Question For The Low P Flower Folks.

Dirtbag · Feb 26, 2019

I posted this in Fatmans sticky too but figured this will get more exposure..

I'm teetering on an experiment and I'd like some feedback from those of you running these low P formulas. I've had good results using the simple floranova line lately because well, I'm lazy. Based on the NPK do you guys think I'd do better running floranova grow all the way through flower? Its ratio is 1.75 to 1 to 2.5. ... would it be necessary to bump the Ca/N up a bit? The bloom formula is 4-8-7 and you guys have me seriously questioning using it..

Currently I'm in week 3 of flower, feeding 50/50 grow and bloom at 1.2ec, with another 0.4 ec of massive bloom 1-2-3. I suspect from reading through fatmans nutrient mixing guide that there is a better combination for these nutes. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

MIMedGrower · Feb 26, 2019

That grow ratio should work well in my opinion.

The high P is really meant for outdoor in the ground. Where P leaches easily from the soil. And i am guessing it comes from tomato growing.

I think cannabis likes a bit more K than N too.

And i dont expect you will need more calcium if you didnt before.

Dirtbag · Feb 26, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
That grow ratio should work well in my opinion.

The high P is really meant for outdoor in the ground. Where P leaches easily from the soil. And i am guessing it comes from tomato growing.

I think cannabis likes a bit more K than N too.

And i dont expect you will need more calcium if you didnt before.

Thanks, yeah the Calcium would just be to bump the N really since I have Calcium nitrate here. Cool, well I think I'm going to give it a shot for the rest of this run and see what happens.

MIMedGrower · Feb 26, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Thanks, yeah the Calcium would just be to bump the N really since I have Calcium nitrate here. Cool, well I think I'm going to give it a shot for the rest of this run and see what happens.

I tested botanicare kind trio and pure blend pro with cuttings fed only grow or only bloom past initial flowering and the grow plants all stayed healthier and yielded a bit higher. No premature yellowing and flavor and potency were picked blind by us and testers more than the bloom only flowers.

Also giving only what it seemed the plant needed no matter how late in the bloom cycle worked better than bloom alone too. Like if i saw some need for more pk i would give bloom that feeding and if i saw lighter green i would give grow.

Dirtbag · Feb 26, 2019

Awesome. Appreciate the info. I feel like my setup is pretty dialed in, I get great results already but there is always room for tweaking.

MIMedGrower · Feb 26, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Awesome. Appreciate the info. I feel like my setup is pretty dialed in, I get great results already but there is always room for tweaking.

Yeah man. I dont actually feel that comfortable giving you advice. Youre a walking horticultural encyclopedia.

:-)

Dirtbag · Feb 26, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Yeah man. I dont actually feel that comfortable giving you advice. Youre a walking horticultural encyclopedia.

:)

Nah man I appreciate it, but I'll never stop learning. There are many more knowledgeable growers out there than me, and keeping an open mind, keeping up with current science which changes all the time, and learning new techniques from hands on experience is what it's all about. Getting stuck doing things the same way over and over just because it works is not only boring, but the garden will never improve that way.

That said, one thing at a time eh? lol.

MIMedGrower · Feb 27, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Nah man I appreciate it, but I'll never stop learning. There are many more knowledgeable growers out there than me, and keeping an open mind, keeping up with current science which changes all the time, and learning new techniques from hands on experience is what it's all about. Getting stuck doing things the same way over and over just because it works is not only boring, but the garden will never improve that way.

That said, one thing at a time eh? lol.

Thats the best advice of all.

One thing at a time.

Dirtbag · Feb 28, 2019

I dont know about anyone else but I find this exciting as hell. I love learning new shit!

Looks like the Cannadian legal Cannabis community is starting to discover this low P phenomenon as we speak. I'm loving certain aspects of legalization. I wont lie. Let's do some science.

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/phosphorus-and-cannabis/

MIMedGrower · Feb 28, 2019

Have you listened to this interview with the dyna grow president @Dirtbag ? He tells all his lab results. Which prove the low P in the plant. And the fact the ratio doesnt really change much in flower.

