BudBogart said:

I'm still stumbling over auto clones. I googled both those strains and found no references to either King Louie or white fire autos.
You may want to check your information because if they are NOT auto you can still revert these plants to growing leaf and having a normal harvest come fall.
Growers use photosensitive clones by manipulating the light to extend the clones growing period.
Autos are not affected by light period manipulation and a clone from an auto would die from old age at the same time as the " mother" plant. A clone from an auto would spend most of its remaining life growing roots instead of buds.

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Well so far they are showing no signs of going back to veg state but I am keeping an eye on them if I see any sign I will cut the light immideiately but this is a test run I guess to see how things go and of its worth planting again

Nog said:

Well the longest day of the year where I am is 14 hours and 24 minutes daylight.
And plants wont flower in that.

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If you take clones that have been on 18/6 and put them out on that photoperiod, they *will* flip. They won't finish properly, but they will flip.

BudBogart said:

Okay, my bad... When you said they were clones I assumed they would not be autos. My understanding is that it is rare to clone autos as it disrupts a very short growing period.

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Yeah... cloning autos? I've only ever grown the accidental auto, never on purpose.
@Ovireyallday -- your plants are in a confused state and are revegging. I've written a thread on that which has been nicely fleshed out by the folks who love growing OGs (I've never done a straight OG, only crosses). It's in my signature line. I see both singles and triples on the plants in all your pix.

Ovireyallday said:

Yeah they've been outside in the sun since they were cloned and have responded well if you ask me I am aware of the sun cycles and the process but was made aware that these are auto flowering clones so they flower 60 days no matter how much sun but stay pretty small compared to normal flowering plants this is my first time working with these but my seeded plants are getting bigger and bigger every day and should be ready around sept

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This still doesn't make sense to me. How can you clone an autoflowering plant if it's a time-based thing as far as veg & flower? How do you get it to flip back if it's not photoperiodic? The fact that your King Louie is clearly revegging suggests it is not in fact an autoflower.

Seamaiden said:

If you take clones that have been on 18/6 and put them out on that photoperiod, they *will* flip. They won't finish properly, but they will flip.


Yeah... cloning autos? I've only ever grown the accidental auto, never on purpose.
@Ovireyallday -- your plants are in a confused state and are revegging. I've written a thread on that which has been nicely fleshed out by the folks who love growing OGs (I've never done a straight OG, only crosses). It's in my signature line. I see both singles and triples on the plants in all your pix.

This still doesn't make sense to me. How can you clone an autoflowering plant if it's a time-based thing as far as veg & flower? How do you get it to flip back if it's not photoperiodic? The fact that your King Louie is clearly revegging suggests it is not in fact an autoflower.

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Can you see signs of re vegging on my pics ?

Ovireyallday said:

Can you see signs of re vegging on my pics ?

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Do you see any references to King Louie auto on Google? Hope you have success, best of luck.

BudBogart said:

Do you see any references to King Louie auto on Google? Hope you have success, best of luck.

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I do yes

Ovireyallday said:

I do yes

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http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/King_Louis_XIII/Clone_Only_Strains/

Ovireyallday said:

http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/King_Louis_XIII/Clone_Only_Strains/

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Thank you for the link.
No where is the word auto mentioned. No where is the word ruderalis mentioned, yet all autos are made ny crossing either sativa or indica with ruderalis.
Your genealogy is easy. KL is a cut from OG Kush.
The 60 days is a reference to approximate time needed for the buds to fully mature after they start to flower which is triggered by a reduction in hours of light. You triggered this flowering when you placed the plants outdoors without transitioning the lights.
If you quickly come to realize this as fact it may not be too late to save these awesome clones and have a good grow.
The same is probably true of your other flowering strain.
Any questions, this is a great place for quick answers to problems that pop up. These people are always saving my butt when thing start south. Welcome to the farm.

Ovireyallday said:

Can you see signs of re vegging on my pics ?

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Yes, absolutely. The singles and triples give it away in a heartbeat.

Seamaiden said:

Didn't we already discuss this? Did you not like my answers?

Clones that have been on 18/6 sure will. And then they'll flip back into veg.

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Hey @Seamaiden ... I wasn't sure if greenhouse made a difference (that's where I'd posted before).

A buddy of mine tried it and exactly as you predicted. We wondered if outdoor temperature or spectrum caused it?

Not temps, not spectrum, reduction of daylight phase by as little as 1hr will cause them to flip. GH will work IF they're receiving an interruption or daylight length is extended to match the photoperiod they were grown on. In. At. With. By? Uh....

