Run off or no run off in Coco

Roxyheart420 · Aug 23, 2019

I'm running a drip system for the first time, in 3 gal fabric pots. I'm at the end of my 1st week in Veg. I use to hand water in soil, therefore I was use to watering each plant with ether a full liter, or 1/2 gal depending on where I was in the cycle. I would get a good 20% run off. Now, I'm in Coco perlite 70/30 blend. I just set up the system and I'm winging it on how much water to water daily. Some people say water until you get a run off. Is this in fact true? Because that would mean I would set my timer to water for about 7 minutes. Right now I have my timer set for 2:45 and that gives me 250mls per watering. No run off. Think about how little 250mls are. I also have had some pretty seasoned growers say you don't need run off. OK so let's go with the "I don't need run off" Soooo, what is the amount of water in milliliters do I water daily at one time? I watered last night by hand and gave them 1/2 liter and still no run off. So how much is enough? If someone says water until you get run off, can you tell me roughly how much that is? 1/2 liter, full liter? Do I water to get run off daily? If that's the case 1 liter a day seems like a lot for young veg. Thank you for any help. Also has anyone used a Netafim drip system before? If so I'm using the stakes that you put into the coco.

NinoGrows420 · Aug 24, 2019

Bro I tried to answer your question earlier in like 1 hour I have to water my gals I'm gonna record a video so u can see .... I think u need more perlite if you dont get run off you have the chance of salts building up on the roots I believe I read that somewhere my suggestion is repot and ad more perlite to your coco you will be fine and you will see how it should drain with some extra perlite quick alot faster than 2 and half minutes that's for sure!

Enforcer · Aug 24, 2019

Roxyheart420 said:
I'm running a drip system for the first time, in 3 gal fabric pots. I'm at the end of my 1st week in Veg. I use to hand water in soil, therefore I was use to watering each plant with ether a full liter, or 1/2 gal depending on where I was in the cycle. I would get a good 20% run off. Now, I'm in Coco perlite 70/30 blend. I just set up the system and I'm winging it on how much water to water daily. Some people say water until you get a run off. Is this in fact true? Because that would mean I would set my timer to water for about 7 minutes. Right now I have my timer set for 2:45 and that gives me 250mls per watering. No run off. Think about how little 250mls are. I also have had some pretty seasoned growers say you don't need run off. OK so let's go with the "I don't need run off" Soooo, what is the amount of water in milliliters do I water daily at one time? I watered last night by hand and gave them 1/2 liter and still no run off. So how much is enough? If someone says water until you get run off, can you tell me roughly how much that is? 1/2 liter, full liter? Do I water to get run off daily? If that's the case 1 liter a day seems like a lot for young veg. Thank you for any help. Also has anyone used a Netafim drip system before? If so I'm using the stakes that you put into the coco.

Yes, you absolutely must get run off at each watering. Go by the time it takes for that to happen, not the amount of water. You are correct. You’re preventing salt buildup in the medium.

koolhut · Aug 24, 2019

You should water for run off to take the salts out. I water a 5 gallon 100% coco with 6 liters 2 times a day and get like 15% run off.

MrBlobby85 · Sep 12, 2019

Enforcer said:
Yes, you absolutely must get run off at each watering. Go by the time it takes for that to happen, not the amount of water. You are correct. You’re preventing salt buildup in the medium.

How old should they be before you start giving enough for run off? mine are only 4 days old but if I give enough to get run off it’ll take me ages for the coco to dry out. aim using 100% coco but will be adding perlite into my next grow, if this one even survives as i definitely think I’ve overwatered them. first time grower by the way so I’m just getting the hang of things.

BCrocker · Sep 20, 2019

RUN OFF FTW

cemchris · Sep 20, 2019

If you arent getting to runnoff on a single feed you need to up the watering cycle to more then once a day. They will do better with multi waterings anyways in 3 gals. So you don't have to run 1 min cycle run something like 3 of them at 1:30 to 2 mins or whatever it works out to. Use def need runoff in coco.

Terpeneluv · Sep 20, 2019

I found that at least 20% of the container size of runoff works well if only watering once a day. If I'm off from work, I water twice a day at the very least. At the second watering in my days off, the TDS runoff is always best to what the input is.

For example:

Single watering per day, the ppm's are about 700 with about 900 ppm runoff.

