caregiverken said:

I was being a bit extreem there Sky. Im sure your wife is doing what she feels is right.:)

I payed to have my well drilled though rock and pay (Way too much) for the power, to pump that water 500ft up out of the ground.

and recently some idiots in our county actually were thinking they could put meter on my well:confused:

when Pigs fly!

Nobody Owns that water!! And I will use as much as I need to.

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Oh, seriously...? County board, water board? Our well is just a skoatch under 800'. We have a neighbor who dried up one well and had to drill another, was, and probably still is, superpissed to have us drawing what he likely views as 'his' water, said as much when we were in escrow on the place. Asshole. I call him Lefty, because he was drunk and cut off two of his own fingers with a circular saw or something like that. He's always drunk, I think.

plain and simple: "Weather Change!"

btw where does Cali get most of water from?

another side note: in some places of CO water meters have been put on wells. Why? because the ignorant people who own the land let them do it.

kolah said:

plain and simple: "Weather Change!"

btw where does Cali get most of water from?

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Rain :D

guess again!

It's obviously different in CA than CO.... Here you are required by law to have a permit (be approved) to drill a well and most are metered. There's no gallonage limit to what you can use as far as I know....but if your use is designated as "household only"...which MOST properties in CO are unless they are above 35 acres and/or have a stated right to irrigate outside from that well. Here you could have your well "red tagged" if a downstream user saw you were watering a garden outside or filling a lake or some other unauthorized use from that well. The State would not only have visual proof of what you were doing...they could show >excessive< use for a household via your meter and you'd be...fucked. Even if you didn't have a meter and everything was green in this..a basically desert climate...yer gonna stick out like a sore thumb and be in deep shit. If our drought continues...this stuff will only tighten and be more rigourously enforced. "Water" here is GOLD. You have to buy it. You don't own all you want just because you own property/exist here. My wife deals with this all the time/.....uber-rich absentee home owners who want a golf course green yard and who use 10-20 x what an average user here uses per month. Jack the rates and they bitch...but still waste water.... cus they are used to doing WHATEVER they please WHEREVER they go. Fun as shit to watch em piss my wife off...or cuss her out...or whatever.... cus she can shut their water off in a fuckin heartbeat. It's a SERVICE...not a RIGHT. Some folks get their self importance level checked severely.... LOL. I love her cool head as she shuts rich corporate execs down and shuts em up.

So hey.....no worries about any "harshin'. Kinda doesn't matter! My wife does what the LAW says and what the RULES where she works say (that are set by multiple municipal boards)...not what she feels is right. That's why she makes the BIG bucks. :D

kolah said:

Geo-Engineering aka Weather Modification and it's patents. There lies the answers.

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I was trying to locate a Science Daily article I commented on somewhere a while back about the HARP program being accused by the scientific community of causing the Japan Quake.. It had something to do with Ion levels recorded above Japan prior to the quake and as usual HARP was active.

squiggly said:

This is a non-scientific argument. It is an assumption at best and flat out wrong at worst.

We don't know what the difference is, as far as the system is concerned, in putting a shit-ton of material (which is incredibly variable in its composition) in an instant vs putting a non-stop exponentially increasing amount of an essentially purified substance over the course of 100 years.

This is really the problem we run into with climate change, if we're to be frank about it:

That so many armchair experts feel confident to comment on and develop beliefs about something which I, after 7 years of schooling specifically tailored to this type of discussion, can only barely scratch the surface of with regard to understanding.

In a sentence:

The grown ups are talking. (This isn't directed specifically at you Pontiac so don't take offense)

The fact is, no matter what some "expert" said--or what you personally believe--without having any expertise yourself, you don't know who to listen to. You can't judge expertise without expertise, it's a catch 22.
If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about--I'm here to tell you that your best bet is to go with the 99% of the people in the world who DO know what the fuck their talking about and what they agree on.

They don't agree on everything, so that still leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I'm not asking you to take the majority's word for it, either.

I'm just saying that randomly making shit up, or going off on information that you can't even identify the source of--is a recipe for being as wrong as you could possibly be when discussing something so complex about which you have near to zero understanding (and also about which so many armchair experts and crazies have taken an interest).

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Here's what NASA said on the subject and I try to focus on what the most reliable trustworthy and reputable scientists have to say on whatever subject I comment about.

"One more year of numbers isn't in itself significant," GISS climatologist Gavin Schmidt said. "What matters is this decade is warmer than the last decade, and that decade was warmer than the decade before. The planet is warming. The reason it's warming is because we are pumping increasing amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere."

Given that the koch brothers "guy" wont say that man did cause it, wont say we didn't either (well maby now that the neocons call him a traitor), but instead he said it isn't helping lol.. Then we look at what happened to CO2 levels when all planes were grounded after 911, i'm with squiggly on this one, below is a picture worth a thousand words. Like how I pointed out the guy writing that article about the 70's hoax who didn't give any acolades of his own or sources, I have to go with who does.. Like I pointed out his co2 quotes were waaaaaaayyyyyyy off and we all know that because we are on top of Co2 monitoring but the masses at larger aren't so they just believe what "their guy" writes. Same issue with urban legend growing BS that is still rampant in our community of cultivating MMJ. So how can we believe them?



