Please help diagnose these plants

Smokeyjojackson · Jun 21, 2014

I have one room that runs a little on the warm and dry side (mid 80's and 40's on humidity) and when I went to fill the humidifiers, put together the screens and foliar last night I noticed that all of the plants are showing signs of stress.

Most of them have some funky curling and browning/necrosis on the tips of the lower leaves and some (OG's) have a lighter yellowing edge to the upper leaves. Some of the new growth is coming in strange as well with a very pronounced claw but it doesn't seem like the normal nitrogen toxicity I have seen before.

I will PH the soil again today but I am pretty sure that at 2tbs per/g of dolomite lime that my ph will be around 6.4-6.5 like my other rooms with this same soil mix.

Pertinent info:
Using Nectar for The Gods line of nutes in this room.
http://oregonsonly.com/feeding-schedule

Room conditions
mid to upper 80's daytime (40% humidity)
70's at night (40-50% humidity)
4kw HPS

Sprayed Bloom Khaos twice last week and gave them their first feeding of NOTG @ mid veg strength
Medusas Magic 2tsp/g
Gaia Mania 2tsp/g
Zues Juice 1tsp/g
Herculean Harvest 2tsp/g
Athenas Aminas 2tsp/g
Demeters Destiny 1tsp/g

Everything Ph'd to 6.5 ish

Bloom Khaos 1tsp/ quart with some R11 spreader surfactant. (done 2 times one day apart)

Bloom Khaos says to feed with a calcium source (one or more of their products) after a foliar or you will run into cal/mag issues. Is this what I am dealing with here?

All of the necrosis and yellowing etc took place over 4 days. The plants were all healthy on Monday.

I am still learning how to diagnose sick plants after all these years. I could use some help.

Here are some photos

Smokeyjojackson · Jun 21, 2014

Temps are in the higher 80's at times yes.

I raised the lights a bit yesterday in case heat is part of the issue.

I am running my lights later at night now to help combat this until a mini split can be bought for that location.

Smokeyjojackson · Jun 22, 2014

No one else cares to chime in on what they think is happening?

william76 · Jun 22, 2014

Smokeyjojackson said:
No one else cares to chime in on what they think is happening?

Did you supply a calcium source as stated at time foliar spraying,?it looks like a combo of both heat stress and calcium def,no?iv seen this when iv ran plants in high temps and not given them enuff cal mag,76

burn4me · Jun 22, 2014

Smokeyjojackson said:
Bloom Khaos says to feed with a calcium source (one or more of their products) after a foliar or you will run into cal/mag issues. Is this what I am dealing with here?

did you not use a calcium source? a few pics look like cal def but im not sure thats the only problem.
and nice description of your lay out. good info you should be able to get some help. there are a couple threads on NOTG line check there.
here it is... hope you get this sorted good luck
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/nectar-for-the-gods.63372/page-14#post-1263019

Seamaiden · Jun 22, 2014

Smokeyjojackson said:
I have one room that runs a little on the warm and dry side (mid 80's and 40's on humidity) and when I went to fill the humidifiers, put together the screens and foliar last night I noticed that all of the plants are showing signs of stress.

Most of them have some funky curling and browning/necrosis on the tips of the lower leaves and some (OG's) have a lighter yellowing edge to the upper leaves. Some of the new growth is coming in strange as well with a very pronounced claw but it doesn't seem like the normal nitrogen toxicity I have seen before.

I will PH the soil again today but I am pretty sure that at 2tbs per/g of dolomite lime that my ph will be around 6.4-6.5 like my other rooms with this same soil mix.

Pertinent info:
Using Nectar for The Gods line of nutes in this room.
http://oregonsonly.com/feeding-schedule

Room conditions
mid to upper 80's daytime (40% humidity)
70's at night (40-50% humidity)
4kw HPS

Sprayed Bloom Khaos twice last week and gave them their first feeding of NOTG @ mid veg strength
Medusas Magic 2tsp/g
Gaia Mania 2tsp/g
Zues Juice 1tsp/g
Herculean Harvest 2tsp/g
Athenas Aminas 2tsp/g
Demeters Destiny 1tsp/g

Everything Ph'd to 6.5 ish

Bloom Khaos 1tsp/ quart with some R11 spreader surfactant. (done 2 times one day apart)

Bloom Khaos says to feed with a calcium source (one or more of their products) after a foliar or you will run into cal/mag issues. Is this what I am dealing with here?

