Room spec questions

lime6161 · Dec 11, 2009

This looks like a great system and I am looking forward to getting a grow started. Hats off to dd.

This will be my first vertical grow and I am wondering what you would consider proper ceiling height? The past few years I have been in a rut of low ones. Also there would be no 'sub basement' under the room.

I am considering a 4 plant room set up in a perpetual style. The med state im in allows 2 flowering plants at a time so i would stagger them to comply. Can anyone point me to any problems with this? Would i run 2 separate rez? Should the growing area be bigger than 10 x 10 to allow for some extra working room? Any comments would be a help thx.

easypleasie · Dec 12, 2009

Hey bro, 10x10 is big enough for 4-5 big plants. 8ft ceiling is good. You can probably get away with it being a little lower but not much. And only 2 flowering plants at a time? Do you have a separate room for veg? Also, do you have another space for your res, chillers, ballasts? You might need to partition that room up.

You'll need a flower room, veg room, and room for your all your equipment. Might be able to combine the veg room with your chiller/res/ballast space...depends on how hot it gets in there. You won't need that much space for veg since you will only have 2-4 girls and a mom or two. What are you allowed to have for plant totals?

lime6161 · Dec 13, 2009

Thx ep, your plants look very nice.

I will have a sep space for the eqipment, and a separate veg space. Im thinking of building a space for this grow so i may start from scratch. For arguments sake and flexibilty, if you did grow some sats a 14 foot ceil be enough?

We can have a total of 9 plants wit 2 of those being in flower. The line in the sand is when buds become buds. So for efficency sake im leaning towards a perpetual type set up. My mothers will be kept off site. Due to the plant #s ive never really considered the state sanctioned route but, looks like were on to something with these buckets.

Boots Sugarleaf · Dec 13, 2009

I would love to see some double stacked thouies and some 12 week sativa's with 14 foot ceilings....that would be great! need some more serious support than just fencing for that though, some eyebolts in the ceiling above each plant with rope coming down tied tight to the tub, then just use green tie tape to tie her as she grows the length of that rope

easypleasie · Dec 13, 2009

14ft would probably be more than enough :). You'd probably need to triple stack lights to max out the coverage on the plants. But dammit if it wouldn't be a serious producer lol

If it was me and I could only flower 2, at minimum i'd run 3k lights. If you really wanna go crazy, start double/triple stacking lights and let them veg longer to get nice and big. There are many configurations that will work, just gotta find one that works best for you and your needs.

With a new space, you have all kinds of possibilities. But do your research and plan it out or you'll find yourself in situations that can really limit what you want to do.

kushpheen · Dec 18, 2009

I'm planning a room of similar size, 11x13. Whats the consensus on optimum plant #s, spacing and lighting?

flying lotus · Dec 18, 2009

a chart or something on room size vs # of lights and plants would be perfect.

it sounds like you need about a 4x4 space and 2k min to run 1 plant... but it also looks like we have a lot of the same questions. i want to do 2 plants in a 5lx9wx7h tent with 3k in it. I am hesitant to run it without more homework tho. perhaps DD has answered this question a few times before but i have been reading the threads and find people doing a 40 inch measurement from center to center of the plants for spacing copying DD's so you might try and space your room out that way. either way good luck on your project bro.

bavimtwi · Dec 25, 2009

I accept with information:

OregonMeds · Dec 27, 2009

If you can only do two plants you should throw as much light on them as you can. 4kw per plant would be ideal. It would take 6kw in ballasts and a flop. If you can't swing that, just do what you can knowing you are limited by light. If you throw 4k per plant and match dd's success with his ideal strain you can reach 5lbs maybe, if you only have 2k per plant you'd be closer to 2 or 3lbs ea best case scenario. Half that with a lesser strain apparently.

dj trichome · Dec 31, 2009

??first i have 6 thousands and want to set up a perfect DOUBLEDS
verical for 6 plants. how much more lite do i need?
would dimmable 1000s work for the ends?
the lites monted on 1/2 galv conduit so you can rush air in the room with out swinging the lites?
4000 btu per lite plus the ac and co2 is there any other btu s put off ,all ballast reseviors will be remote in a mechanical room.
thank you.

Widowmaker · Jan 2, 2010

MPB Layout of lights and plants

dj trichome said:
??first i have 6 thousands and want to set up a perfect DOUBLEDS
verical for 6 plants. how much more lite do i need?
would dimmable 1000s work for the ends?
the lites monted on 1/2 galv conduit so you can rush air in the room with out swinging the lites?
4000 btu per lite plus the ac and co2 is there any other btu s put off ,all ballast reseviors will be remote in a mechanical room.
thank you.