Dirtbag · Feb 28, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Have you listened to this interview with the dyna grow president @Dirtbag ? He tells all his lab results. Which prove the low P in the plant. And the fact the ratio doesnt really change much in flower.

No but I'll listen to it in a little bit. Thanks for that.

I haven't messed with nutes for a long time. Most of my tweaking has been environmental for the past long while. So this really gets me excited. Especially because I'm at the perfect flowering stage to test it myself. Stoked.

MIMedGrower · Feb 28, 2019

Dirtbag said:
No but I'll listen to it in a little bit. Thanks for that.

I haven't messed with nutes for a long time. Most of my tweaking has been environmental for the past long while. So this really gets me excited. Especially because I'm at the perfect flowering stage to test it myself. Stoked.

For the last 4 years i have planted one plant at a time clones and seeds about every week to 10 days and harvested about the same.

I looked at every plant as a new grow and have been able to test all kinds of things. For a year i ran 3 known cuttings over and over to test lights and nutes.

I think i have seperated the facts from the forum hype. Well some of them.

See you at the next flushing argument thread. ;-)

Dirtbag · Feb 28, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
For the last 4 years i have planted one plant at a time clones and seeds about every week to 10 days and harvested about the same.

I looked at every plant as a new grow and have been able to test all kinds of things. For a year i ran 3 known cuttings over and over to test lights and nutes.

I think i have seperated the facts from the forum hype. Well some of them.

See you at the next flushing argument thread. ;-)

Right on buddy. That's exactly the kind of thing I like to learn from.

What's your take on flushing? I've done a bit of playing around with it, but again have just done what seems to work. I normally dont "flush" per se, but I do feed just water for the last week or two to let the plant use up what's in the soil. I have had to take plants down in week 8 before that didnt get the last week of straight water and they didnt burn so great.

Dirtbag · Feb 28, 2019

Dude, it's all adding up now... It could perfectly explain the mid-flower nosedive a lot of people see. They add high P in flower, by mid way through it builds up because its unused, and it starts binding with and locking out Ca. At the same time the reduced nitrogen just adds to the problem, when it doesnt even need the P, it needs a lot of Ca and N. I've probably avoided issues by feeding low conservative rates with plenty of runoff to prevent build up of P... wow.

I feel like a f**king lightbulb just came on and I'm super stoked about it. Haven't seen a revelation in growing this profound in a long time.

MIMedGrower · Feb 28, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Dude, it's all adding up now... It could perfectly explain the mid-flower nosedive a lot of people see. They add high P in flower, by mid way through it builds up because its unused, and it starts binding with and locking out Ca. At the same time the reduced nitrogen just adds to the problem, when it doesnt even need the P, it needs a lot of Ca and N. I've probably avoided issues by feeding low conservative rates with plenty of runoff to prevent build up of P... wow.

I feel like a f**king lightbulb just came on and I'm super stoked about it. Haven't seen a revelation in growing this profound in a long time.

Thats the light bulb that went off in my head too.

And i use well water. Its perfect at .3 ec with some sulpher and a little too much iron but it takes good runoff to manage.

But by week 5 on bloom nutes i got calcium spotting and upper tip and edge burn.

Phosphorous. Way too much. Without it in containers seems the potassium can uptake much longer without leaching (flushing) the pots.

Which brings me to your flushing question.

I try to fertilize each time only what the plant will actually need. Obviously with new seed plants i am just guessing but at this point in my experience i would yellow the plants right out amd show almost immediate potassium deficiency if i only gave water for the last 2 weeks. I have done many side by sides.

Thats how i started tapering the strength back down each watering through ripening and doing so got me more weight amd more potency.

My breeder says 7-8 weeks but i tend to go 10. Between the tapered feed and the extra time to ripen the flowers are more complex with more diverse cannabanoids and better longer lasting effects than before. They improved a lot. Everyone noticed.

