Wow that was a mouthful Very eloquent. Peace There are many passionate organic growers here. Gotta love the soil food web and the universe below our feet. Feed the soil and not the plantgah those dudes are funny. Its like fishing or golf nowadays.
Organics is a massive subject, far more detailed and complex than a super soil intimates. If we take global soil profile studies, there is none anywhere that lacks the elemental values needed to grow a plant. Given a single grain of sand likely contains enough N to feed an acre of maize for a year, its more about learning how to access the tools from those things around you.
Buying a super soil made up of 50 components shipped from all over the world, kind of defeats the subject before you begin. Now I know my organics sequesters more carbon than a mineral rockwool grow, but it might not make me a zero if I have 1000's of miles on my soil before I plant.
I use a simple coco and home sourced peat mix, no perlite, no amendments, just me my plant and several billion bacterial workers a heap of friendly fungus and mold, and a bunch of resonance in a balanced environment with a tweak of thermodynamic nano magic.
thanks I posted that before the bowl hit LOLWow that was a mouthful Very eloquent. Peace There are many passionate organic growers here. Gotta love the soil food web and the universe below our feet. Feed the soil and not the plant
I figgered........:smoking: I get all wordy and flowery too after a good rip....thanks I posted that before the bowl hit LOL
quite, it is now undisputed that organics is a greener, more balanced and safer way to grow and feed the world, while maintaining environmental responsibility. We do have a lot of work to do. How many people still apply garden lime to soils? This is a common search result if you search soil acidification, but this plethora of bad data is what people will find and so they will apply lime and continue to destroy soil profiles..more on..more on...moron. There is a latency between academic research and SEO bots or practice on the ground. Poor practice like limimg soils is common place and yet no one really knows why they do it or why soils become acidic in the first place. The data is at best a sticking plaster from a time when human knowledge was less, at worst it is causing damage deliberately miss leading and dangerous.Like @Ecompost says organics is a huge topic and in time i think there will be a section with lots of forum entries. I think the goal of organics is to be able to produce your crop with a sort of 'minimalist' approach. To get things working in a self-sustaining way. The more you understand how plants work the more you can cut away at all the extra unnecessary things. I'm pretty sure there are members here who know a lot about organics and if a section is made the experts will find their way there.
I found one of your posts when I got here, it was fascinating and organic in baseNot to blow my own horn but I do post up a lot of stuff organics wise in the ferts, and advanced techniques sections. I didn't realize we had an organics section per se till @Seamaiden told me it was buried in the grow section.
Check out those forums and look for stickies as well.
A man after my own heart. Sounds like you know your chemistry. Just the carbon footprint alone in the mfgring of syn ferts is a tremendous burden to the planet. I am actually feeling guilty with my C footprint using grow lights as I dont have access to a secure outdoor grow site. Then there is and I am not bashing anyone but the whole drain to waste thing is not a very green sustainable way to go either. Yes most home growers arent the major contributors but it all adds up. Our industrialized way of farming is killing the natural balance of the soil and the planet.quite, it is now undisputed that organics is a greener, more balanced and safer way to grow and feed the world, while maintaining environmental responsibility. We do have a lot of work to do. How many people still apply garden lime to soils? This is a common search result if you search soil acidification, but this plethora of bad data is what people will find and so they will apply lime and continue to destroy soil profiles..more on..more on...moron. There is a latency between academic research and SEO bots or practice on the ground. Poor practice like limimg soils is common place and yet no one really knows why they do it or why soils become acidic in the first place. The data is at best a sticking plaster from a time when human knowledge was less, at worst it is causing damage deliberately miss leading and dangerous.
Me and you knowing how soil systems around the world are charged, and knowing that cations are likely to replace or change the state of a natural charge and so cause compaction, over watering or fertilisation increases the lack of oxygen, microbe die back or bacterial bloom via anaerobes and so pH swings and that its microbes and organic acids like humics that scavenge free H+ions or radicals in the soil, reverse compaction, introduce Oxygen, chelate Iron calcium Magnesium and so will always fix not mask soil problems leading to profile collapse, acidicfication by Al+++ or H+ ions as part of ion exchange is not enough if more people don't access this new data.
If we document it here, it will help more people get it right without the need to go to lime or continue bad practice like Epsom Salts another one with no data that people use like its a miracle solution and not a damaging salt treatment with no sciene to back its use.
