the top help those who could not figure it out, also because we live in a country that allows this success to anyone there apparently is a price to pay for that. To be fair though, you are paying for the bottom's healthcare as it is due to medicade/medicare/medical and it seems that with the preventative care associated with having health insurance it may not be as much anymore in concerns to tax dollars and essentially due to a more healthy society and less emergency room visits you might be getting more bang for your tax buck. Have you tried to calculate what the cost will be for you and your family? I am curious about how it works with a pension.

squiggly · May 28, 2013

Cort said:
Not missing the bus.

In #132 I clearly state, if they cant afford the requirement to buy insurance (a 7% tax for a single adult making 25k) they can always pay the penalty.

Forcing one to buy insurance that, even though its only $140 a month, many cant afford or fining those who dont. What was solved for those who cant afford insurance but dont qualify for handouts? 25k a year aint exactly big pimpin.

Okay here's the problem. You're implying there is a requirement to buy insurance. There isn't.

There is a requirement to pay the tax, you may alleviate the tax by buying insurance. That's how tax penalties work. It's a bit of a chicken before the egg argument you're making, except in this case the tax always come first. The tax is levied against you unless you demonstrate that you've retained insurance--which is to say this is nothing more than a tax hike.

The default case here is that you pay $95 or 1% of your income as a tax. This is the tax.

What happens if you go out and spend 7% of your income on health insurance is that the $95/1% tax which has been levied against you is no longer due. It doesn't ALSO become a "tax".

So its not a 7% tax, it's at WORST a 1% tax. Anyone making 25K qualifies for the government subsidy and will pay $150 a year. In fact, something like 50-60% of Americans qualify for the subsidy and a further ~35% have benefits through employers (many of which are government jobs).

The people who are left by the wayside on this one will tend to be extremely well off.

No one is forced to buy insurance at all. They are forced to pay a tax.

There is a tax penalty which encourages people to buy insurance, but it stops well short of forcing them.

It might seem like splitting hairs, but when you say it your way it makes it seem like the government is damning you if you do and damning you if you don't--when the reality couldn't be further from the truth.

What the policy is trying to do is to nudge America in a direction, and to be perfectly honest it has taken EXTREMELY conservative steps to do it. This is FAR from a healthcare overhaul.

People have, wrongly, assumed that everyone has to carry insurance and that this constitutes a tax by way of forced purchase. In fact it's the opposite. Everyone has to pay a tax, and may nix the tax by picking up insurance.

The government already pays for the shortfalls in medical coverage that Americans have. Hospitals, when bills come due for the uninsured, hit up Uncle Sam. They've been at this for years.

This tax pays for those shortfalls. The idea is that if you're insured, you are not part of the problem and thus don't need to contribute to this payment.

Secondarily, the law changes the way insurance is paid out (primarily that it cannot be denied based on pre-existing conditions, previously the insurance companies' biggest cash cow). It alleviates a bit of the pressure put on insurance companies by this policy by incentivizing the purchase of healthcare.

Not only will the exchanges make healthcare more affordable (because everyone will be able to compare prices side by side--this is simple economics and has been thoroughly demonstrated and borne out in test markets)--but it also makes it, in a backwards way, cheaper.

In short, this is simply a new tax (@ 1% of your income)--and buying insurance will earn for you a tax credit which alleviates that tax.

So lets say it costs you 1% of 40k or $400 for your yearly tax. If we divide that by 12 we end up with $33.33.
The idea, economically, is that you can either pay $33.33 a month

OR

You can purchase insurance for $170 a month.
BUT

Because the $33.33 a month is already gone one way or the other (as a tax or towards insurance) the insurance option really only has an opportunity cost of $136.67 a month. Like I said, in a backwards way it operates as a tax credit.
I think the big mistake that the administration made on this one is not having billed the thing as a tax to begin with, because that is what it is.

squiggly · May 28, 2013

caregiverken said:
Sure..ok I Will take care of their kids..I dont mind....But not the adults..!

Actually the 30 million + who have been insured through this change are disproportionally children for exactly this reason.

squiggly · May 28, 2013

fishwhistle said:
I am paying 1300$ plus per month just for my wife and I,no kids,and we have been told increases are coming!

Holy Jesus Christ what kind of insurance do you have?

That's way too high dude, I suggest you shop around honestly. I have 100% coverage (no split, no copay) and a $250 deductible for like $275 a month or something like that--and I'm a smoker with a history of cardiovascular issues when I signed up for the insurance.

Any insurance company who says increases are coming are out of their minds. You shouldn't be looking to retain them as insurers if that is the case. As soon as the exchanges open prices will plummet and they all know it. Consumers will have it spelled out for them very simply.

Company A -- $250/month
Company B -- $225/month
Company C -- $215/month
Company D -- $200/month

This is similar to what consumers will see. Which company would you pick?

In ALL test markets, consumers disproportionately picked Company D--within a few days Company A (typically the most successful and well known company in that area) went from the highest price to the lowest one. I'll give you three guesses why.

People who are paying through the nose (like you are) for insurance are precisely the reason why the government wanted to set up exchanges. Because insurance companies basically just charge whatever they damn well please at this point because there is no proper market set up. No place for comparison (because none of them offer you a solid quote until you are signed up--that is changing with this policy).

outwest · May 28, 2013

fishwhistle said:
One of my friends is a building inspector for the county i live in (cali) and he has had his hours cut to 32 or less per week from 40+ so that the COUNTY,a government entity,does not have to legally provide him with health insurance under obamacare.Sanvana if it so easy and cheap to buy insurance in cali why are the state,counties and cities looking for loopholes and ways to opt out?If they cant do it how can small business or private individuals be expected to do it?Do you seriously beleive you can properly insure a family of four for 150$ a month in california and not expect the insurer to go bankrupt almost immediately?I am paying 1300$ plus per month just for my wife and I,no kids,and we have been told increases are coming!Already United healthcare,Cigna,and aetna have opted out of being cali providers with MANY more to follow.I cant wait to hear how that buckfifty insurance works out for you,lol.

