Rain Water and Living Soil

SpursGrower · May 31, 2024

Hi

Currently I’m in mid flower with a couple of autos (1 x FB Blue Dream, 1 x Zam Bluberry).

This is my 3rd grow but the 1st time I’ve tried living soils.

Indoor grow in 20l pots, with LED lighting. limited space as it’s a setup at home and it’s still illegal in my country.

I have many questions but I’m trying to learn from the information already here on the forums so I don’t piss people off asking things that have already been answered.

However, that said I do have one I can’t find a concrete answer for.

Is there an issue with using rain water with living soil under LED light?

I know my plants have some deficiency’s and from the info gathered so far I think it is just because I followed the directions for my dry amendments but too late or the nutrients in the soil just ran out quicker then expected.

BUT….. while frantically trying to diagnose my problem I found a thread on another site that said something along the lines of

“rain water isn’t good with living soil as the TDS ppm is too low and the plant can’t take up the nutrients”

Supposedly it’s similar to RO water in that regard and you need to raise the ppm’s with something like cal/mag to around 400ppm.

But then adding cal/mag to the rain water could have a negative effect on the microbes in the soil.

I’ve got myself all confused . If anyone can shed some light and maybe explain the science behind that idea (if it’s even true?) I’d be eternally grateful.

Whew that was long winded…..

Thanks in advance

Zill · May 31, 2024

Don’t over think this.

Use rainwater, sure. Check pH before you use.

Imzzaudae · May 31, 2024

“rain water isn’t good with living soil as the TDS ppm is too low and the plant can’t take up the nutrients”

I cannot believe anyone would print a statement like this peace of stupidity!
If this where true there would not be a plant anyplace.

Frankly rain water is the best water you can provide your plant.
The problem is not the water. The problem is guys mixing up peat moss, worm castings and bat crap then calling it living soil.
There may be a few microbes in it but this is not living soil. You could stretch it and cal it organic as it's ingredients are all organic but it is not a living soil.

Living soil is Composted garden matter, sand, top soil, manor, All of the local microscopic life in the soil to break down the compost and manor into plant available nutrients.

Top picture. See the way the leaves are cupping. This is light stress. The yellow leaves dropping is your plant telling you it's hungry for nitrogen. Your plant is light stressed and hungry.
When growing in living soil we must use very large pots in order to have enough living microbial life creating food for a rather hungry plant.
Even then growing living soil in large pots one must know what to feed the soil and super charge the microbial life within the soil buy

1) Growing and adding microbes.

2) JLF

3) Then utilize things like wood ash.

Garden like a viking.

Garden Like a Viking

The time is now to reawaken the spirit of our ancestors and grow food using ancient techniques that enrich the land instead of depleting it. Send Packages To: Garden Like A Viking P.O. Box 9101 Fort Wayne, Indiana, 46899

www.youtube.com

Hope this helps you.

SpursGrower · May 31, 2024

Imzzaudae said:
“rain water isn’t good with living soil as the TDS ppm is too low and the plant can’t take up the nutrients”

I cannot believe anyone would print a statement like this peace of stupidity!
If this where true there would not be a plant anyplace.

Frankly rain water is the best water you can provide your plant.
The problem is not the water. The problem is guys mixing up peat moss, worm castings and bat crap then calling it living soil.
There may be a few microbes in it but this is not living soil. You could stretch it and cal it organic as it's ingredients are all organic but it is not a living soil.

Living soil is Composted garden matter, sand, top soil, manor, All of the local microscopic life in the soil to break down the compost and manor into plant available nutrients.

Top picture. See the way the leaves are cupping. This is light stress. The yellow leaves dropping is your plant telling you it's hungry for nitrogen. Your plant is light stressed and hungry.
When growing in living soil we must use very large pots in order to have enough living microbial life creating food for a rather hungry plant.
Even then growing living soil in large pots one must know what to feed the soil and super charge the microbial life within the soil buy

1) Growing and adding microbes.

2) JLF

3) Then utilize things like wood ash.

Garden like a viking.

Garden Like a Viking

The time is now to reawaken the spirit of our ancestors and grow food using ancient techniques that enrich the land instead of depleting it. Send Packages To: Garden Like A Viking P.O. Box 9101 Fort Wayne, Indiana, 46899

www.youtube.com

Hope this helps you.

Thanks for all that.

I guess I’m the guy who fell for the bat shit and worm castings sales bit.

It’s looking like true living soil is not the way forward for me at the moment as I just don’t have the space to compost enough of my own materials.

