Organic Soil 'flushing'

john martin · Nov 16, 2014

So, I grow in organic soil with organic nutes, yadda yadda ...

I have in the past tried many different flushing methods...

Some of the best smoke in my area comes from people that run 15 gallons of water through a 3 gallon pot all at once, and this is done 14 days before chop, then nothing but water is given.

With that said, I have recently had the valuable opportunity of hiring the guy who grew the absolute TASTIEST sour diesel I have ever had in my life hands down to come consult for me, and his advice to me on flushing was:

"2.5 weeks before chop, give them nothing but water, and have extremely minimal runoff."

Well, I have done my previous mentioned method 3 weeks before chop, 2 weeks before chop, 1 week before chop, tried flushing agents, etc., but I have always ran extra water through the medium in an effort to 'flush' the soil out.

I am thinking that the method he recommended to me may be more effective at flushing, because it doesn't wash out all the beneficial life out of the soil. I think in organic soil, with organic nutes that when you 'flush' as my previous method mentioned, you are washing out all the bacteria, but the soil is still left with tons of food that slowly, but surely remains breaking down.

I am thinking that with his 2.5 week pure water, no runoff method, that it stops adding new things to be broken down, but at the same time allows the beneficial bacteria in the soil to break down and use up what remains in the soil, so that by harvest time there is not much left.

I also am thinking that some sort of process occurs with this method that allows some process to occur in the soil that converts to the buds being much tastier.

I am sure there is a lot more to it than this, but with the quality of this guy's smoke (I mean 1 in 1,000, that GOOD... so good a penny pincher would HAPPILY pay an extra 100$ an ounce for just to have to smoke), there has to be something to his method.

This guy's smoke doesn't burn white like my friends who do a runoff flush, but it has a clean grey ash, tastes soooo smooth and sooooo amazing.

So, with that said, I would appreciate ANY feedback on all of this, and would also like to hear how any of you organic soil growers flush for maximum taste and for maximum smoothness.

Flaaaavaaaa Flaaaaaaav LOL

3G Labs · Nov 16, 2014

Everyone has their own personal methods. Sounds like your on your way to finding your own.
I'm not sure bacteria can be flushed out of soil.
In my grows I feed/flush with a lot of runoff , keeps the pots from building up salts imo.

Seamaiden · Nov 16, 2014

Why are you flushing when you're ostensibly growing organically?? I don't flush, EVER. Why? I'm not using the kinds of fertilizers, minerals or nutrients that build up in the soil to the point of needing to be flushed (what a waste!). I feed the soil, too, not the plant.

And, think about this--how does one flush the earth when growing outdoors? One doesn't. One goes with it.

That life can't just be "washed" out of the soil. I think both of you should get to reading. Start with Teaming With Microbes. There's a lot of good information in there and I really think it'll help you guys better understand the processes you're trying to harness.

caveman4.20 · Nov 16, 2014

The term flush is being mutilated, I've tried using the term rinse but ya I'm going to stay out of the "flush" threads from now on. good luck

3G Labs · Nov 16, 2014

caveman4.20 said:
The term flush is being mutilated, I've tried using the term rinse but ya I'm going to stay out of the "flush" threads from now on. good luck

Truth, and I've learned my lesson also. Apparently flush threads are vigilantly upheld to high standards by one of those mythical Hydra's.

3G Labs · Nov 16, 2014

Seamaiden said:
There's a lot of good information in there and I really think it'll help you guys better understand the processes you're trying to harness.

My apologies i should have gone into more detail, currently i'm doing coco grows .
The process i am trying to harness is a sugar sink. By feeding only water the last 14 days= the plant uses all the nutrients in the roots and begins to pull all the nutrients in the plants to "sink" area's. In essence the plant thinks it's dying, pumps all it's got from the roots,leaves,stems to the important area's (seed production/flowers). You also get the "fall colors" affect to the leaves, and buds (if it's got the genes)
http://www.sparknotes.com/biology/plants/essentialprocesses/section2.rhtml

caveman4.20 · Nov 16, 2014

One an intense factor underestimated is this plants will to survive, the plant itself will feed the rizho from foliage and branches. WhIle the plant is transporting this food for your micro beasties it is also correcting deficiencies and ph imbalances.

john martin · Nov 16, 2014

Seamaiden, I flush, because if I keep feeding the plants they smoke tastes horrible, organic or not.

