Particularly relevant, in my mind, is the CIA connection.
Bush Sr is reported to still receive CIA briefings ever since he was director.
Bin Laden said to be asset, made public when documents came to light showing we supported the Taliban to get Russia out of Afghanistan. A fight Russia would have taken up had our choppers gotten there first..

But then even a "its just business" attitude seems to be at play here- you can't build a pipeline in hostile environments..

A few Senators are making noise about Saudi Royals... This is where I'd like to see more investigating directed

Somewhere along I got the idea that the intelligence apparatus is a connected one...
CIA is ISI is MI6,
and governments were the entertainment-like symbolic arm of social control over free range humans that masks the nature of this existence...

I can't seem to perceive past this idea, this bias... probably stems from childhood psychology and reinforced by my literary preferences of teenage years, but still, seems right to me!

Interesting points TTYSTIKK

NaturalTherapy said:

Wow. Excellent diversion... Are we to completely disregard that the architect of the WTC designed the building to withstand just such a blow, you think he didn't know what to expect?

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I don't think. I KNOW AS AN INDISPUTABLE FACT that he didn't know what to expect. Where did he test his design? [Hint: It's not possible to] It follows that his design was AN ATTEMPT to allow for this, not a design which was tested and the deployed as a KNOWN counter to a given situation. We can only predict what we can test, and since we don't have a WTC crash test site, and the architect didn't have one--there is essentially NO KNOWN EXPECTATION for this type of an event. We know what, perhaps the FINAL state of a plane crash with a building looks like--but if you knew a lot about physics you'd know that mass and velocity have A shitload to say about what will happen during a collision. Its the difference between me hitting u with a switch under the power of my arm--and it moving at near the speed of light. In 1, you get a welt, in 2--you're cut in half before you even feel the pain.

NaturalTherapy said:

Actually we do have some idea of what to expect since these are not the only buildings in history to be hit by a plane, but they are the only buildings so far recorded that have collapsed as a result of it.

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No, we don't--not in the context you are attempting to place it. You're trying to make building mean something as simply as oxygen. Oxygen is oxygen, building isn't building. They aren't all the same thing. Plane isn't plane, either, for that matter.

NaturalTherapy said:

Now, otherwise hard to explain (because of all the variable you delineated) phenomena witnessed there do have precedent, but are only unexplainable in the context of official findings.

Add in thermite plasma and the pools of molten metal lingering for weeks have precedent, and it's more likely than any other explanation.
Add in controlled demolition to the numerous explosions and the free fall nature of the buildings' collapse, and it's more likely than any other explanation.

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Ugh, how not to be an asshole about this. Okay--what you just said was probably the worst chemical explanation I've ever heard in my life about any concept and in any context. That was the nicest I could say it. I typed easily 20 sentences here before I got it to something that nice.

If I didn't like you, my knee-jerk reply would be--what does that even MEAN?

NaturalTherapy said:

And then there's the building that collapsed for no apparent reason
TV said "probably from the concussion of the planes hitting, or maybe the heat of the fire weakened that building and it collapsed, too much structural damage incurred when the other buildings collapsed"... bullshit... remember the BBC report about the collapse of building 7, given moments before it actually collapsed, while the reporter stood in front of a studio window that showed that very building still standing in the background.

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Again, we don't know what to expect in this event. You think that I'm the distraction--I'm telling you that people who have been claiming to have proof about what happened are the distractors. The TRUTH is that WE CANNOT KNOW FOR SURE what happened--not unless the people who planned and executed it tell us from the grave.

Here's the problem--if you don't know what to expect, you don't know whether to call something strange or not. This would be like making a new chemical and finding out it has a certain property by testing it one time and then saying "that's strange". In what context is it strange? You just did the FIRST ever test on this material--what were your expectations for it (of course chemistry does allow us to have some expectations for molecules--but that is because we do have discrete models of how we expect them to behave---In EXTREMELY STARK CONTRAST with a pair of jumbo jets hitting the world trade center, that has only happened just the 1 time).