All of the necrosis and yellowing etc took place over 4 days. The plants were all healthy on Monday.

I am still learning how to diagnose sick plants after all these years. I could use some help.

Here are some photosView attachment 416352 View attachment 416353 View attachment 416354 View attachment 416355 View attachment 416356 View attachment 416357 View attachment 416358 View attachment 416359

Ooo, wow, ok. You've got a few issues going on. I can't comment directly on your nutrient line.

First I'm seeing some signs of Mg-. No big deal, it's highly mobile and super-easy to correct via either foliar (quick fix, and also a good diagnostic) or adding something like MgSO4 to the feeding regimen.

I also see an advancing P-, as evidenced by the purple/reddened petioles and the color green of the leaves, P- tends to make leaves a too-dark shade of green.

Now, it's those top shots that have really gotten my attention. Offhand I think we're looking at a real and true Fe-, which is immobile, which presents *you* the grower with some issues because now you're playing catch-up. Fortunately, your girls are still in veg and I'm hoping you're allowing yourself/them time to recover, yes?

I need to refer to my charts, then I'll come back and change that last opinion if I got myself switched up.

K, I think you may also have some N+ going on. I'm still not sure if those upper leaves are a Fe- or S-, but I don't think you'll hurt anything if you adjust your feeding accordingly.

Are you able to up the RH at all? Add, say... a cool mist humidifier or something like that to the area?

william76 · Jun 22, 2014

Seamaiden said:
Ooo, wow, ok. You've got a few issues going on. I can't comment directly on your nutrient line.

First I'm seeing some signs of Mg-. No big deal, it's highly mobile and super-easy to correct via either foliar (quick fix, and also a good diagnostic) or adding something like MgSO4 to the feeding regimen.

I also see an advancing P-, as evidenced by the purple/reddened petioles and the color green of the leaves, P- tends to make leaves a too-dark shade of green.

Now, it's those top shots that have really gotten my attention. Offhand I think we're looking at a real and true Fe-, which is immobile, which presents *you* the grower with some issues because now you're playing catch-up. Fortunately, your girls are still in veg and I'm hoping you're allowing yourself/them time to recover, yes?

I need to refer to my charts, then I'll come back and change that last opinion if I got myself switched up.

K, I think you may also have some N+ going on. I'm still not sure if those upper leaves are a Fe- or S-, but I don't think you'll hurt anything if you adjust your feeding accordingly.

Are you able to up the RH at all? Add, say... a cool mist humidifier or something like that to the area?

There you go friend,deficiency expert right there,and I know sea,s helped a lot of people here with various issues,respect,hope it works out for you,76

Smokeyjojackson · Jun 22, 2014

Seamaiden said:
Ooo, wow, ok. You've got a few issues going on. I can't comment directly on your nutrient line.

First I'm seeing some signs of Mg-. No big deal, it's highly mobile and super-easy to correct via either foliar (quick fix, and also a good diagnostic) or adding something like MgSO4 to the feeding regimen.

I also see an advancing P-, as evidenced by the purple/reddened petioles and the color green of the leaves, P- tends to make leaves a too-dark shade of green.

Now, it's those top shots that have really gotten my attention. Offhand I think we're looking at a real and true Fe-, which is immobile, which presents *you* the grower with some issues because now you're playing catch-up. Fortunately, your girls are still in veg and I'm hoping you're allowing yourself/them time to recover, yes?

I need to refer to my charts, then I'll come back and change that last opinion if I got myself switched up.

K, I think you may also have some N+ going on. I'm still not sure if those upper leaves are a Fe- or S-, but I don't think you'll hurt anything if you adjust your feeding accordingly.

Are you able to up the RH at all? Add, say... a cool mist humidifier or something like that to the area?

Ok wow I will be honest and say that I am unsure how to address some of these issues .

I have a couple cool mist humidifiers running in there but I think its time to step it up. Next grow will get one of the bigger ultrasonic units the refills itself. This grow was put together on a shoestring.

I will give the plants time to recover before flowering even if it means hacking on them a bit.

I just added screens to the room and will be raising them and the plants higher to facilitate easier tucking and watering so I plan to veg for a few more weeks if possible. I have 10 foot ceilings so no issue with height .

Now for the deficiencies/toxicities... Jeez where to begin..

For the N+ I would think giving plain water for awhile might help (possible with some extra runoff).

If I am lacking in P, and Fe/S that would likely make those issues worse no?

How would you address the N+?

I think some foliar's with MgSO4 should cover the Mg and S what do you think?