The contrail pic below is from southeast lrg.gif MODIS tracking of contrails generated by air traffic over the southeastern United States on January 29, 2004. Source: NASA Earth Observatory

Further proof is this excerpt from an article published in august of last year; In a surprising turnaround, the amount of carbon dioxide being released into the atmosphere in the U.S. has fallen dramatically to its lowest level in 20 years, and government officials say the biggest reason is that cheap and plentiful natural gas has led many power plant operators to switch from dirtier-burning coal.

Many of the world's leading climate scientists didn't see the drop coming, in large part because it happened as a result of market forces rather than direct government action against carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that traps heat in the atmosphere.

Michael Mann, director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State University, said the shift away from coal is reason for "cautious optimism" about potential ways to deal with climate change. He said it demonstrates that "ultimately people follow their wallets" on global warming.

"There's a very clear lesson here. What it shows is that if you make a cleaner energy source cheaper, you will displace dirtier sources," said Roger Pielke Jr., a climate expert at the University of Colorado.

In a little-noticed technical report, the U.S. Energy Information Agency, a part of the Energy Department, said this month that total U.S. CO2 emissions for the first four months of this year fell to about 1992 levels. The Associated Press contacted environmental experts, scientists and utility companies and learned that virtually everyone believes the shift could have major long-term implications for U.S. energy policy."

Source;

<yawn> time to scoot. dun with this thread and beatin the dead horse again.

caregiverken said:

I was being a bit extreem there Sky. Im sure your wife is doing what she feels is right.:)

I payed to have my well drilled though rock and pay (Way too much) for the power, to pump that water 500ft up out of the ground.

and recently some idiots in our county actually were thinking they could put meter on my well:confused:

when Pigs fly!

Nobody Owns that water!! And I will use as much as I need to.

Click to expand...

I know the federal government says some of the water flowing into cali via Canals from AZ is owned by tribes lol, so Cali actually buys a bunch of that from the new/old owners lol.., of course they have been fighting that battle for many years that has just been settled, funny thing is the cotton farmers like my family fought it real hard only to be paying less now than they did before from SRP.. That analogy is flawed if you don't consider a bottled water company would buy land next to you and suck it all off. The natives here in AZ had vast canal systems, they couldn't have imagined the water would be diverted.. We have idolized early developers here who actually created our big cities by cutting off the tap so to speak of Tribes here who's crops and rivers fed them for a long long time..

If you look at the aquifer here in AZ under the REZ "sweet water" (now contaminated) it looks like tons of straws slanted from the State land sucking it dry to fill the swimming pools, the tribes are winning that battle too. lol.. If Cali pisses us off we may just decide to cut your water off lol or suck it dry first before you get it lol. Kidding of course since the sb1070 boycot we just pee in the water heading to Cali lol

Im sorry but Im not buying into any "water shortage"




Its Bull shit

That sure LOOKS like a buncha water ken..... but try drinking it or putting it on yer ganja and see WTF happens. (both of ya will die, FYI)

from wiki...

Water covers 71% of the Earth's surface, and is vital for all known forms of life. On Earth, 96.5% of the planet's water is found in oceans, 1.7% in groundwater, 1.7% in glaciers and the ice caps of Antarctica and Greenland, a small fraction in other large water bodies, and 0.001% in the air as vapor, clouds (formed of solid and liquid water particles suspended in air), and precipitation. Only 2.5% of the Earth's water is freshwater, and 98.8% of that water is in ice and groundwater. Less than 0.3% of all freshwater is in rivers, lakes, and the atmosphere, and an even smaller amount of the Earth's freshwater (0.003%) is contained within biological bodies and manufactured products.

NASA, a reliable source? yur kiddin right?

ok, now I'm done. :D

Sky; I know I cant drink sea water :confused:
unless I had one of these ;)



And there is always Solar Desal.

another thing...
the air all around us is Full of Water..




But My Point is, There is No shortage of even fresh water..
Dig a hole an line it...It will fill with rain...there is your water.

False Shortages are often created to drive prices up.

Same with the "peak oil" and the "oil shortage"...its BS...

And its the Same with "global warming" Al gore wanting to Tax energy :mad:

kolah said:

plain and simple: "Weather Change!"

btw where does Cali get most of water from?

another side note: in some places of CO water meters have been put on wells. Why? because the ignorant people who own the land let them do it.

Click to expand...

That's a rather difficult question to answer, given the phrasing. So my answer will be that it depends on where in California you're talking about, and what you mean by 'most.' For example, I lived for some time in a city in SoCal that actually owns its own well that's in yet another city. The well is massive, so massive that they're able to sell more of that water than the city uses while still maintaining a 3yr minimum supply in the well, turning a bit of a profit for the city (this is restricted for some years now). They sell to adjacent cities, so that's covering a lot of the SE portion of Los Angeles county, and some portions of northern Orange county, as far south at least as Santa Ana. I'm fairly certain none of that water makes it much further west than, say, Whittier, which is a fair ways east of LA and thus, LADWP.