NaturalTherapy said:

Plenty of literature out there documenting this stuff... Bush crimes go back to funding the Nazi war machine, before George Sr ever even sat in his CIA post

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And any of it which is reliable will not seek to make an definitive conclusion about it--because a good scientist knows their limitations, and I've just explained many of them to you here as it regards this event.

We do not have a REAL LIFE, PHYSICAL, model of what to expect from this event. Therefore we cannot make quality judgments as to what should've happened or what shouldn't have. As for thermite plasma argument, I refer you--once again-- to:

[Fuckshitasston number] both buildings (g,s,l) + 2 plane(g,s,l) --Retardedly Hot Fire--> Who the fuck knows?
Answer: Not you, not anyone, ever.

Never ever ever.

I'll warn you--the next reply I have to make to defend this elementary scientific point, which follows very simply from the full body of scientific knowledge we've gained to this day as a species (and has been mimicked in every bit of science since day one), is going to get super disgustingly mathy.

By then it will be clear you've brought a knife to a thermonuclear war as it regards the end of the "9/11 conspiracy"

There just isn't any solid evidence for ANY of it. All there is, at THE VERY VERY BEST, is conjecture--and even that is on shaky ground.

Don't be duped by a bunch of people who couldn't even compute the cross product of a vector who are desperate to make this tragedy, in any way, fit into a scheme whereby our government (or GB) was behind it.

They don't have proof. I have given you a SOLID, INDISPUTABLE, SCIENTIFIC reasoning--with examples and evidence to my claim--and it passes the most important test in science. Is it simple? Yes, it is.

This is like If I gave you this equation.

x^3 + y^2 + z^3 + d^4 + 5g^8 = 115467

x=3

Find integers which correspond to y, z, d, and g.

You can't do it. I haven't given you enough information. That's what SCIENCE VERY CLEARLY SAYS about this event. Now guys like the MIT engineers who did the report make some ASSUMPTIONS so that they can get SOME analysis out of it--but it is NOT NOT NOT a complete analysis, and every scientist on that team will tell you that flatly to your face.

Science is less about what we know, and wayyyy more about what we don't. Please don't be duped into thinking that pseudo-science is the same as science. It's not, it just looks like it.

Pseudo-science:Science , Mormonism:Christianity.

ttystikk said:

eliminating what could not be the cause is often essential to finding what did.

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THIS THIS THIS THIS.

Thats what science is all about--and THAT is why knowing the initial and intermediate states of the event AS IT HAPPENS is SO IMPORTANT.

THIS is why we do crash dummy tests, in a nutshell--and it's why we'd need to do WTC crash tests (to scale) in order to start labeling things as "unexpected" or "anomalies" as it regards BOTH chemistry AND physics.

As squiggs mentioned... Different variables, different outcome. Allow Sequestration under current Admin., Shake Libya well, Add AirBus ACJ319 (max range 6000 nautical mi. +600 reserve) A pinch of Weaponized Uranium via. Iran's unchecked nuclear program and A Tactical Nuke via. the unlimited supply of money available for Terrorism in the middle east... Bake for A couple of months and deliver to Washington on non stop flight 5,351 nautical miles and BOOM! Not just A few buildings I would think. Not to worry, nothing like that could ever happen...

Now we're cooking!!

The players are all on the board for A "New" game. Obama shakes his finger (BFD) and sanctions Iraq as they continue to sprint for nuclear weapons capability and have stated on many occasions their only goal in life is that Iseral is not allowed to exist/wiped from the map. Netanyahu, leader of the "Only" democratic country in the middle east and our ally is isolated and insulted by Obama's lack of concern or support as the window of oppertunity for A strike closes due to time of year and weather (seasonal) and is now far more likely to strike with or without U.S. backing. Libya flips off U.S. and their lead from behind strategy and diplomats are killed at embassy which is considered an act of war. Obama appologizes again after Alzawahi incites millitants for the killing of his leutenant, who is Libyan at birth and his brother is sited at embassy protest before the Embassy killings... This could be the game of the century. What will the U.S.P.A. (United Socialist Pussies of America) do? Wait til' after the election like everything else?

Egypt is no longer U.S. friendly after arab spring and is now muslim brotherhood... Can you say YaLaLaLaLaLa Jihad?