This is my understanding of how the layout should be.
View attachment 60372

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Widowmaker · Jan 2, 2010

How close do you let a 1000W HPS get to your plant>

Assuming your cooling it with a fan like DDs does and you’re raising the lamp up to increase the distance. How close do you let a vertical 1000W HPS lamp get to your plant?

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Widowmaker · Jan 4, 2010

Widowmaker said:
Assuming your cooling it with a fan like DDs does and you’re raising the lamp up to increase the distance. How close do you let a vertical 1000W HPS lamp get to your plant?:

To clarify, the lamp is a bare 1000W HPS Hortilux, no cool tube and a fan is on the floor blowing up on the bulb. Read somewhere that the lamps are moved up from veg to a higher position for full size monsters, maybe that’s wrong? Anyway I’m trying to duplicate the vertical lighting set up with Liquid Lumens and/or Fresca Sol water cooled fixtures. Have measured the bare Hortilux and the same lamp in the LL fixture @ 20” from the center (inside) of the lamp, 18 ½” from the surface of the lamp, the bare lamp is 54.7K Lux, with the LL fixture its 46.9K Lux. The bare lamp @ 13 1/2” from lamp center is 105K Lux. For reference a clear noon sun in So Cal this winter is 108K Lux. The problem with using the LL fixture in the center of 4 plants is the light beam appears to be narrowed by glass and water, making it harder to hit the plants evenly from top to bottom. So I’m looking for as much INFO as possible to put the pieces of this puzzle together. TIA

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OregonMeds · Jan 4, 2010

If I were you, before you get too into things I'd just go ask one of the guys that's just finished or currently finishing a vertical grow with a fresca like budleydoright on rollitup.
I'm sure he knows by now what the best height and distance are for those fixtures if it is any different from normal.

If my math is right you are saying it's a ~ 14% loss on the fresca best case scenario? Really?

Widowmaker · Jan 4, 2010

OregonMeds said:
If my math is right you are saying it's a ~ 14% loss on the fresca best case scenario? Really?

OM, Thanks for the guidance!
The fixture under test is the LL (Liquid Lumens). Its glass & water is thicker than the Fresca Sol, but the Sol has steel rods that will cast a shadow, so I was trying to avoid that.
~ 14% loss is what I come up with also; repeating the measurements may cause a change in that value but it should not be much. Using tap (220 ppm) water right now, RO water should be better. The meters response is centered at around 550nm (Yellow), so if the Blue and Red are not degraded it might not be that bad. WE will see, the proof is in the Budzz. Thanks again!!
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Dubsta · Jan 6, 2010

OK guys, I'm setting up my own MPB setup, the only difference is I wont be running co2 for sure and im using the 27gal black w/ yellow lid tubs instead of the ones DD's using. I got 2 rooms i can use. One room is 13ft x 13ft w/ a closet and then another 6x6 corner right outside the closet. I was gonna put up a piece of Pandafilm and a zipper to make the room sealed 13ftx13ft and put the rez in the closet and the space outside the door.

My other room is a perfect rectangle and is 10.8ft x 20.7ft. I'm still debating what room im gonna use as the flower room and the other for veg, i also got another room in my basement that just needs some drywall put up in a couple places to seal the room, this room has the chimney that i knocked a whole in a used a space 6in air cool flange to blow out all the hot air, i wanna make it bigger for a 8in flange but i dont want to make the chimney unstable and have it collapse or something, not sure if it would. Then 13x13ft room already has panda film on all the walls/roof and just need to put it on the floor. I'll be using cool tubes and having the intake come threw the window and blow the hot air out the chimney and during winter have it heat the house and put it into the heater vent. DoubleD how many plants could i fit in each room?? and how many lights should i use. Thanks for the help everyone its greatly appreciated.

Strains to be ran are my RM Sour Diesel 06 female, 1 RM SD F2 female that i made, and 1 Sannie's El Monstre F1 (Jackberry x Blue Kronic) female. The El Monstre is in a 27gal DWC similar to doubled's just its a standalone DWC not a RDWC so far. The water is being super aerated from a 4 Outlet High-Ouput Air pump. Just raised PPM's from 1000 to 1400ppm. I'm gonna start flowering my 2 females (El Monstre and RM SD F2) any day now. My El Monstre is growing into a nice bush i need to go grab material for the cages tomorrow.

