Root Pack Testing

HydroRocks · Feb 24, 2012

Very nice information there for sure! Keep up posted on your results.

We did a bunch of testing on the different rooting hormones and ratio's, but I seem to have lost most of the data. I wish I still had the pics to post as we had some really interesting results.

I do recall one of trays looking really bizarre, where the stem went into the root plug would swell up really large, it looked like a miniature oak tree stem I swear.

At some point we will be repeating the test I think.

With a little effort, a new grower can easily learn to clone with just water and maybe get fancy and sterilize the stem with a little H202.

On the other hand, rooting gels with hormones also work VERY well.

I think this one comes down to personal preference or budget maybe. All good information though!

GanjaGardener · Feb 24, 2012

HydroRocks said:
I do recall one of trays looking really bizarre, where the stem went into the root plug would swell up really large, it looked like a miniature oak tree stem I swear.

I've been studying up on the interrelationship of auxins and cytokinins and their effect on plant growth. High levels of auxins are primarily responsible for adventitous root growth, (ie rooting cuts) whereas low levels favor shoot growth. Cytokinins promote cell division and suppress root growth. By manipulating the levels and "force feeding" (ie pushing the auxins up the meristem) various results can be obtained. Studies have shown, (I have the pdf's) that equal amounts of auxins and cytokinins will promote undifferentiated callous tissue which is good for cellular cloning, but not such a good way to begin a run. Perhaps that's where your "tree stem" came from.

HydroRocks said:
With a little effort, a new grower can easily learn to clone with just water and maybe get fancy and sterilize the stem with a little H202.

I am going to read the thread in detail and apply. Consider me a learner who's trying to reel it in. I have many more questions than I do answers for this topic. I use trace amounts of H2O2 in my H2O holding tanks and for cleaning, but not as you are applying it. Will try w/ cuts today.

Is anyone using floating (styrofoam) trays w/ sponge plugs?

HydroRocks · Feb 24, 2012

Damn; knowing what you just posted makes me now REALLY wish I had the data still to see what ratio caused the oak stem effect and then compare to the info from the studies. I still get excited when the data matches!

Anyhow thanks for your input, and look forward to more from your findings/testing and FYI the fact that you have more questions than answers makes you an expert, not a novice.

If you have not read the cloning procedure that Dessert Squirrel posted that is a most excellent guide and I "think" he uses H202 and RO. He gets some really awesome roots.

Cheers!

HydroRocks · Feb 24, 2012

Forgot to mention also a cloning trick/aid you might already know is to soak the cuttings you take in RO water for 24 hours before you do anything else to them.

GanjaGardener · Feb 24, 2012

click80 said:
pretty clean fingernails too for a dirt farmer :O)

Clean fingernails? Oh, you mean these.

It's pictures like this that makes a guy wanna start seriously thinking about going H2O, lol

Great read HydroRocks. Immediately helpful w/ what I'll be doing in the garden today. Thanks again for doing this.

click80 · Feb 24, 2012

HydroRocks said:
Very nice information there for sure! Keep up posted on your results.

We did a bunch of testing on the different rooting hormones and ratio's, but I seem to have lost most of the data. I wish I still had the pics to post as we had some really interesting results.

I do recall one of trays looking really bizarre, where the stem went into the root plug would swell up really large, it looked like a miniature oak tree stem I swear.

At some point we will be repeating the test I think.

With a little effort, a new grower can easily learn to clone with just water and maybe get fancy and sterilize the stem with a little H202.

On the other hand, rooting gels with hormones also work VERY well.

I think this one comes down to personal preference or budget maybe. All good information though!

I recall a rooting study that showed a bell curve on results depending on differing ratios of IBA to NAA, but I also recall a study that showed minimal root help from NAA, NAA mainly helps after root/callous formation.

I also know from my recent side by sides that I got a lot of swelling with the Clonex, much more than from Vita Rooting compound and Rootech. Clonex has one of the higher IBA concentrations. As I mentioned though I am sure that just like other plants you reach a point where higher concentrations actually inhibit root formation. It might even be strain dependent.

Here are a couple of the pics of stem swelling from the Clonex...I also remember someone on here pointing out that with a swollen stem there is more area for root callous to form. You can see that the swelling extends up the stem even causing the node to swell abnormally large. (imo)

Alien · Feb 25, 2012

Excellent thread, Hydrorocks. Tons of useful information! Very detailed as well.

I really appreciate you taking the time to do this test and spread knowledge like this. All farmers can benefit in their gardens by using ACTs...great to see.