For this simplified version of circumstances in the middle east for the people that might not relate I ask that you replace Kim Jong il (Dead and no longer poses threat) with Pres. of Iran Ahmadinejad...

Albert Einstein Quotes. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Warning signs... The writings on the wall. Sequestration is shear stupidity

Wow dude.

I gotta be honest, this is the non-scientific reason I never bought the conspiracies. I realized it didn't have to be complex to be sinister. Ugh.

It really bothers me that this is coming from a fairly credibly source--because that means the best case scenario of the terrorists got lucky is now off the table. Now we have to point fingers at least a little bit.

That sucks. I hate Bush, and I'd want any piece of dirt on him but this one. This is one thing I wanted him to have gotten at least somewhat right. Now its like, is he dumb for real--did he do it on purpose?

I always thought he was playing dumb, personally--and I don't like that leads me along that line of reasoning.

See something like THIS--this really smells bad. There's no need for a stretch or jump to get there. THIS is what figuring something out looks like--not some illuminati-esque scheme.

Sends shivers down my spine. Gross feeling for sure.

Bush was just a pawn. The rabbit hole goes deeper.

I'm with kolah..every time I think about this I want to know 2 simple things..info on the plane hitting the pentagon and why the 3rd tower wasn't included in the report..fuck I can't believe I'm evening allowing myself to think about this again! It's a bunch of bullshit..we planned, organized, and executed it all - just like all major bullshit that happens in the US

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed”
Adolf Hitler

I like this "Mad Book aka Alfred E. Neuman" style satire:

squiggly said:

Wow dude.


I always thought he was playing dumb, personally--and I don't like that leads me along that line of reasoning.

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Agreed. I think this was Bush's ultimate genius, to make almost everyone think he was dumb when he is anything but. I found this on youtube f, its only a minor proof though. The first thing i ever saw of g.w. was long ago on a morning news program in the 80's dealing with the savings and loans scandals. The video does not seem available on the web but what I remembered was the similarities between him and his dad, and then seeing G.W. again in 00 and so on sounding very idiotic and "folksy" seemed immediately fishy to me.

As far as the Bush family history it surely is gnarly, for lack of better terms, and to use a cliche the more I learn about them the less I know. There are many publications that deal with the Prescott Bush and his and many others financing of Germany in WW2 for both sides, its a smart power move just lacks all morality.

SoCal 420 said:

The players are all on the board for A "New" game. Obama shakes his finger (BFD) and sanctions Iraq as they continue to sprint for nuclear weapons capability and have stated on many occasions their only goal in life is that Iseral is not allowed to exist/wiped from the map. Netanyahu, leader of the "Only" democratic country in the middle east and our ally is isolated and insulted by Obama's lack of concern or support as the window of oppertunity for A strike closes due to time of year and weather (seasonal) and is now far more likely to strike with or without U.S. backing. Libya flips off U.S. and their lead from behind strategy and diplomats are killed at embassy which is considered an act of war. Obama appologizes again after Alzawahi incites millitants for the killing of his leutenant, who is Libyan at birth and his brother is sited at embassy protest before the Embassy killings... This could be the game of the century. What will the U.S.P.A. (United Socialist Pussies of America) do? Wait til' after the election like everything else?

Click to expand...

you seriously aren't trying to stoke an Israeli war argument online are you? I mean maybe if the U.S./England had given them Alaska instead of putting them square in the middle of extremely religious territory the 20th and 21st centuries would surely be different. Netanyahu is fucking nuts man, a war with Iran would be a disaster. The Iranian people love Americans, they are more misrepresented by their governments than we are by ours. I know you have said you are not a Republican, but you sure seem to be arguing from the Republican side of things an awful lot like right here. If I may ask why do you not consider yourself a Republican? Where do you not fall in line with the ideology on the right?

It looks like G.Dubya is reading that word for word (can you say teleprompter?). He's a dumb- fuck pawn, plain and simple and they used him like a redheaded step-child. Towards the end of his presidency he was so laced up on anti depressants that he became a fricken zombie. Karma has it's laws.

I guess I differ with you Kolah in that I think he and his family are a big part of "they", assuming there is a "they".

My point was that he was reading scripts.