Really high soil runoff PH around 8.0-8.1

Cdub97 · Dec 22, 2019

I've got some plants. Here's the specs.
-amended FF Soil with some 40% "filler" from my outdoor raised beds
-# 5 gallon fabric pot
-Week 6 flower
-feeding FF trio, epson salts, sucanat, calcium
-temps 75-78 daytime and 59-62 nights
-RH about 50-60%
-good air circulation
-plants under CMH and HPS lights and are off the floor
-feeding PPM is usually around 900-1200PPM depending on the feeding (source well water is 300 PPM to start)

I'm getting some significant nutrient lockout. I think it's PH related. I'm adjusting my water for feedings and waterings to about 6.4-6.6. I't's HARD well water and it is untreated. It usually measures between 8.2-8.1 before I adjust it with food grade citric acid. I use about 1 teaspoon of citric acid to adjust 5 gallons of water.

These plants are losing foliage like crazy. Just every single leaf from the bottom up.

Today I measured PPM coming from runoff and it was around 1500 so I decided to go ahead and do a flush of 5 gallons of PH'd water through the pots. I ran 5 gallons through and got each plant to a PPM runoff of about 550.

BUT THE RUNOFF PH WAS ALWAYS 8.0-8.15?!?! I'm putting in 6.4-6.6 and I'm getting 8.0-8.1 even after 5 gallons run through it. WHAT THE HELL?

I realize I need to do a soil slurry test and I have a different meter for that. I plan on doing that next to see what that indicates.

There seems to be a total lack of understanding on using water that tests high PH for indoor growing. A lot of folks say they never treat their water but they've not had to grow with water so alkaline. It's very frustrating and I'd like to know what's happening.

MIMedGrower · Dec 22, 2019

Cdub97 said:
I've got some plants. Here's the specs.
-amended FF Soil with some 40% "filler" from my outdoor raised beds
-# 5 gallon fabric pot
-Week 6 flower
-feeding FF trio, epson salts, sucanat, calcium
-temps 75-78 daytime and 59-62 nights
-RH about 50-60%
-good air circulation
-plants under CMH and HPS lights and are off the floor
-feeding PPM is usually around 900-1200PPM depending on the feeding (source well water is 300 PPM to start)

I'm getting some significant nutrient lockout. I think it's PH related. I'm adjusting my water for feedings and waterings to about 6.4-6.6. I't's HARD well water and it is untreated. It usually measures between 8.2-8.1 before I adjust it with food grade citric acid. I use about 1 teaspoon of citric acid to adjust 5 gallons of water.

These plants are losing foliage like crazy. Just every single leaf from the bottom up.

Today I measured PPM coming from runoff and it was around 1500 so I decided to go ahead and do a flush of 5 gallons of PH'd water through the pots. I ran 5 gallons through and got each plant to a PPM runoff of about 550.

BUT THE RUNOFF PH WAS ALWAYS 8.0-8.15?!?! I'm putting in 6.4-6.6 and I'm getting 8.0-8.1 even after 5 gallons run through it. WHAT THE HELL?

I realize I need to do a soil slurry test and I have a different meter for that. I plan on doing that next to see what that indicates.

There seems to be a total lack of understanding on using water that tests high PH for indoor growing. A lot of folks say they never treat their water but they've not had to grow with water so alkaline. It's very frustrating and I'd like to know what's happening.

What is the ppm of your source water?

And the feed ppm you quoted is way to high.

Cdub97 · Dec 22, 2019

As I said the source well water is about 300PPM.

Not sure what my feeding PPM's should be but I've measured them and they've varied between 900-1200.

Not sure why it would be way too high. Following recommended amounts and often quite less. An example would be 1 teaspoon of grow big, 2 teaspoons of tiger bloom, 1 tablespoon of big bloom, 1 tablespoon sucanat, 1 teaspoon of epson salt, 1 teaspoon liquid calcium.

oldskol4evr · Dec 22, 2019

Cdub97 said:
I've got some plants. Here's the specs.
-amended FF Soil with some 40% "filler" from my outdoor raised beds
-# 5 gallon fabric pot
-Week 6 flower
-feeding FF trio, epson salts, sucanat, calcium
-temps 75-78 daytime and 59-62 nights
-RH about 50-60%
-good air circulation
-plants under CMH and HPS lights and are off the floor
-feeding PPM is usually around 900-1200PPM depending on the feeding (source well water is 300 PPM to start)

I'm getting some significant nutrient lockout. I think it's PH related. I'm adjusting my water for feedings and waterings to about 6.4-6.6. I't's HARD well water and it is untreated. It usually measures between 8.2-8.1 before I adjust it with food grade citric acid. I use about 1 teaspoon of citric acid to adjust 5 gallons of water.