What would you suggest as a fix for this now?
I have bottled synthetic nutrients I used on my first grow, if I use them to get the plant fed what ratio would you use? Is it ok to give high nitrogen while in flower?

Thanks again

LoveGrowingIt · May 31, 2024

Imzzaudae said:
“rain water isn’t good with living soil as the TDS ppm is too low and the plant can’t take up the nutrients”

I cannot believe anyone would print a statement like this peace of stupidity!

Yep! That's a dumb thing to say. Rainwater wouldn't have any dissolved minerals, so they'll need to be amended. So, Azomite is likely to be helpful. Testing the pH could be helpful. If I worried about anything, it might be pollutants from contact with the air.

BearWater · May 31, 2024

SpursGrower said:
I have many questions but I’m trying to learn from the information already here on the forums so I don’t piss people off asking things that have already been answered.

Definitely try and find some stuff on your own : ) but you will not piss anyone off by asking your questions here. Or at least not enough for them to say anything. And if they do (non moderator who gives a fuck) listen to the mods lol : )

SpursGrower · May 31, 2024

LoveGrowingIt said:
Yep! That's a dumb thing to say. Rainwater wouldn't have any dissolved minerals, so they'll need to be amended. So, Azomite is likely to be helpful. Testing the pH could be helpful. If I worried about anything, it might be pollutants from contact with the air.

Hi
I think that’s the point they were trying to make, Specifically to using living soil, rain water and LED lights.

The fact that straight up rain water wouldn’t contain any calcium or magnesium which is extra important (or so I’ve read) when growing under LED lighting. It said to basically treat rain water like it was reverse osmosis water and add in the extra cal/mag to get ppm to around 400.

At which point I was worried that a synthetic cal/mag (is there an organic fast acting alternative? I’ve got garden lime and gypsum but won’t they take a few days or longer to break down?) would kill off the microbes in the soil.

Thanks

LoveGrowingIt · May 31, 2024

SpursGrower said:
At which point I was worried that a synthetic cal/mag (is there an organic fast acting alternative? I’ve got garden lime and gypsum but won’t they take a few days or longer to break down?) would kill off the microbes in the soil.

I don't use CalMag. Instead, I use gypsum (calcium sulfate) and Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate). I add Epsom Salt to the irrigation water, and that's fast. I have fewer problems with calcium deficiency, so I top dress the gypsum with the other nutrients, including some Epsom Salt. That seems to solve magnesium deficiency problems for me. Problems with excess magnesium seem to be rare.

Although agricultural lime has magnesium, it also tends to raise pH. Gypsum, on the other hand, doesn't affect pH, and that's why I use it.

I don't know about the effect on microbes, but tend to doubt there'd be problems with normal doses of nutrients.

LoveGrowingIt · May 31, 2024

SpursGrower said:
The fact that straight up rain water wouldn’t contain any calcium or magnesium

... or other trace elements the plants need.

SpursGrower · May 31, 2024

LoveGrowingIt said:
I don't use CalMag. Instead, I use gypsum (calcium sulfate) and Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate). I add Epsom Salt to the irrigation water, and that's fast. I have fewer problems with calcium deficiency, so I top dress the gypsum with the other nutrients, including some Epsom Salt. That seems to solve magnesium deficiency problems for me. Problems with excess magnesium seem to be rare.

Although agricultural lime has magnesium, it also tends to raise pH. Gypsum, on the other hand, doesn't affect pH, and that's why I use it.

I don't know about the effect on microbes, but tend to doubt there'd be problems with normal doses of nutrients.

How often are you adding Epsom salt to your water and what quantities are we talking?

Thanks for the info

LoveGrowingIt · May 31, 2024

SpursGrower said:
How often are you adding Epsom salt to your water and what quantities are we talking?

I add it dry when I mix soil or top dress. Then I watch the leaves for interveinal chlorosis, which I interpret as the plant needing more than I added to the soil. I mix 1 tablespoon of Epsom Salt per 1 gallon of water. Be aware that other deficiencies can cause chlorosis. It's just that Mg deficiency is the most likely, in my experience. If adding it doesn't help, then there's probably some other problem.

SpursGrower said:
Thanks for the info

Oh, you're welcome. I hope this helps.

Natep · May 31, 2024

Use the rain water. If you are worried about a calcium deficiency in make water soluble calcium. Cook egg shells til golden brown then dissolve in vinegar. Dilute at 1000:1 ration. Magnesium is easy enough with dissolving epson salt. Also I agree with the moving the light further away. I am also one of those guys that used worm casting peat and pumice to make a living soil. But I’ve also added pre charged bio char, imo2, basalt,craft blend, worms, nematodes locally harvest silts and clays.