~~I am unsure how to address the P- with the products I currently have on hand. Nothing I have right now has a P value that is over 4 and that is a bloom formula~~.

~~Can you suggest something? Would some bat guano or just anything with a nPk value of 5+ be fine to address the P-?~~

Edit: I actually just found that the Herculean Harvest is 0-10-0 so I will use that to address the P- with the next feeding.

What would you use to address the Fe-?

It almost sounds if they just need to be fed outside the possible N+ issue is this a safe ASSumption to make?

Smokeyjojackson · Jun 22, 2014

burn4me said:
did you not use a calcium source? a few pics look like cal def but im not sure thats the only problem.
and nice description of your lay out. good info you should be able to get some help. there are a couple threads on NOTG line check there.
here it is... hope you get this sorted good luck
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/nectar-for-the-gods.63372/page-14#post-1263019

I did use a calcium source but I might have went a bit light as they had not really been fed since going in the soil.

The soil is amended with about 20% EWC and 1-2 tbs of lime per gallon.

Thanks for the link!

burn4me · Jun 22, 2014

i dont use that line but have watched the videos for it and they say after BK they want mad cal

Smokeyjojackson · Jun 23, 2014

burn4me said:
i dont use that line but have watched the videos for it and they say after BK they want mad cal

I read that too I guess I might have underestimated just how much. Next time they will get a heavy feeding if I foliar with the BK.

I did go hit them with 1tsp/g of MgSO4.

Heres what I have been up to this weekend.

Space is pretty tight so I will be lifting the plants themselves as well as the screen. I cant think of any better way to get the plants out of the saucers (for runoff) as well as lift the plants higher for easier maintenance than to simply set them on 16" cinder blocks which will sit in the saucers for cleanup.
I have gone this route before and it was a good way to allow for runoff without letting the plants sit in water while the rest of the room is fed.

The screen will likely be around 36-40" off the ground.

Seamaiden · Jun 23, 2014

Smokeyjojackson said:
Ok wow I will be honest and say that I am unsure how to address some of these issues .

I have a couple cool mist humidifiers running in there but I think its time to step it up. Next grow will get one of the bigger ultrasonic units the refills itself. This grow was put together on a shoestring.

Even a soaked towel or two, hung in the area can help.

Smokeyjojackson said:
Now for the deficiencies/toxicities... Jeez where to begin..

For the N+ I would think giving plain water for awhile might help (possible with some extra runoff).

You'd think, but it may be taking a while for it to be cleared out of the media, in a manner of speaking.

Smokeyjojackson said:
If I am lacking in P, and Fe/S that would likely make those issues worse no?

I would agree with that statement. How to fine tune the balance, I cannot precisely say, however.

Smokeyjojackson said:
How would you address the N+?

I would start feeding some sugars, causing a bacterial bloom, which will fix the N temporarily.

Smokeyjojackson said:
I think some foliar's with MgSO4 should cover the Mg and S what do you think?

Yes! It's what I was thinking of, too. :)

Smokeyjojackson said:
Edit: I actually just found that the Herculean Harvest is 0-10-0 so I will use that to address the P- with the next feeding.

Excellent! Sounds perfect.

Smokeyjojackson said:
What would you use to address the Fe-?

I would look to the nutrient line you're using, see if they might have something that would allow a Fe boost. Otherwise, I literally use old nails in a bucket for Fe-demanding plants like my Camellia. There's also an outfit called Sensational Solutions that has micronized supplements, one of them is CaMgFe, and it's a nicely balanced offering of those elements. I think it would be better to use what you can find locally or have on hand right now, though.

Smokeyjojackson said:
It almost sounds if they just need to be fed outside the possible N+ issue is this a safe ASSumption to make?

Sort of. Think: balance. If things are out of balance then some slight tweaks may be all that's necessary. For example, because of Mg's synergy with some elements, IIRC including P, making that simple adjustment would bring everything else into line. How to do that is not my specialty, I feed the soil and let it feed my girls what they want when they want it, making decisions on my part unnecessary. If I were familiar with your nutrient line then I could comment far more intelligently and precisely on how to handle the issues.

Do any of the products you're using offer up micronutrients?

Please help diagnose these plants

Please help diagnose these plants

Smokeyjojackson

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burn4me

Seamaiden

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Living dead girl

Please help diagnose these plants

Please help diagnose these plants

Smokeyjojackson

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william76

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Seamaiden

Living dead girl

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Seamaiden

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