And let me ask you this, did you ever at any point use the 2 week flush method? I'll bet if you did now that you are organic you are seeing better yields. I always felt that taking the nutes away during the last 2 weeks was counterproductive. Most strains pack on can most of their yield in last 2-3 weeks. Organics done right require no flush.no trad NPK, just coco/peat media, fungus, mold and bac microbes with 3 applications of nano breathe for organic CO2 augmentation. We added 1-5ml/L K+Amino with each irrigation, and weekly Bio Balance Media and Bi Weekly Bio Balance Foliar to scavenge any extra radicals and keep micros chelated, no flush, all products from Better Organix www.betterorganix.com and all media is repurposed, Plant is Archive Seeds Lemon Amnesia this is day 68, last full day before harvest.
you are I think right mate. Do you use sup CO2 to make sure you are using every watt of light? I use 600 lamps with a sup CO2 called nano breathe, I make the product mate but not trying to flog it. It delivers sustainable intracellular organic nano milled and thermodynamic Ca, Mg and of course CO2 which is arrived by using both water capillary, and free H+ ions from the splitting of water during photosynthesis. It works during lights on to allow a third more electron transport than background CO2 at 350ppms. If I add this to phototrophs, I can boost added ppms CO2 by reusing waste gases from transpiration, pushing these back to the plant as CO2 via microbe slow release when needed. When I combine phototrophs with Breathe, I sit at about 650ppms CO2 with no waste, no fix vents, no closed systems. further I can apply my CO2 product on outdoor plants, increasing lux capacity from 40,000 to about 97,000 at 650ppms. So this all means I use every watt of power from my lamps light energy with zero waste, Users with lamps that are hid and above 400w per m2 with out augmenting co2 are wasting energy to the tune of about 40% or 200 watts per light hour in waste. Of course not many grow shop owers are going to stop you wasting money on a 600 cause that means more on the fans, more on the ducting, more of the blah.A man after my own heart. Sounds like you know your chemistry. Just the carbon footprint alone in the mfgring of syn ferts is a tremendous burden to the planet. I am actually feeling guilty with my C footprint using grow lights as I dont have access to a secure outdoor grow site. Then there is and I am not bashing anyone but the whole drain to waste thing is not a very green sustainable way to go either. Yes most home growers arent the major contributors but it all adds up. Our industrialized way of farming is killing the natural balance of the soil and the planet.
never brother, I have known for a long time now that there is no correlation between the nutrients in a media solution, and the nutrients found in your plant cell/ plasma tissue. It makes no sense to try to drown a soil system to rid it of salts. It makes sense to run an organic acid that would sweep up and render harmless any excess if such a think ever existed in my gardens. I prefer to keep within safe salt levels, never run over 100ppms P etc, and I was lucky, an old wise man taught me years ago, less is more in soil and all nutes are luxury levels which we rarely need. I made my nutes to suit the 99% not the 1% of ultra greedy plants that is 1 in a thousand. We can boost if needed, but we cant really take away once we have tipped too muchAnd let me ask you this, did you ever at any point use the 2 week flush method? I'll bet if you did now that you are organic you are seeing better yields. I always felt that taking the nutes away during the last 2 weeks was counterproductive. Most strains pack on can most of their yield in last 2-3 weeks. Organics done right require no flush.
Well said. Yes I use C02 augmentation, with my native desert temps I get better use from it due to higher room temps.you are I think right mate. Do you use sup CO2 to make sure you are using every watt of light? I use 600 lamps with a sup CO2 called nano breathe, I make the product mate but not trying to flog it. It delivers sustainable intracellular organic nano milled and thermodynamic Ca, Mg and of course CO2 which is arrived by using both water capillary, and free H+ ions from the splitting of water during photosynthesis. It works during lights on to allow a third more electron transport than background CO2 at 350ppms. If I add this to phototrophs, I can boost added ppms CO2 by reusing waste gases from transpiration, pushing these back to the plant as CO2 via microbe slow release when needed. When I combine phototrophs with Breathe, I sit at about 650ppms CO2 with no waste, no fix vents, no closed systems. further I can apply my O2 product on outdoor plants, increasing lux capacity from 40,000 to about 97,000 at 650ppms. So this all means I use every watt of power from my lamps light energy with zero waste, Users with lamps that are hid and above 400w per m2 with out augmenting co2 are wasting energy to the tune of about 40% or 200 watts per light hour in waste. Of course not many grow shop owers are going to stop you wasting money on a 600 cause that means more on the fans, more on the ducting, more of the blah.