Seamaiden said:

Not temps, not spectrum, reduction of daylight phase by as little as 1hr will cause them to flip. GH will work IF they're receiving an interruption or daylight length is extended to match the photoperiod they were grown on. In. At. With. By? Uh....

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I don't beleive it's the reduction of daylight phase that causes them to flower; if that was the case you could have a plant under 24 hours daylight, and when you reduced it to 23 hours daylight it would flower.

But this would not be the case, as a plant is not going to flower under 23 hours of daylight.

Your theory disregards the reason why plants flower with longer nights and shorter daylight hours, which is the plant produces a flowering hormone, and this flowering hormone is destroyed by light.
But when the daylight hours are short enough that the plant is not destroying the flowering hormone as quick as it's producing it, then the flowering hormone will build up to a level that will induce flowering.

Nog said:

I don't beleive it's the reduction of daylight phase that causes them to flower; if that was the case you could have a plant under 24 hours daylight, and when you reduced it to 23 hours daylight it would flower.

But this would not be the case, as a plant is not going to flower under 23 hours of daylight.

Your theory disregards the reason why plants flower with longer nights and shorter daylight hours, which is the plant produces a flowering hormone, and this flowering hormone is destroyed by light.
But when the daylight hours are short enough that the plant is not destroying the flowering hormone as quick as it's producing it, then the flowering hormone will build up to a level that will induce flowering.

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How come this happens so quickly when going outside with an indoor plant? Just trying to figure out HOW to go from indoor veg to outdoor during summer , myself.

Save on power. Bigger badder plants. Etc.

15.5 hours of daylight and climbing now but I'm afraid to bring them outside lest they flip....

@Funkadelic -- the only way I know to do it is how I've outlined. I personally know someone who's putting out ROCK SOLID clones that are 100% ready to go outside, but he's using a computer-controlled/programmed lighting system that matches the clones to daylight phase very, very precisely. He's also getting ready to drop some coin on a gas chromatography machine... or was it a mass spectrometer? Anyway, hopefully you get my point, that it can be done but not easily or cheaply (yet).

Nog said:

I don't beleive it's the reduction of daylight phase that causes them to flower; if that was the case you could have a plant under 24 hours daylight, and when you reduced it to 23 hours daylight it would flower.

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And way back when I did try using a 24/0 photoperiod and then tried reducing it to 18/6, they flowered on me. Which is one of the big reasons why I never went back to using a 24/0 photoperiod.

Nog said:

Your theory disregards the reason why plants flower with longer nights and shorter daylight hours, which is the plant produces a flowering hormone, and this flowering hormone is destroyed by light.

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It's not really a theory, it's my experience. I know what it's "supposed" to do, and I know what I've observed. Based on your responses I find myself wondering, how often have you done this yourself? I grasp that flowering is a hormonal thing and that it's controlled by dark hours. But I also grasp what I've observed and so far you seem to be throwing out theories and nothing based on actual experience. Perhaps it's time for you to put your theories to the test.

Seamaiden's statements are absolutely correct. You have to acclimate clones to outside very carefully and slowly if you want a 100% success rate, or close to it. The light cycle should not be manipulated more than 15/min per week, which mimics the natural light cycle. It takes me 3 months to go from an 18 hour cycle down to the 15 hours needed by the end of May to acclimate my clones to an outdoor environment. Trying to drop them from a 24 hours light cycle to go outside in a single season rarely works, even the mother plants used to produced the clones should never, ever be under 24 hour light if those clones are intended to go outside.

It is the build-up of auxin and chromatin that signals the plant it is time to flower. There is actually a 'chromatin switch' that has been discovered, which the auxin triggers, and that in turn unravels the chromatin, telling the plant to flower. Different plants and different strains have different levels of auxin and chromatin required to flip the chromatin switch so it is not a one size fits all sort of technique. The larger the change in the light cycle, the bigger the shock to the plant, and the more likely the plant is to flip that chromatin switch, as it is a survival mechanism. So dropping from say 24 hours of light to 23 hours of light won't be enough to trigger it, but going form 24 hours of light to 18 hours of light certainly can, and going from 18 to 15 absolutely will on most strains.

Longer flowering strains, like Sour Diesel, are more easily transitioned to outside because of this, as it takes a higher level of hormones to trigger flowering. I have seen some people take Sour D from 18 hours of light and put them outside at 15 hours and it did sometimes work but I would not recommend it. Shorter flowering strains required much lower levels of hormones to flower, and therefore are more sensitive to changes in their light cycle. The Old Betsy (aka Mango Kush) cut I have for example, which can finish in 6.5-7 weeks, will start to trigger once the light drops below 16.5 hours, making it not suitable for outdoors.