Then we have pretty much the entire Central Valley and its irrigation needs, some of which are flowing out of the Sierra, and some of which are coming from groundwater (foothill areas can pull groundwater). Between the Central Valley and the mountain regions, we're talking, geographically, a huge portion of the state, even if we're not talking about the bulk of its residents.

Plenty of Sierra water (snowpack, etc), is what's supplying the Bay Area, again for an example.

So, what, exactly are you aiming at with the question, phrased as it is?

azmmjadvocates said:

I know the federal government says some of the water flowing into cali via Canals from AZ is owned by tribes lol, so Cali actually buys a bunch of that from the new/old owners lol.., of course they have been fighting that battle for many years that has just been settled, funny thing is the cotton farmers like my family fought it real hard only to be paying less now than they did before from SRP.. That analogy is flawed if you don't consider a bottled water company would buy land next to you and suck it all off. The natives here in AZ had vast canal systems, they couldn't have imagined the water would be diverted.. We have idolized early developers here who actually created our big cities by cutting off the tap so to speak of Tribes here who's crops and rivers fed them for a long long time..

If you look at the aquifer here in AZ under the REZ "sweet water" (now contaminated) it looks like tons of straws slanted from the State land sucking it dry to fill the swimming pools, the tribes are winning that battle too. lol.. If Cali pisses us off we may just decide to cut your water off lol or suck it dry first before you get it lol. Kidding of course since the sb1070 boycot we just pee in the water heading to Cali lol

Click to expand...

I believe Cali gets most of its Hydro and Fresh water from Canada, or so I heard.

caregiverken said:

Im sorry but Im not buying into any "water shortage"

Its Bull shit

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De-salination has an extremely high energy cost. It's just a result of the chemistry involved, it requires significant electrical input. Membrane plants have similar cost effectiveness problems.

One of the biggest issues is that the places which are most effected by water shortage are those which are either very high up or very far inland. Thus the cost of desalination is compounded by the cost of transportation. For this reason it is still more economical to pipeline water from areas of plenty to areas with shortage.

Eventually costs should come down--and nuclear powered desalination plants are an option (dedicated nuclear facility for mass de-salination) that might be economical even now.

Either way the situation is more complex than you're implying.

squiggly said:

Either way the situation is more complex than you're implying.

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No Doupt everything is more complex than I imply..that just how i am :)
why complicate things? :D

I wonder how much rain water falls into the oceans each day? o_O

Global warming! Scary stuff when you look at how already things are greatly effected.
In the yr 2525 pls,

In regards to global warming, what about all the previous ice ages? Maybe the earth's climate is always changing? Maybe the earth has a HUGE cycle that goes thru Ice ages and warmer or Hot stages?

paperplane said:

In regards to global warming, what about all the previous ice ages? Maybe the earth's climate is always changing? Maybe the earth has a HUGE cycle that goes thru Ice ages and warmer or Hot stages?

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That isn't a maybe, it's a fact.

That's actually the problem. We know what is coming, and we know that for our particular way of life, it is bad.

We know that it shouldn't be coming so soon and that we should've had more time to prepare than we will end up having.

This is, absolutely, a natural process--but it is one which we have greatly accelerated.

It goes like this essentially:

Hot/tropical (high water level) --------> Ice Age (low water level) --------------------> Temperate Climate (now--moderate water level)---------------> Hot/tropical (high water level)-----------------> etc.


The earth has been doing this for a long time. I'm not going to look up the exact numbers, so I'll just use made up [and smaller] ones to illustrate what is scaring scientists.

Tropical for 50 years ----> Ice Age 50 years -----> Moderate 50 years ------>Tropical 50 years -----> Ice Age 50 years ---> Moderate 50 years--->Tropical 50 years -------> Ice Age 50 years--------> Moderate 10 years.

Don't take those figures to be exactly on point. They aren't. I'm just trying to illustrate what the alarm bell is about.

There are two things which are an issue here for scientists:

1. We don't know what happens to this cycle if we accelerate too fast through one step of it. It could zip us without warning into an ice age, for instance, which would decimate our civilization without time to prepare.

2. We have only known that this period of high water and high temperature is coming for maybe 20-30 years. That is not enough time to prepare for a drastic change. If this were happening 50 years from now, we would be in a much better situation to just say "fuck it who cares". Right now we're in a situation where if what the model predicts happens--we are in BIIIIIIIIG trouble. If the model is wrong, we could be headed for worse. What most scientists agree on is that we'll need to adapt faster than we really can gracefully. Will humans survive? Yes, but in what format? Will we be eating roaches once the corn dies off?
We just don't know, and there's nothing scarier in the world than that--and for some reason it doesn't scare people.

I'm here to tell you, be fucking scared. These are not dumb people who are overreaching. 200 years of scientific work and advancement have led us to this point.

You shouldn't deny this theory anymore than you should deny the theory of gravity. I agree, they might both be off--but they are not flat out wrong. They are on to something here, and it's worth writing home about.