These plants are losing foliage like crazy. Just every single leaf from the bottom up.

Today I measured PPM coming from runoff and it was around 1500 so I decided to go ahead and do a flush of 5 gallons of PH'd water through the pots. I ran 5 gallons through and got each plant to a PPM runoff of about 550.

BUT THE RUNOFF PH WAS ALWAYS 8.0-8.15?!?! I'm putting in 6.4-6.6 and I'm getting 8.0-8.1 even after 5 gallons run through it. WHAT THE HELL?

I realize I need to do a soil slurry test and I have a different meter for that. I plan on doing that next to see what that indicates.

There seems to be a total lack of understanding on using water that tests high PH for indoor growing. A lot of folks say they never treat their water but they've not had to grow with water so alkaline. It's very frustrating and I'd like to know what's happening.

does te filler from your outside bed have lime and or bone meal in it

oldskol4evr · Dec 22, 2019

Cdub97 said:
As I said the source well water is about 300PPM.

Not sure what my feeding PPM's should be but I've measured them and they've varied between 900-1200.

Not sure why it would be way too high. Following recommended amounts and often quite less. An example would be 1 teaspoon of grow big, 2 teaspoons of tiger bloom, 1 tablespoon of big bloom, 1 tablespoon sucanat, 1 teaspoon of epson salt, 1 teaspoon liquid calcium.

if you take the 300 away from the 900 your only feeding 600 ppm that would be alright for a vegging plant,were are you at on growth,pic are worth a1000 words

Cdub97 · Dec 22, 2019

The filler dirt is some stuff we grew tomatoes in outside this summer. It had a lot of sand in it. It was some raised bed compost mix they sell at one of those bulk mulch/raised_bed places. I didn't have anything else and was short on FF dirt so I cut it.

These are in flower so it's really more like 600-900...depending.

I'll add pics later. I'm so sick and tired of posting pics of my shitty looking plants. I feel like I'm the only idiot putting in so much fucking effort with just horseshit results.

MIMedGrower · Dec 22, 2019

300 ppm source water and all the calcium in the nutes is likely building up and raising the ph past neutral and locking the plant up.

Standard practice with such hard water is to mix 50/50 with ro water so you start with 150 ppm.

I prefer to feed a little each watering and rarely get over 1.4ec/ 750 ppm in potting soil. There is always still some left in the soil so it builds up. I also taper down nute strength after peak flowering as the calyx swell and pistils recede they need less and less.

Cdub97 · Dec 22, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
300 ppm source water and all the calcium in the nutes is likely building up and raising the ph past neutral and locking the plant up.

I did quite a bit of reading today and from everything I have read nutrient buildup always causes a low PH or acidification. I've not read hardly any cases where it causes it to go basic. I suspect IT may be due to the fact that my source water is already so alkaline. Maybe my citric acid adjustments just aren't holding. Perhaps I should go with a diluted phosphoric acid solution to lower the PH of the source water. Maybe would be more stable?

RO isn't going to happen but rainwater collection could become a thing.

MIMedGrower · Dec 22, 2019

Cdub97 said:
I did quite a bit of reading today and from everything I have read nutrient buildup always causes a low PH or acidification. I've not read hardly any cases where it causes it to go basic. I suspect IT may be due to the fact that my source water is already so alkaline. Maybe my citric acid adjustments just aren't holding. Perhaps I should go with a diluted phosphoric acid solution to lower the PH of the source water. Maybe would be more stable?

RO isn't going to happen but rainwater collection could become a thing.

I agree. Ordinarily nute buildup would result in a acidic soil. But with hard water its like pouring in a dose of lime each time you water. And im just guessing from here. :-)

Maybe a brita filter for the faucet meets the budget? Bet it knocks the ppm down a good bit.

Really high soil runoff PH around 8.0-8.1

Really high soil runoff PH around 8.0-8.1

Cdub97

MIMedGrower

Cdub97

oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

Cdub97

MIMedGrower

Cdub97

MIMedGrower

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