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Hey all
Im new to this site, but have been growing organically with teas for years. Recently, Ive been transitioning to veganics and am having a hard time finding a replacement for the phos guanos I love so much. Soft rock phosphate was my first choice, but Ive heard it can cause cancer and actually kill the microbes if you use the wrong kind. (I have no sources, just hear-say) Idealy, OMRI certified SRP is the goal but Ill settle for anything that doesnt hurt people or microbes. Ive done a good amount of research at my local stores, on the internet and have read basically every microbe book out and now Im turning to thcfarm hoping for a little direction. Any advise is appreciated greatly!
Thank you in advance!
-gro
Heres my current list of tea products molasses, kelp, insect frass, EWC, glacial rock dust, soluble seaweed, humus, a dash of alfalfa meal and vegan compost.
Viruses may be the cause of many cancers. Now what?Hey all
Im new to this site, but have been growing organically with teas for years. Recently, Ive been transitioning to veganics and am having a hard time finding a replacement for the phos guanos I love so much. Soft rock phosphate was my first choice, but Ive heard it can cause cancer and actually kill the microbes if you use the wrong kind. (I have no sources, just hear-say) Idealy, OMRI certified SRP is the goal but Ill settle for anything that doesnt hurt people or microbes. Ive done a good amount of research at my local stores, on the internet and have read basically every microbe book out and now Im turning to thcfarm hoping for a little direction. Any advise is appreciated greatly!
Thank you in advance!
-gro
Heres my current list of tea products molasses, kelp, insect frass, EWC, glacial rock dust, soluble seaweed, humus, a dash of alfalfa meal and vegan compost.
You use earth worm poop so why not bat poop?
Otherwise frass has you covered.
.
Archipelago Bat Guano is something worth looking at. Read about the way it is farmed and some vegans can live with that or make an exception.
http://www.archipelagobatguano.com/TopTen.shtml
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it takes thousands of years to fossilize guano, so whatever there is here today is all that we will ever see. According to the USDA, all of the fossilized seabird guano supplies are already exhausted. There are however some large reserves of fossilized bat guano left. Let’s not waste this precious resource. Use it wisely.
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Organic vegetarians comprise a specialty group that should be especially interested in Archipelago Bat Guano Phosphate. the alternatives are not very attractive. Superphosphate is not approved for use in organic growing, and raw rock phosphate reportedly does not work very well. And bone meal is obviously not vegetarian-friendly. Archipelago Bat Guano Phosphate and fresh manure is about all that you have left. And the fresh manure is likely to contain a lot of nitrogen that you do not want to apply at times when your plants need phosphate for fruiting and flowering.
Why are you going "veganic?" What is the point of you making the "switch?"
I would like to point out that veganics is not vegan by very definition. You don't want to use bat shit, but you will use worm shit, and bug shit. Microbes are alive so veganics can't be vegan by it's own definition. It was truly an ill conceived name.
My entire growing program revolves around teas. Some are have no animal inputs, and some do. So I would really like to know what you end game is with what you are doing so that maybe we can better point you in the right direction.
I get the vegan thing, and... if it's what floats your boat, then that's your boat, floated. No skin offa my nose. ;)
Viruses may be the cause of many cancers. Now what?
SRP takes about two years to become plant-available, so you should add it in soils now with the idea that in about two years you'll be able to reduce P inputs. There's also the question of your base media/soil. Are you working outdoors with your native earth? If so, you really need to know some basics about that soil first, before you can make an intelligent decision about which direction you should go. Also, if you're in a situation like me and you're watering with very hard, alkaline water high in carbonates, then you must take care about how that may interact with the other variables. Ya dig?
As far as harming anything... think on this--how do we acquire the rock dusts in the first place, eh? Usually it's mining activities, right? But we need a lot of this stuff that's held within the crust of the earth, so we make some trade-offs.
One of my trade-offs is that I use rock dusts (still trying to source locally to reduce impact/footprint). I'm also quite willing to use the natural effluent from animals (and myself, pee is free, after all, and it's damn near a complete nutrient whose main problem making a complete/total feed for my needs is my ability to produce enough) as well as the byproducts from using animals. I feel strongly that if we're going to kill the cow that we should use the WHOLE cow. Kill it humanely and use the whole thing.
In that vein, I suggest trading perlite for an ag waste byproduct, such as rice hulls, for lightening up mixes. I suggest finding local rock dusts with analysis. I haven't been too successful in finding quite what I want (reliability is a local issue/problem, the level of which is pretty unbelievable for someone who lived most of her life in the LA area).
I prefer to use other ag wastes when and where I can, and while I know not all may be 100% organic, they're better than the blue alternatives.