When I get to do it more than once a day, 700 in and close to 700 out the second watering.

I'm not saying that's the right way, but it seems for me on a very limited personal schedule.

Unklefrosty · Apr 9, 2022

MrBlobby85 said:
How old should they be before you start giving enough for run off? mine are only 4 days old but if I give enough to get run off it’ll take me ages for the coco to dry out. aim using 100% coco but will be adding perlite into my next grow, if this one even survives as i definitely think I’ve overwatered them. first time grower by the way so I’m just getting the hang of things.

Hey Brother, Do not let your coco dry out. That will lead to a high EC in the rootzone and a whole plethora of issues along with. I run 13L pots and water 600ml 3 times a day in Veg with Nutrients. I get my run off each watering at around 5-10%. Keeps my rootzone in a nice EC value. If you can afford it a Pulse meter from BlueLab will tell you how wet and how much the EC of your coco is at the rootzone Otherwise measure what's coming out of the bottom of your pot and that will give you a less accurate but close reading. Just keep the coco from drying out and you will see your ladies explode with growth.

Gorillasteve · Nov 30, 2022

I have 3 week old plants in 80/20 coco perlite and if I water once a day until runoff the wilt from over watering.... or are they wiltting because I need to water more to get the oxygen in there? I'm confused because my last grow I didn't have this issue and was at 50/50 coco perlite but took too many times a day to water. They were ok the first 2 weeks. Nice roots too, I have them in clear solo cups inside a red one. All have alot drainage holes in them too so that's no issue. 5.8 ph 1200ec or 1.2ec depending on how your meter reads. Leaves are green and healthy for now, just dropping bad and it looks like overwater. First happened this morning when I got home, they were light but not dry. I watered and went to bed. Woke up and they looked worse.... I'll post pics in the morning when I get off work. It's really stressing me out. Bought a new scorpion Diablo and 5x5 for this grow and it's my worst start yet. My temps are 84 also simce I was told led don't put out infa red heat to warm my leafs like hid lighting. Could that be it?

Cashmeh · Nov 30, 2022

Enforcer said:
Yes, you absolutely must get run off at each watering. Go by the time it takes for that to happen, not the amount of water. You are correct. You’re preventing salt buildup in the medium.

So I was going to try this one day, but was confused as to why people want runoff. Ive only grown in active hydro systems, but I do know how to make some good feed. I usually keep my ppms low, Ive seen 300-400ppms at late flower, boost up to 500-600, let fall to 300, then boost again, with 0 deficiencies. I can also run it at 900-1200ppms and it all looks the same if were being honest. So when I hear its to stop salt buildup, what if someone were to just run lower ppms? I get its prolly not alot of waste in runoff, but to eliminate it would be nice. I would think the salt buildup is from unused nutrients. So the lower the feed intensity, the lower the saltbuildup. Idk much about it honestly, Just wondering if im on the right track. Dont really know if I have a question, more less just some observations that might need ajusted in the right direction. I want to start a coco/perlite cloth pot, I just dont want to setup a system that has to drain back to my res. Do those drip trays just evaporate whats in there? Can I do it without running it back to the tote if the feed is low?

benjones · Nov 30, 2022

koolhut said:
You should water for run off to take the salts out. I water a 5 gallon 100% coco with 6 liters 2 times a day and get like 15% run off.

damn they are thirsty

Gorillasteve · Nov 30, 2022

I use 3 Gallon airpots from airpot bros and last run I swear I only got runoff a few times during flower, only watering to saturation when needed and it was my best harvest yet. No salt build up and the plants looked amazing. I used gh Micro and Bloom only during flower and it worked. I only seem to have issues when they're small. Maybe it's the solo cups not having air all around like airpots.... going to drill tiny holes all over and see if that helps the youngsters. Lol.

RootsRuler · Nov 30, 2022

Cashmeh said:
So I was going to try this one day, but was confused as to why people want runoff. Ive only grown in active hydro systems, but I do know how to make some good feed. I usually keep my ppms low, Ive seen 300-400ppms at late flower, boost up to 500-600, let fall to 300, then boost again, with 0 deficiencies. I can also run it at 900-1200ppms and it all looks the same if were being honest. So when I hear its to stop salt buildup, what if someone were to just run lower ppms? I get its prolly not alot of waste in runoff, but to eliminate it would be nice. I would think the salt buildup is from unused nutrients. So the lower the feed intensity, the lower the saltbuildup. Idk much about it honestly, Just wondering if im on the right track. Dont really know if I have a question, more less just some observations that might need ajusted in the right direction. I want to start a coco/perlite cloth pot, I just dont want to setup a system that has to drain back to my res. Do those drip trays just evaporate whats in there? Can I do it without running it back to the tote if the feed is low?