When I say flush, I don't just mean running tons of water through it, I also mean tapering off nutes, feeding plain water, all of that.

This thread is meant to be a friendly conversation of any and all methods to make organic soil grown nugs taste and smoke their best and I'm open to suggestions, thus the purpose of this thread.

I assume you agree with the nothing but water for 2.5 weeks method, or do you actually feed your plants till' the end?

About flushing outdoors ... I have never smoked outdoor nugs that smoked as smooth or tasted as good as indoor nugs and I have smoked my fair share of outdoor nugs.

I have smoked some amazing outdoor, but it never hits quite as smooth and clean...

I'll look into that book, thx!

midwestdensies · Nov 16, 2014

What "organic" nutes are you using. Is yiur friend amended soil? Littlemore info and i could lend an opinion

john martin · Nov 16, 2014

I use roots organic line and make tea out of the dry amendments.

My friend that suggests to give nothing but water for 2.5 weeks follows similiar method.

My friends that do 'volume flushing' 2 weeks before chop also do teas.

(I use roots organic 'original' soil)

Only thing I dry scratch is the beneficial bacteria (oregonism xl).

Only non organic nutes I use is soul synthetics - amino aid, and bud swell.

midwestdensies · Nov 16, 2014

Right on. Sounds like your process is pretty spot on. I notice better taste out of amended soil water and tea only. So your just trying to get a better flavor for your meds?
Id say the less runoff should be good or better and would think life is flushed out and could potentially be needed @john martin

john martin · Nov 16, 2014

Yeah, I'm all about taste, taste, taste. Open to suggestions.

In the past I dry amended a lot, and I think (hoping) that making them into tea and straining the solids out will help a lot with taste.

Natural · Nov 16, 2014

6 weeks in and I'm still giving them a good amount of base, rather than taper..I just get going with 3 weeks water only these days..plus some strains just don't drink much that last half week or so..that puts you at 2 weeks. Might work great if you're a light feeder and taper diligently. Not an easy prop if your perpetual and don't have the time to adjust feed for each individual.

Natural · Nov 16, 2014

john martin said:
I use roots organic line and make tea out of the dry amendments.

My friend that suggests to give nothing but water for 2.5 weeks follows similiar method.

My friends that do 'volume flushing' 2 weeks before chop also do teas.

(I use roots organic 'original' soil)

Only thing I dry scratch is the beneficial bacteria (oregonism xl).

Only non organic nutes I use is soul synthetics - amino aid, and bud swell.

teas after 5 weeks is just going to make more food available in the soil web. I would cut the teas and just go with maybe some carbs at the onset of plain water feeds.

john martin · Nov 16, 2014

I've been considering giving double dose of beneficial bacteria during week 4 in an effort to break down as much remaining food in the soil as possible.

The feed schedule I follow for some reason (unknown to me) recommends giving seabird guano and cal/mag up until the very last week of flower, but that just seems plain crazy to me.

I think I'll stick with your advice and do my last tea during week 5, then a light feeding of liquid nutes (also brewed) during week 6 and first half of week 7, then just give pure water for the last 2.5 weeks. (10 week strain example).

Natural · Nov 17, 2014

ya I like to pull at 9 weeks.
As for product feeding schedules..they sell more products that way..lol. I learned real quick to cut liquid nutes to half the recommended doses and include a good break at the end. Organic stuff..even dry nutes and molasses at the end will screw with the flavor imnvho..so I'm def right there with ya on that one.

john martin · Nov 17, 2014

Weird thing is, with roots organic, even with their 'master feed schedule' you actually end up barely feeding the plant enough. They aren't like most companies trying to push more nutes on you (it seems).
Even on my strains that like minimal feeding, I have to up the doses. Their feed schedule is 5 ML with every watering, instead of 15 ML with every other.
I agree with you though, but the above is why I even consider taking their advice, and might do a test run on one plant with their recommendations.

I'm curious if anyone here sees any benefits in giving cal/mag that late in the game.