High P alternatives to guanos (which aren't so renewable, unless you're going with chicken shit, which is pretty high N) would be bone meal, which I use, smells like chicharrones. I also use Cal-Phos, because I'm sitting on acidic, Ca-, N-, heavy soils and because my water *is* high in CO3, my sources of Ca tend not to be CaCO3 (same w/Mg).
This is specifically for my outdoor growing in my native earth. If I'm using pre-mixed top-soil, I don't have quite all the same concerns, with the water being the main exception.
Organic meats are being produced and processed, and so there are organic byproducts from those that have been raised and slaughtered humanely, that are also renewable (the issue I have with stuff like fossilized guano beds), and they're a good, renewable source of fairly ready P. I don't suggest making tea with bone meal (neither do I often suggest using guano--food safety perspective is hard to shake) because it smells awful, no longer like tasty chicharrones.
You know what chicharrones are, right? :D
Welcome.First, let me thank all of you for your responses. I really do appreciate it. Also, Id like to state that anything I write is simply my understanding thus far. I welcome any changes or corrections to my current base of knowledge, it only makes me better. My switch from organics to veganics is for the challenge. My current organics regimen is written down from the precise day I take cuts all the way til harvest. Basically a monkey could run it. Its become very mundane and Ive almost become content with what I know. Not cool at all/time for a change. Veganics was an easy next step as I wont get caught dead with hydro buckets. IMO the best hydro in the world (there are some bomb hydro growers) does not come close to true organics. Thanks again for the responses and so quickly!
Lead thanks for the awesome info on the ABG and link, Im definitely going to look into it! I still will have organic projects going on, so this is VERY helpful. As for using EWC and not other guanos, I do understand that EW are technically animals of the invertebrates category. My understanding for not using guanos or fish extracts is to avoid brewing up nasty pathogens like e. coli or salmonella (just examples) Then feeding it to the plants causing others to get sick when smoked. Obviously, the majority of people can handle guanos, blood/bone meals etc. For those with compromised immune systems though, veganics or juicing is the only safe way to receive their meds. EWC does not have as much of a risk of brewing up unwanted bacteria. I understand too that if your brewer is on point, you shouldn't have this issue. Its all precautionary.
I have no problem with using non-animal derived inputs. I do have a problem with someone calling something vegan, and then using animal inputs. Sounds kind of dumb to me.. Veganics is a catchy term to sell products.
So it seems as though you are wanting to solve a problem before it exists. The problem not existing being passing on a bad bacteria to a patient with a compromised immune system. Which at face value is a great thing to be thinking about. Most people don't care enough to think about these things. They just want to make money. So I commend you on that. It does seem as though you are basing your decisions off of emotions, and not off logical thought, or statistics.
It's like starting a war on marijuana even though it doesn't kill anyone, or starting a war on terror even though statistically cars are way more dangerous. You get what I am saying. Pathogens can come from anywhere, and everywhere. You are carrying them on you right now. Most people carry staph on them at all times. So to get away from these kinds of things is going to be impossible.
I don't know why there is this push to sterilize growing plants. That is what veganics is trying to do. Sterilize a natural process that in and of it's self is not sterile.
So let's break down veganics.
Earth worm castings, and compost= arthropod shit, and microbe shit. Not vegan by definition
Rock phosphate=polonium 210 radiation, and up to %6 fluoride. Vegan, but not something I would personally want to use.
Alfalfa meal, cotton burrs, rice, comfrey, nettles, yarrow, neem, etc...= unless you by certified organic it is going to be covered in pesticide residue
Which doesn't mean shit though because the organic certification in America is a joke at best.Heavy metals are not regulated by American organic standards. Which is bullshit!
Most other rock dusts that you are going to use will have heavy metals in them. which is one of the reasons why some people don't use guano. Hypocritical I think?
What I wanted to illustrate to you is that you are asking the wrong questions. The question should be what is the best way to remediate heavy metals, pesticide residue, etc.. so that it does not end up in the final product. Switching to veganics does not do one thing to solve this problem.
The best answer to this question is remediation through the use of humic acid, and compost tea. I am not one to copy, and paste so if you want to follow up you will have to Google for yourself, but I have an acquaintance who has done lead remediation tests for his State, and with only the use of humic acid they were able to make contaminated soil pass the test.The lead was still in the ground, but the humic substances locked it up so that the plants would not take them up. Kind of cool I think.
Similar tests have shown to be true through the use of compost tea. With which I am probably the biggest fan of next to microbe man.
At Chernobyl they have planted hemp to re-mediate the soil of radiation. This plant is known for it's remediating properties.
After this long winded bullshit that I just posted out I would like to end with,
Everything we grow with is plastic, and all of those chemicals are leaching into every single persons end product.No veganics answer to that.
Remediate my friend. That is the only solution.
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