Cheers,
Alien

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liketosmoke · Feb 25, 2012

The best air pump for your five gallon bucket is the Ecoplus commercial 1 air pump,It is the one i use and has a air output of 1.75 CFM, Most aquarium pumps are not to strong i found this info on microbeorganics.com and have used both kinds of pumps and the ecco beats them all and will last forever. Best part they are only 40$
LTS

HumboldtDr · Feb 25, 2012

liketosmoke said:
The best air pump for your five gallon bucket is the Ecoplus commercial 1 air pump,It is the one i use and has a air output of 1.75 CFM, Most aquarium pumps are not to strong i found this info on microbeorganics.com and have used both kinds of pumps and the ecco beats them all and will last forever. Best part they are only 40$
LTS

I would have to agree w ya. I just bought the Eco 3. I thought, wtf, more oxy cant be a bad thing, right. Well, it was a bit too much, imo. I had a 1 already for other apps, and i just went back to that one. The 3 went to the rez.

Alien · Feb 25, 2012

This is the pump I use ^^^

Keeps 2 tanks boiling like mad and plenty of extra stones for tea, bubbling root cubes, etc.

I like a lot of oxygen rocking in the water.

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tomsawyer · Apr 13, 2012

HydroRocks said:
Ive never seen spores or "dormant inoculates" in it either. It would not make sense for this to be the bacteria product for several reasons. Number one, they make a bacteria product and it is not Roots Excel, I think it is called "Bacto Force". Number 2 is they would not likely want to try and import a bacteria product into the USA. And number 3 reason is House & Garden themselves (The USA Team) recommends the use of Great White for a bacteria product.

Bacto Force:

House & Garden Bacto-Force 4kG SOIL and COCO

Bacto-force is a very popular and essential product for the grower who want to use the same soil for more then one time. You can add this product also to new soils.

This ameliorative soil product, adds essential bacteria, enzymes and beneficial fungus, to your soil or coco so that the plants are fully protected against pathogen agents.
Bacto-Force ensures a better structure, a better mineral transport, ensures a better root system, an equilibrated growth and adds a supplement of lime to the soil.

Bacto-force contains a high density of micro-organisms.
It stimulate the SOIL life and provides an additional protection against soil diseases and stimulates growth.
DOSE: 1 Soup Spoon for a 5 Litres pot or 1 kg for 10m² of soil.

COMPOSITION: 4kg, Bacteria of compost, actinomycetae, co-enzymes, proteins, bacteria azotobacteria, lime, bone meal, blood meal, bentonite, 100% natural ingredients.

USE INSTRUCTION: Fill your tray or pot with soil, sprinkle it with Bacto-Force and cover the grains with 2-4 inches of soil, moisten the soil and start planting the next day.

Hmmm. What are your qualifications? Great White is mycorrhizae. Doesn't everyone know that? Roots Excel is anaerobic bacteria. Are you looking for that too? If you "brew" it, you will kill it. If its so easy to duplicate RE then why can't anyone do it? So many have tried and failed. The results speak for themselves. I have tried many other imitation products in an attempt to save money. Nothing compares. Yet.

click80 · Apr 13, 2012

What is there to Duplicate? I could do a ghetto chloroform reduction of Alfalfa Meal and just as good of results as RE. There is a product that a fine fellow told me about in hydrostores that is for fruiting that I found to have spectacular results on root enhancement. As far as RE is concerned, I am not saying it doesn't work, but PLENTY of pretty smart people have put it under a scope and found ZERO activity....Personally I don't care about what's in it. I care about bang for buck. RE does not meet my criteria in that regard.

btw...in a University of Arizona side by side evaluating products for their Hydro project in Antarctica RE didnot fare too well. When i get a chance I will post abstract.

Does anyone ever wonder why commercial companies never use these high priced additives yet they run, for example, 7000 gallon ebb and flow operations and have consistent highly productive results? I personally would think that is a prime indicator that most products aimed at the MMJ growers are not all what they seem. I also find the lack of labeling very problematic. If their ingredient is so special wouldn't they patent it? Or maybe that cannot be done for other reasons, such as the ingredient is common enough and not so very special...

click80 · Jun 22, 2013

HydroRocks said:
Forgot to mention also a cloning trick/aid you might already know is to soak the cuttings you take in RO water for 24 hours before you do anything else to them.

I have never looked back as far as soaking cuttings. I don't use plain RO as I get better results soaking with RO plus enough clonex to make it about 500ppm. I think soaking in plain RO might want to pull nutrients out. Just my opinion but it seems osmosis would make this pretty reasonable to assume. Actually I soak them in Caps bennies and clonex. Anyway, I rarely get less than 100% success since I read DS's guide. Very good place to start and then add in to fit your personal style.

Root Pack Testing

Root Pack Testing

HydroRocks

GanjaGardener

HydroRocks

HydroRocks

GanjaGardener

click80

Alien

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liketosmoke

HumboldtDr

Whats your ailment?

Alien

...

tomsawyer

click80

click80

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