Companies have always cut people's hours to deny them benefits. Not new at all.

outwest

squiggly · May 28, 2013

There are reasons to oppose the law, and I am on board with that. It's everyone's right to disagree with it and to want something different.

However, it is silly to manufacture reasons which do not exist. Or to believe in ones which are incorrect when most of what there is to be said in the law has been put into plain english.

Let's do a quick round up of what beneficial things this law has done just to make it clear:

1. The worst insurance company abuses (cash cows as I call them) have been made illegal (cancelling coverage when someone becomes sick, denying care based on pre-existing conditions, refusing to insure at-risk children)

2. Children can stay on parents plans till age 26 (this is huge for parents looking to send their children to college).

3. Insurance companies are now required to provide preventative care at no additional cost.

4. Enormous discounts for seniors' prescriptions across the board (something Bush promised while delivering the opposite).

5. Insurance companies also can no longer charge more based on pre-existing conditions (this is huge for anyone who has had a major illness in the past who either lost their coverage or had to let it lapse due to financial hardship).

6. Small business with <50 employees are receiving huge tax credits for providing insurance. The credits are big enough that anyone qualifying for them would be fool not to take them (However, to be fair there is a huge problem here for a company with say, 51 employees. I think there should be a step down plan for companies as they grow and this is sorely missing).

7. Middle and lower class families are eligible for tax credits to buy insurance. Middle class, in this instance, is defined very broadly defined (I believe it stretches into $200k/household levels--I can check if people want me to).

8. Online marketplaces where insurance companies MUST COMPETE WITH ONE ANOTHER, which will drive prices MUCH lower.

9. No more annual or lifetime $$$ limits on health coverage (this is HUGE--it means if you get cancer you are COVERED for EVERYTHING, no ifs ands or buts. It also means the tiered system of charging people more for bigger lifetime/annual limits is gone. Another popular insurance company consumer abuse mechanism).

10. Women can no longer be charged more than men for the same type of coverage.

11. INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOW REQUIRED TO SPEND 80% OR MORE OF THEIR PREMIUM ON ACTUAL HEALTHCARE!!!!!!! (NOT CEO BONUSES AND GOLDEN PARACHUTES).

12. This policy greatly reduces the nations budget deficit.

13. 30 million + low class individuals (disproportionately children) now qualify for free healthcare.

There are more, but these are the most important changes which have been made--and they are ALL directly addressed by the law. There is no uncertainty here, the above 13 items are now the law of the land.

squiggly · May 28, 2013

outwest said:
Companies have always cut people's hours to deny them benefits. Not new at all.

outwest

When it comes to the government this is the long and short of what "smaller government" ultimately means. This is something which often gets left out when that buzz phrase is being used.

Mogrow · May 28, 2013

##### the black jesus ######
comin' for yer guns muthafrockers

Natural · May 28, 2013

sounds good on paper huh?..I wonder what the lines will be like?

They bumped Nurse Practitioners up to needing Doctorates now. It's all gravy though.

caregiverken · May 29, 2013

I'm just gonna hope for the best and prepare for the worst...:confused:

You guys wanna Know Why I don't trust our government?:mad:

Because they Made Cannabis Illeagal...They Knew it wasn't harmful. They still know it.
They didn't outlaw weed because they thought it was harmful.. or dangerous..

Squiggly and Sanvan; You guys sure seem to like and defend this lying sack of shit goverment we have...
And seem to trust them...How can you trust and believe what they say?.

Seems strange to me..o_O

caregiverken · May 29, 2013

What if,
The insurance companies start forcing certain meds and denying coverage to those that refuse vaccines and the like.?

"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."

kolah · May 29, 2013

This is exactly where it is going, Ken. The government "regulating" it is the same g-damn thing as running it. Big Gov makes the balls and they have the medical workers throw them. And they pay them well for doing the dirty work.

caveman4.20 · May 29, 2013

You know damn well they would nano microchip the fuck out of those vaccines

kolah · May 29, 2013

if they ain't doing it already.

caveman4.20 · May 29, 2013

They have been in military for a grip....i guess we give consent once were born in their hospitals and i here its becoming harder even illegal in some states to have your child at home oh the Irony

CelticEBE · May 29, 2013

The topic is way off from the original post....but since we are talking about Obamacare......................

obama and his IRS issues

obama and his IRS issues

fishwhistle

sanvanalona

caregiverken

Fear Not!

caregiverken

Fear Not!

sanvanalona

squiggly

squiggly

squiggly

outwest

Premium Gardener

squiggly

squiggly

Mogrow

Natural

caregiverken

Fear Not!

caregiverken

Fear Not!

kolah

caveman4.20

kolah

caveman4.20

CelticEBE

obama and his IRS issues

obama and his IRS issues

fishwhistle

sanvanalona

caregiverken

Fear Not!

caregiverken

Fear Not!

sanvanalona

squiggly

squiggly

squiggly

outwest

Premium Gardener

squiggly

squiggly

Mogrow

Natural

caregiverken

Fear Not!

caregiverken

Fear Not!

kolah

caveman4.20

kolah

caveman4.20

CelticEBE

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