there’s no buds or trichomes..
just wait and see if this grower or person wants advice on getting proper equipment, a kit already put together already, etc..
sounds like we’re being mean but we are all experienced and know what’s best, and if course we’ll help you out along the way, maybe even get some free stuff from other growers if this person is cool and wants to learn..

GNick55 said:

there’s no buds or trichomes..
just wait and see if this grower or person wants advice on getting proper equipment, a kit already put together already, etc..
sounds like we’re being mean but we are all experienced and know what’s best, and if course we’ll help you out along the way, maybe even get some free stuff from other growers if this person is cool and wants to learn..

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I'm not judging, my shit is in a closet lol... but you have to be able to control the environment to some degree or you're doomed from the get go. I've also dealt with aphids. All it takes is one hiding on the vein on the underside of a leaf and you'll be reinfested in a week... literally one, some can reproduce asexually.. and thier life cycle is so fast, one adult can make like 100 more in a week, and they go from nymph to adult in less than week. Nasty creatures.

GNick55 said:

there’s no buds or trichomes..
just wait and see if this grower or person wants advice on getting proper equipment, a kit already put together already, etc..
sounds like we’re being mean but we are all experienced and know what’s best, and if course we’ll help you out along the way, maybe even get some free stuff from other growers if this person is cool and wants to learn..

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@GNick55 Yeah, I'm coming to the conclusion that "a kit already put together" is the way to go (for me anyhow). Recommendations welcome. The aphids were introduced because (against advice I got here) I moved plants in and out. Long story. FWIW, the sheets may suck, but the garage is DARK when the door is closed and lights are off. I only put the sheets up in case I needed to quickly go in garage, or even worse, flip the lights during their nightime.. That doesn't happen hardly at all. And of course, the sheet stops the light from leaking out (somewhat). So it's more to keep the light in than keep light out.
I think I may have handled the aphid problem and now have a ladybug infestation :)
One thing you said, that didn't make sense to me... You said there were no buds or trichomes. I might have posted pictures of the lesser developed of the two plants. Can you look at these photos? I was going to make a separate post about "how do I know when to harvest". I have trouble seeing colors so "amber", "milky" don't mean much to me. To me though, I see "frostiness" which I assume is trichomes? And I see dense areas that seem "furry". Are these not beginning buds? Let me know what you think. Don't worry I have thick skin :). Actually, I've pretty much written these guys off as a learning experience.
I might try my luck at planting outdoors. Spring is coming up in Southern California. Recommendations welcome on which month to plant seeds and which month to plant clones. I've heard march. We have NO Frost ever, so that's not a concern. I know there are folks that only grow outdoors. Not sure how they avoid aphids. Are they less of a problem outdoor due to rain, wind, other pests, or just more plants for them to snack on?

For a successful indoor grow you need some things. Intake air filtering. Charcoal exhaust. Quality potting media. And a preventative program for pests and fungus. You need a tent. And an LED array light. And a few small things. Then you can grow some pest free dank. Just start simple. But I wouldn't smoke that plant. It's not worth it.

Well, your small vegging plant also has aphids now being in the same space. Those plants are not worth smoking, unless you wanna smoke all the bugs and bug shit too. Id take this as a learning experience, throw it out and start over. Those photos look nightmare like with all those bugs on em. Start with a proper setup, make a journal and get help here first. Those plants are not safe to smoke in my opinion

@Ponky and @Goodshit97
nailed it.. take this advice.. just throw them out already..
growing outdoors in spring in the ground is a great idea..

I agree with the guys, aside from the bugs, they appear to be absolutely soaked in neem... I wouldn't be smoking them.
I do outdoor. Aphids and about a thousand other pests are something you'll have to live with if you want to grow outside, you're on the opposite side of n the country, so I'm not sure exactly what pests are your most problematic. I will stress that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... it's way easier to keep them at bay than to eradicate them once they move in. I preventative spray throughout veg and into early flower (avoiding buds) with Lost Coast plant therapy. I have many companion plants that various bugs don't like in my patch, lavender, oregano, chamomile, nasturtium, basil, various mints, many marigolds. I inspect daily to keep on top of shit, last year I scrogged and it made maintenance easier. I prune and defoliate for airflow. Several good outdoor growers here, though most prefer indoor. It's more work outside, more unpredictable, more factors you can't control... but I love outdoor so I do it anyway... probably a bit easier in Cali than it is for me in the Northeast, you won't be covering for frost in October I'm sure lol.

TSD said:

I agree with the guys, aside from the bugs, they appear to be absolutely soaked in neem... I wouldn't be smoking them.
I do outdoor. Aphids and about a thousand other pests are something you'll have to live with if you want to grow outside, you're on the opposite side of n the country, so I'm not sure exactly what pests are your most problematic. I will stress that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... it's way easier to keep them at bay than to eradicate them once they move in. I preventative spray throughout veg and into early flower (avoiding buds) with Lost Coast plant therapy. I have many companion plants that various bugs don't like in my patch, lavender, oregano, chamomile, nasturtium, basil, various mints, many marigolds. I inspect daily to keep on top of shit, last year I scrogged and it made maintenance easier. I prune and defoliate for airflow. Several good outdoor growers here, though most prefer indoor. It's more work outside, more unpredictable, more factors you can't control... but I love outdoor so I do it anyway... probably a bit easier in Cali than it is for me in the Northeast, you won't be covering for frost in October I'm sure lol.