There are other factors that can influence flowering as well, such as stress. Cold weather and allowing plants to get root bound will also contribute to auxin and chromatin build up. Again that Old Besty cut I have will start to flower under any amount of light if it gets too root bound or stressed out. However, the main factor which determines when the plant will flower is still ultimately the light cycle.

Seamaiden said:

@Funkadelic -- the only way I know to do it is how I've outlined. I personally know someone who's putting out ROCK SOLID clones that are 100% ready to go outside, but he's using a computer-controlled/programmed lighting system that matches the clones to daylight phase very, very precisely. He's also getting ready to drop some coin on a gas chromatography machine... or was it a mass spectrometer? Anyway, hopefully you get my point, that it can be done but not easily or cheaply (yet).

And way back when I did try using a 24/0 photoperiod and then tried reducing it to 18/6, they flowered on me. Which is one of the big reasons why I never went back to using a 24/0 photoperiod.

It's not really a theory, it's my experience. I know what it's "supposed" to do, and I know what I've observed. Based on your responses I find myself wondering, how often have you done this yourself? I grasp that flowering is a hormonal thing and that it's controlled by dark hours. But I also grasp what I've observed and so far you seem to be throwing out theories and nothing based on actual experience. Perhaps it's time for you to put your theories to the test.

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Have done it many times.

Hybrids like Skunk #1 or Northern Lights (Sensi) will not flower if put out after the middle of spring.

Last season I put Afghani #1 from Sensi out just after the middle of spring, and they flowered.

So it depends on the strain whether they flower or not when the daylight hours are long.
Some strains need longer daylight hours to stay in veg.

But it is the actual daylight hours they receive when you plant them outdoors that determines whether they go into flower or not, rather than an abrupt change in daylight length.

I think some plants are semi-auto, that is they have no ruderalis in them, but once they get to a certain height and age they will flower in long daylight hours.

I have always used 24 hours veg before putting outside, as not only do they grow quicker under 24 hours light, but also when I put them outside they will have no buildup of flowering hormone that would happen if I was giving them say 15 hours light indoors.

So I maintain that with 24 hours of light indoors they will be less likely to flower when put outdoors as they have no buildup of flowering hormone.

I have mine on 18/6 inside ... step down to 15.5/8.5 first?

Funkadelic said:

I have mine on 18/6 inside ... step down to 15.5/8.5 first?

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No, put them under 24 hours light indoors and then put outside.

Don't listen to anyone else, listen to Nog.
Nog has been there and done that.

The critical issue is how long the daylight hours will be when you put them outside.

If hybrids you can put them out earlier, if full on indica's then put outside later to prevent premature flowering.
Also give them a shot of high nitrogen water soluble fertilizer, about 25% nitrogen, when you put them outside.
That will help keep them in vegetative growth.

lol since when does nutrients pro long or start flowering ??? there are many things that send signals to plant telling them its flowering time night temps ??? could be a trigger of course light hrs
its like saying i ran my lights on 24 hrs plants sexed and then i threw them outside @ 17 hrs of light will they Flip ? I think not usually a will staart to flip out door when your below 15 hrs of light usually 13 - 14 hrs mark
one has to realize from throwing a plant that was inside to the sun would be like growing under 1000 watts for 24 hrs and only 4 - 6 hrs of real sunlight would of surpassed the 1000 watt in active par
i mean i can clearly see a huge difference in size and mass comparing in door plant vs out door plant same age
where does it end 15 - 17 hrs of intense sunlight vs 18 or 24 hrs of indoor light

Funkadelic said:

Hey @Seamaiden ... I wasn't sure if greenhouse made a difference (that's where I'd posted before).

A buddy of mine tried it and exactly as you predicted. We wondered if outdoor temperature or spectrum caused it?

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If temperatures, night or otherwise had anything to do with flowering, inside growers who control the temperature of the room would have discovered that eons ago. Same thing with spectrum.

This is all why I just start seeds in late April through May. Is everyone on here trying to grow huge trees? If 1-3 lbs plants are good enough for you, you may not ever have to worry about light cycles or even think about them. Or if you are a clone grower you could just wait until mid July to put out your bigger clones...then who cares if they flip. Probably not help to anyone, but just in case there are growers reading this that don't need to or want to grow 8 foot tall plants.