I think bloom ratios and withholding nitrogen shortens the flower cycle prematurely. And fuller potential is available keeping the plant healthy a bit longer.

My opinion anyway.

Dirtbag · Feb 28, 2019

I really appreciate your input man. Thank you very much. I do tend to take my plants down around 9 weeks but what you're saying makes perfect sense considering the P fiasco. I'm very, very excited to see what comes of this grow I'm on now. Even at 27 days of flower it's already looking healthier, bigger, and frostier than previous runs. That could be partly from the Massive im using also, I broke one of my rules of experimentation there with trying two things at once. But let's just say it all seems to be working well so far.

Here is bubba at day 27. Looking way more sugary than it usually does on the leaves.

I guess I pressed the upload button twice... lol. Here it is twice.

MIMedGrower · Feb 28, 2019

Dirtbag said:
I really appreciate your input man. Thank you very much. I do tend to take my plants down around 9 weeks but what you're saying makes perfect sense considering the P fiasco. I'm very, very excited to see what comes of this grow I'm on now. Even at 27 days of flower it's already looking healthier, bigger, and frostier than previous runs. That could be partly from the Massive im using also, I broke one of my rules of experimentation there with trying two things at once. But let's just say it all seems to be working well so far.

Here is bubba at day 27. Looking way more sugary than it usually does on the leaves.

I guess I pressed the upload button twice... lol. Here it is twice.

View attachment 859021 View attachment 859021

She looks fantastic! And it is great chatting with you about all this stuff.

cemchris · Feb 28, 2019

Dirtbag said:
I posted this in Fatmans sticky too but figured this will get more exposure..

I'm teetering on an experiment and I'd like some feedback from those of you running these low P formulas. I've had good results using the simple floranova line lately because well, I'm lazy. Based on the NPK do you guys think I'd do better running floranova grow all the way through flower? Its ratio is 1.75 to 1 to 2.5. ... would it be necessary to bump the Ca/N up a bit? The bloom formula is 4-8-7 and you guys have me seriously questioning using it..

Currently I'm in week 3 of flower, feeding 50/50 grow and bloom at 1.2ec, with another 0.4 ec of massive bloom 1-2-3. I suspect from reading through fatmans nutrient mixing guide that there is a better combination for these nutes. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Just to answer your question from the first post

FNG will give you:

Which would work out to 536ppm @ 5.5ml/g. By itself it should work but you would prob have to add some cal nitrate and either epsom/some form of K if you want to get it higher. That is just from my style of blasting rockwool in drip so it might be different for you.. I havent personally run P that low but it might work out. Going over 5.5ml/g would prob bump the N too high (over 150ppm) and you might start seeing issues.

Dirtbag · Feb 28, 2019

cemchris said:
Just to answer your question from the first post

FNG will give you:

View attachment 859065

Which would work out to 536ppm @ 5.5ml/g. By itself it should work but you would prob have to add some cal nitrate and either epsom/some form of K if you want to get it higher. That is just from my style of blasting rockwool in drip so it might be different for you.. I havent personally run P that low but it might work out. Going over 5.5ml/g would prob bump the N too high (over 150ppm) and you might start seeing issues.

Damn I forgot about the canna calculator. Thanks for that. I'll be running the FNG at closer to 300ppm and making up the other ppm with massive 1-2-3 so that will change my numbers a bit. I'm gonna look into it, cheers. And thanks for the reminder about that calculator.

cemchris · Feb 28, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Damn I forgot about the canna calculator. Thanks for that. I'll be running the FNG at closer to 300ppm and making up the other ppm with massive 1-2-3 so that will change my numbers a bit. I'm gonna look into it, cheers. And thanks for the reminder about that calculator.

NP. That is actually from http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm

Def DL hydrobuddy also. That program is a fucking god send.

Question For The Low P Flower Folks.

Question For The Low P Flower Folks.

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Dirtbag

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Dirtbag

MIMedGrower

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Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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MIMedGrower

cemchris

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