Widowmaker · Jan 6, 2010

Dubsta said:
Then 13x13ft room already has panda film on all the walls/roof and just need to put it on the floor. I'll be using cool tubes and having the intake come threw the window and blow the hot air out the chimney and during winter have it heat the house and put it into the heater vent. DoubleD how many plants could i fit in each room?? and how many lights should i use. Thanks for the help everyone its greatly appreciated.
.

View attachment 60790
OR..
View attachment 60791
Maybe you could squeeze everything a little bit and make it fit……
or...
View attachment 60792
I quess it all depends on the size of your plants and how high your lights are.

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OregonMeds · Jan 6, 2010

I explained this already here but it may have been lost with the lost threads.
Here's how to add up things to plan your best layout: Again...

A 1k light is worth 1 point, 600 is .6, 400 is .4

x0x0
0x0x
You notice some plants have 2 lights next to them and some 3

Add it up like this:

x3x2
2x3x
total = 10 points with 4kw of light

x3x3x2
3x4x4x
x3x3x2

Total = 27 points with 9kw of lights

The same setup less optimal with the exact same number of lights:

x3x3x3x3x
2x3x3x3x2
Notice score is only 25, this will yield a little less.

Square layouts are always best, and always go for the max number of points. The more 4's the better, the more lights the better. Some layouts you will find adding just one light can add another 4 points when it changes to a square layout or etc. It's a pretty big jump sometimes so compare with that in mind.

Expected yield per watt is very low with small number of plants. You will notice 4kw gave 10 points a ratio of 2.5, 9kw gave 27 a ratio of 3. It's a larger return on electric per watt the larger you go and directly proportional to the ideal yield per watt if you wanted to extrapolate the math out from his ideal yield(as if we are to be so lucky). I am too lazy but I did work out the math on his 42lb grow and he got 1.5something grams per watt, which is very good even though grams per watt max isn't the goal with this necessarily, max grams period is. Or actually max pounds with the fewest plants.

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doubleds · Jan 6, 2010

Please remember guys that a 400 watt and a 600 watt does not equal a 1000 watt bulb. It is the intensity from the 1000 watt bulb that really jumps up your yield. You can do well (8 - 10 ounces) from 3 600;s around 1 plant but why would you waste your time. Running 3 x 1000 only costs a little more for electric but will give you lots more yield.

dds

Widowmaker · Jan 6, 2010

OM Thanks! Didn’t understand your evaluation system when it was posted before, the layouts I’ve been doing is an attempt to get maximum yield per plant. DDs had commented the plants that were surrounded by four 1KW bulbs got the maximum yield.

It stands to reason that smaller lamps with reflectors could be very effective on the perimeter of the grow area. I’ve measured a bare vertical 1KW Horti at 20” from the center of the lamp @ 55K Lux and with a econo reflector @ 124K Lux @ 20”. The 124K could have been a hot spot, but it looks like to get twice the Lux by redirecting the light is a reasonable assumption. So a smaller lamp with a reflector could get close to the light level you want but I don’t think it will going in the direction needed to cover the plant. The bare lamps seem to have the widest light spread and when you’re trying to cover a plant from head to toe with a short throw this is important. I’ll bet that the cool tubes with or w/o a reflector narrows the light spread, to what degree is uncertain in my mind. The water jacketed fixtures for example Liquid Lumens do narrow the light spread.

Spoke to Fresca Sol about using their Planetinum model that can be fitted with two 400W lamps. http://www.bestcoastgrowers.com/home/water-cooled-grow-lights.html
They have proto-typed an even longer model that can handle a 600W & 400W or 1KW & a smaller lamp. Maybe two 1KW lamps, not sure though. Stacking the lamps hopefully will solve the light spread problem with water cooled fixtures. They are planning to make these available soon.
Vertical lighting setup allows the whole plant to be illuminated and better than the Sun can do. Hope to come up with a system that is quite, by cutting down on the A/C needed and get away from running air ducts, up and down and all around. Not that it doesn't look macho; laying a big pipe is always mucho macho!! It’s just that a water cooled system seems more efficient, if all the angles can be worked out, it will be easier to move lights or the whole system to another location.

DoubleD thanks for the inspiration!!!
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Room spec questions

Room spec questions

lime6161

easypleasie

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Boots Sugarleaf

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kushpheen

flying lotus

bavimtwi

OregonMeds

dj trichome

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OregonMeds

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Dubsta

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Room spec questions

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lime6161

easypleasie

lime6161

Boots Sugarleaf

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kushpheen

flying lotus

bavimtwi

OregonMeds

dj trichome

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Widowmaker

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OregonMeds

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Dubsta

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