I agree about the salts part. I like to let my girls dry back for a few days. I would imagine that in those few days as the roots are growing looking for water they are consuming what was watered in along with whatever food the soil is producing naturally. I have good outcomes when I do a high PPM feed but with a longer dryback period. I usually feed around 1000ppm - 1200ppm once they're out of seedlings and firmly in veg. I also do 20% runoffs. I grow in soil. My waste PPM's are usually the same coming out as going in.

tobh · Dec 1, 2022

so... this is a weird thing about coir.

it doesn't need runoff.

IF you have enough fertigation to keep the media adequately wet all the time to avoid salt build up.

this is the premise of crop steering.

minimal runoff while maintaining optimum water content and EC in the media at all times.

can you do it without advanced sensors and controllers? fuck no. can it be done in a clandestine way? sure. will yields and product suffer? absolutely.

10% run off by second fertigation at minimum.

this is why I went to wool. coco is great, but dirty like soil and way more demanding than hydro. can ghetto steer in wool without the bullshit of coir.

i grew in coir for almost seven years doing all kinds of methods with various nutrients (bottled, salts, organics) and always did well. even severely abused coir plants bounced back every time, albeit diminished yields. wool is more demanding in consistency but more forgiving for fuck ups and can be treated almost the same.

Dr.Dutch · Dec 1, 2022

tobh said:
it doesn't need runoff.

Coco still releases potassium, sulfur and sodium over time, with calcium and magnesium being locked up again.
This has been proven by studies.
That's why you need an open system with runoff for Coco

TinFoilHat · Dec 1, 2022

Dr.Dutch said:
Coco still releases potassium, sulfur and sodium over time, with calcium and magnesium being locked up again.
This has been proven by studies.
That's why you need an open system with runoff for Coco

I grow with coco in SIP buckets...no run off lol

Cashmeh · Dec 1, 2022

Dr.Dutch said:
Coco still releases potassium, sulfur and sodium over time, with calcium and magnesium being locked up again.
This has been proven by studies.
That's why you need an open system with runoff for Coco

From what im reading it can be done both ways? Can you elaborate on some of the specifics of the study and the reasoning?

2Bad · Dec 1, 2022

Gorillasteve said:
I have 3 week old plants in 80/20 coco perlite and if I water once a day until runoff the wilt from over watering.... or are they wiltting because I need to water more to get the oxygen in there? I'm confused because my last grow I didn't have this issue and was at 50/50 coco perlite but took too many times a day to water. They were ok the first 2 weeks. Nice roots too, I have them in clear solo cups inside a red one. All have alot drainage holes in them too so that's no issue. 5.8 ph 1200ec or 1.2ec depending on how your meter reads. Leaves are green and healthy for now, just dropping bad and it looks like overwater. First happened this morning when I got home, they were light but not dry. I watered and went to bed. Woke up and they looked worse.... I'll post pics in the morning when I get off work. It's really stressing me out. Bought a new scorpion Diablo and 5x5 for this grow and it's my worst start yet. My temps are 84 also simce I was told led don't put out infa red heat to warm my leafs like hid lighting. Could that be it?

Need to post pics.. I'm thinking it's light stress since you said you got a new light. Did they have this new light from the jump? How close and how many watts.

2Bad · Dec 1, 2022

TinFoilHat said:
I grow with coco in SIP buckets...no run off lol

Tin you need to share your grows mane got to see it to believe it.

Run off or no run off in Coco

Run off or no run off in Coco

Roxyheart420

NinoGrows420

Enforcer

koolhut

MrBlobby85

BCrocker

cemchris

Terpeneluv

Unklefrosty

Gorillasteve

Cashmeh

benjones

Gorillasteve

RootsRuler

tobh

Dr.Dutch

TinFoilHat

Cashmeh

2Bad

2Bad

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