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No neem oil. I didn't get around to trying that. Just used liquid soap in water sprayed on. Then a few days later, ladybugs. I'll check out the Lost Coast Plant Therapy. Thanks. I have many of the plants you mentioned or they are easy to grow here (mint, chamomile, oregano, lavender.).
I'll have to do some serious thinking. I wasn't thinking it would be this difficult. It is called "weed" after all :). Perhaps I'm the type of guy who belongs at the dispensery!

bibsoconner said:

No neem oil. I didn't get around to trying that. Just used liquid soap in water sprayed on. Then a few days later, ladybugs. I'll check out the Lost Coast Plant Therapy. Thanks. I have many of the plants you mentioned or they are easy to grow here (mint, chamomile, oregano, lavender.).
I'll have to do some serious thinking. I wasn't thinking it would be this difficult. It is called "weed" after all :). Perhaps I'm the type of guy who belongs at the dispensery!

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Ok soap then lol... something shiny I don't wanna smoke. You get out what you put in as far as effort. Low effort, lower quality usually. I have a friend that grew a bunch of outdoor with almost zero care, he keeps saying how great it is... I bite my tongue, but it's fluffy, covered in bug corpses, and harsh as hell, horrible flavor. Growing top quality outdoor is honestly quite difficult, depending on your climate... anyone can throw a plant in the ground, water it occasionally and harvest it, assuming it lives... but that won't get you top quality weed most times. Indoor is easier as far as control, as long as you have a proper set up... but as I'm sure you've seen here on the forum, plenty of Indoor growers have a host of different issues, pests included. Its not "hard" to grow, its labor intensive. You pay for your bud with your time and effort, or with your cash at your local dealer... either way... you gonna pay lol.

TSD said:

Ok soap then lol... something shiny I don't wanna smoke. You get out what you put in as far as effort. Low effort, lower quality usually. I have a friend that grew a bunch of outdoor with almost zero care, he keeps saying how great it is... I bite my tongue, but it's fluffy, covered in bug corpses, and harsh as hell, horrible flavor. Growing top quality outdoor is honestly quite difficult, depending on your climate... anyone can throw a plant in the ground, water it occasionally and harvest it, assuming it lives... but that won't get you top quality weed most times. Indoor is easier as far as control, as long as you have a proper set up... but as I'm sure you've seen here on the forum, plenty of Indoor growers have a host of different issues, pests included. Its not "hard" to grow, its labor intensive. You pay for your bud with your time and effort, or with your cash at your local dealer... either way... you gonna pay lol.

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outdoor would be easy for this person as long as they keep a grow journal so we can help when needed.. and during the year save up and buy the stuff needed for indoor growing and check this site for used equipment etc..

GNick55 said:

outdoor would be easy for this person as long as they keep a grow journal so we can help when needed.. and during the year save up and buy the stuff needed for indoor growing and check this site for used equipment etc..

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Yes, ask questions as soon as you have them @bibsoconner ...not 2 weeks after the plant started knocking on death's door like many people here do lol, and then say "I dunno what happened, it was just fine!" Mmmmk, no it wasn't. Learning to read the plants is a necessary skill. I imagine growing outdoor in Cali is a cake walk compared to my climate lol.

TSD said:

I imagine growing outdoor in Cali is a cake walk compared to my climate lol.

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You would think but no......same pile of shit. Just a different day.

@bibsoconner - I understand the emotional attachment you have to these plants as you've probably put a lot of BS&T into keeping them alive but chalk up your first grow to a learning experience.

I'm going to join the chorus and say start over but if you still want to push forward my suggestion would be to remove the light barrier you have now and replace it with some black plastic sheeting. At least this way you'll be able to keep your sick plant in total darkness and be able to get your hormonal responses going in the direction you want them to go and be able to finish out the plant but, as has been mentioned, it'll be a rocky road to get there.

Going forward my suggestion to you would be if you're going to grow outdoors, plant in a spot that won't be prone to weather so that you don't have to take the plant inside and have happen what is happening now. Depending on your area, right now would be a great time to put down seedlings ready to harvest in October. The bug issue just comes with growing outdoors and the best thing you can do to keep the hordes from taking your plant down is to keep it as healthy as possible.

There are many great outdoor growers that can guide you through a successful harvest just like there are many indoor growers that can do the same for you here. One thing many newb growers don't get is that growing outdoors and indoors are two different animals trying to accomplish the same thing so technique is going to be crucial in both. That's where the forum comes in to play for you. We can show you the techniques you need to follow to be successful.

Lastly, if you're going to buy an indoor kit I suggest you seriously look at AC Infinity for your tent and environmental needs. Lighting is subjective to the growers preference but I suggest you forgo all the COB style grow lights and go with a bar style light. I initially bought COB style lights and, even though they are good on their own, I like the coverage the bar lights give you in the tent for a more even harvest. HLG, ViparSpectra, Spiderfarmer are probably the most common high end lights most use but there are others like Scynce that claim their high end LED's are superior. I'd stick to something like the first 3 I mentioned. Once you get more experience you can decide whether you want to upgrade to a light like that.