Natural · Nov 17, 2014

If they're hungry..feed em. No 2 strains eat the same. I feed G.O. the heavy dose schedule twice..then a plain water feed. Salty shit like GH and Botanicare needs a lighter dose though. And if you use an organic line and bennies..they will get hungry and grow faster too imo
Some old timers say that it will make the buds fluffier if you keep up the CalMag late. I cut it back to nothing around week 5 with the teas. If you're not comfortable there..just cut way back.

Seamaiden · Nov 17, 2014

3G Labs said:
My apologies i should have gone into more detail, currently i'm doing coco grows .
The process i am trying to harness is a sugar sink. By feeding only water the last 14 days= the plant uses all the nutrients in the roots and begins to pull all the nutrients in the plants to "sink" area's. In essence the plant thinks it's dying, pumps all it's got from the roots,leaves,stems to the important area's (seed production/flowers). You also get the "fall colors" affect to the leaves, and buds (if it's got the genes)
http://www.sparknotes.com/biology/plants/essentialprocesses/section2.rhtml

Hmm.. I find myself wondering more about what's fully (completely? totally?) happening when I use sugars to force a fade. Fascinating.

john martin said:
Seamaiden, I flush, because if I keep feeding the plants they smoke tastes horrible, organic or not.

When I say flush, I don't just mean running tons of water through it, I also mean tapering off nutes, feeding plain water, all of that.

This thread is meant to be a friendly conversation of any and all methods to make organic soil grown nugs taste and smoke their best and I'm open to suggestions, thus the purpose of this thread.

I assume you agree with the nothing but water for 2.5 weeks method, or do you actually feed your plants till' the end?

About flushing outdoors ... I have never smoked outdoor nugs that smoked as smooth or tasted as good as indoor nugs and I have smoked my fair share of outdoor nugs.

I have smoked some amazing outdoor, but it never hits quite as smooth and clean...

I'll look into that book, thx!

I personally can't tell the difference between indoor and outdoor if the same methods (organic vs chemical salt) have been used, so I just can't speak to that. I've smoked some incredibly high quality OD bud, including at events like the Emerald Cup. And it's clear that peoples' methods of organic cultivation differ rather widely. I rarely feed the plants directly, because I've been feeding the soil. That means that throughout the season my plants are usually only getting water.

That said, IF you're truly growing in an organic manner, and that means *not* feeding the plant but instead feeding the soil, there is no need for a flush and in fact, you won't really be able to flush or rinse or taper nutrients (can't do that if you're not trying to directly feed the plant). I think that may be why you're experiencing that difference you're discussing here. No one's ever told me (since going organic) that my stuff hits harsh or doesn't burn well.

So, reading what you've posted makes me think that you and your friend really would benefit from both Teaming With Microbes, and the second book that came out last year (available on Kindle! have it on my tablet, still gotsta read, will do this winter) Teaming With Nutrients.

So... hmm.. do I agree with the 'nothing but water for 2.5 weeks' method? Um... kind of? But not really.

john martin said:
I use roots organic line and make tea out of the dry amendments.

My friend that suggests to give nothing but water for 2.5 weeks follows similiar method.

My friends that do 'volume flushing' 2 weeks before chop also do teas.

(I use roots organic 'original' soil)

Only thing I dry scratch is the beneficial bacteria (oregonism xl).

Only non organic nutes I use is soul synthetics - amino aid, and bud swell.

Oregonism XL is a mycorrhizae application and should be used at the beginning. It takes months for mycorrhiza to become established, so there's really no point in continuing to apply any mixture. Mycorrhiza are fungi, not bacteria. I really think you guys would enjoy that book, seriously!

Natural said:
teas after 5 weeks is just going to make more food available in the soil web. I would cut the teas and just go with maybe some carbs at the onset of plain water feeds.

Carbs = bacteria food. Also plant food, but I'm not sure how much would be taken up in the presence of a good population of microbes.

caveman4.20 · Nov 17, 2014

I would think that once food ran out they would eachother but see that's only if plant could not sustain them with its roots exudates

Organic Soil 'flushing'

Organic Soil 'flushing'

john martin

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Natural

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john martin

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Seamaiden

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Organic Soil 'flushing'

Organic Soil 'flushing'

john martin

3G Labs

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

caveman4.20

3G Labs

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caveman4.20

john martin

midwestdensies

john martin

midwestdensies

john martin

Natural

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