The only thing that will really save us is a deeper understanding of where we are wasting and if it possible to mitigate, data must be shared out of human duty and be kept forever in an open domain.
for sure, its a part package rather than solution on its own. I tend to run at about 26-27c at 650ppms CO2 and 65-70% rh. In summer I boost the CO2 to 1000 and am forced to run higher RH due to latent heat and my reluctance to continue to try to cool everything with high waste HVAC systems. We do have a larger grow that takes advantage of a cardboard sea water fed evaporation system but I cant get my head around ownig more hvac. The wonder that is glomus deserticola is extremely helpful as a stress reducer in the rhizo and the CO2 of course can regulate the guard cells with phototrophs being a good safety net also for higher temps imo.Well said. Yes I use C02 augmentation, with my native desert temps I get better use from it due to higher room temps.
Brother, you're using some acronyms I'm not familiar with.yes sub sections might help, also meta tags which I am sure happens already. Organics is a massive subject and so it might be wise to consider it more than a url which points to soil being the beginning and end or acting in any way that might seem limited. Discussions on ISR and plant health are quite different from soil recipes and again liquid organics versus bio organics, vegan versus animal, growing with microbes, latest research such as that on Rhizophagy, or explaining why lime is never the answer to buffer media, how VOC's and bacterial modulation can be exploited by modern microbe assisted organix. How organics and carbon are friends, what happens to P and our elements and so much more
Do you have any brochures or product data sheets on the system you described above.?(nano breathe) This technology is of interest to me. If so please PM me with the info as doing it via PM will keep this thread clean and keep you out of trouble with @logic unless you are of course in negotiations with him to be a site vendor.you are I think right mate. Do you use sup CO2 to make sure you are using every watt of light? I use 600 lamps with a sup CO2 called nano breathe, I make the product mate but not trying to flog it. It delivers sustainable intracellular organic nano milled and thermodynamic Ca, Mg and of course CO2 which is arrived by using both water capillary, and free H+ ions from the splitting of water during photosynthesis. It works during lights on to allow a third more electron transport than background CO2 at 350ppms. If I add this to phototrophs, I can boost added ppms CO2 by reusing waste gases from transpiration, pushing these back to the plant as CO2 via microbe slow release when needed. When I combine phototrophs with Breathe, I sit at about 650ppms CO2 with no waste, no fix vents, no closed systems. further I can apply my CO2 product on outdoor plants, increasing lux capacity from 40,000 to about 97,000 at 650ppms. So this all means I use every watt of power from my lamps light energy with zero waste, Users with lamps that are hid and above 400w per m2 with out augmenting co2 are wasting energy to the tune of about 40% or 200 watts per light hour in waste. Of course not many grow shop owers are going to stop you wasting money on a 600 cause that means more on the fans, more on the ducting, more of the blah.
The only thing that will really save us is a deeper understanding of where we are wasting and if it possible to mitigate, data must be shared out of human duty and be kept forever in an open domain.
Rhizophagy= eating of rootsBrother, you're using some acronyms I'm not familiar with.
For me, VOCs=volatile organic compounds, for example. What's ISR?
Rhizophagy..? Now you've piqued my interest, especially when you're hinting that carbonates and bicarbonates are not a good answer for buffering, reminds me of a paper I read some years ago on how farmers irrigating with particularly hard water (high in CO3, mostly CaCO3) experience such buildup that their soils are made too alkaline to continue farming on.
@logic, would it be possible in the coming months to make a forum that better addresses all that comes with organic cultivation? We could possibly even use an aquaponic section, MANY people are growing cannabis in AP, I did some late season plants myself this year.
I think the user base would respond very positively. :)
Heres a link to the science https://www.researchgate.net/public...A_New_Dimension_of_Plant-Microbe_Interactions:p That one I got (phages = eats). What about the others?
Do you have any brochures or product data sheets on the system you described above.?(nano breathe) This technology is of interest to me. If so please PM me with the info as doing it via PM will keep this thread clean and keep you out of trouble with @logic unless you are of course in negotiations with him to be a site vendor.
Well thank you so much. :DMight be on the website. I just bought some myself, along with a few other things. :)
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