Natep · May 31, 2024

Oh and go with larger pots. No less than 15 gallon. No such thing as to big.

Imzzaudae · May 31, 2024

SpursGrower said:
Thanks for all that.

I guess I’m the guy who fell for the bat shit and worm castings sales bit.

It’s looking like true living soil is not the way forward for me at the moment as I just don’t have the space to compost enough of my own materials.

What would you suggest as a fix for this now?
I have bottled synthetic nutrients I used on my first grow, if I use them to get the plant fed what ratio would you use? Is it ok to give high nitrogen while in flower?

Thanks again

Take a good look at this amendment. It is just what you are looking for. I meant to post it earlier for you but got side tracked looking after my own day. Hope this helps.
Gaia Green.

SpursGrower · Jun 1, 2024

Imzzaudae said:
Take a good look at this amendment. It is just what you are looking for. I meant to post it earlier for you but got side tracked looking after my own day. Hope this helps.
Gaia Green.

Thanks for the vids

Gaia green is pretty expensive here in the uk as it generally has to be imported. I do have dry amendments that I bought with the “living” soil that appear to have similar ingredients and N-P-K to what is used in the first video.

Would it be too much to ask for you to have a look at them if I put some pics here and give me your opinion?

SpursGrower · Jun 1, 2024

So here’s what I’ve got.

I’m going to start a new grow in the next couple of days and I really want to use this stuff as the pictures below are the best part of £200 and I can’t let that go to waste.

This soil is also what’s in my current grow.
It’s advertised as “living soil” and according to the website, in a 5 gallon pot the only dry amendments needed are 40g 2-8-10 bloom each in week 3 and 5 of flower.

Then when the grow is finished amend the soil with 300g of the 4-3-4 complete and you’re good to go again for another grow.

Is this any good? It does have good reviews but obviously I’ve run into problems while using the recommended amounts.

SpursGrower · Jun 1, 2024

I also have the following from my last grow a couple of years ago and things I keep for my garden.

ArtVandelay · Jun 30, 2024

Imzzaudae said:
“rain water isn’t good with living soil as the TDS ppm is too low and the plant can’t take up the nutrients”

I cannot believe anyone would print a statement like this peace of stupidity!
If this where true there would not be a plant anyplace.

Frankly rain water is the best water you can provide your plant.
The problem is not the water. The problem is guys mixing up peat moss, worm castings and bat crap then calling it living soil.
There may be a few microbes in it but this is not living soil. You could stretch it and cal it organic as it's ingredients are all organic but it is not a living soil.

Living soil is Composted garden matter, sand, top soil, manor, All of the local microscopic life in the soil to break down the compost and manor into plant available nutrients.

Top picture. See the way the leaves are cupping. This is light stress. The yellow leaves dropping is your plant telling you it's hungry for nitrogen. Your plant is light stressed and hungry.
When growing in living soil we must use very large pots in order to have enough living microbial life creating food for a rather hungry plant.
Even then growing living soil in large pots one must know what to feed the soil and super charge the microbial life within the soil buy

1) Growing and adding microbes.

2) JLF

3) Then utilize things like wood ash.

Garden like a viking.

Garden Like a Viking

The time is now to reawaken the spirit of our ancestors and grow food using ancient techniques that enrich the land instead of depleting it. Send Packages To: Garden Like A Viking P.O. Box 9101 Fort Wayne, Indiana, 46899

www.youtube.com

Hope this helps you.

I also cannot believe that

tonyww93 · Jun 30, 2024

Ya most the living soil mixes is a joke unless u get someone that knows about the clean up crew/microbes for the long term (can be used for season after season without rotation) takes a while to fully establish one

ArtVandelay · Jun 30, 2024

I also cannot believe that anyone would tell you rainwater is bad. It's sad to even read that folks would be so suseptible to tiktok/youtube nonsense.
Forget cannabis for a moment...ya ever grow a tomato plant or a cucumber? Ever notice how big your plants get after a nice rain followed by sunshine? You don't need a phd to know that rain water is better than your 60 degree tap water loaded with chlorine and fluoride.
Get a breakdown of your local tap water and see the list of chemicals. You'll chuckle and never doubt rain water again.

Your soil is far from living when it gets doused by chlorine/chloromine every day.

Rain Water and Living Soil

Rain Water and Living Soil

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