Runoff Ph 5.1 and EC 3.1 what does this mean?

Bangarang · Apr 3, 2014

Coir said:
Are the numbers along the bottom line in ppm?
Also, your water looks to be pretty hard which can cause some issues.

Now that you mention it. I dont think so.
What problems can occur from hard water? I am going to do some reading on it now but...

Coir · Apr 3, 2014

That's good because if they were, something is way off with them.
Usually really hard water has issues with the pH being very difficult to control but the opposite direction of what you are seeing. Without getting a water test done it's hard to know the exact makeup of your water and if there might be any concerns from the TDS or pH levels out of the tap.

Natural · Apr 3, 2014

sorry to butt in Coir..excellent advice on the RA's
Bangarang...if you're tap is 360-380 PPM's I would consider that very high. Most likely your municipalities' water source is of high salinity content..which is always dealt with by them adding a PH buffer. Just because it's fit for humans..doesn't mean plants will flourish in it. Consider RO..or RO mixed with tap water.

Seamaiden · Apr 4, 2014

Bangarang said:
So i mixed 1tbsp to 5 gal of Dolomite Lime in my Res to tray and break it down and top feed it through my drip lines. It has been 10 days since i topped dressed with DL without any change in Ph. I read that you could add 1-2 tbsp per 5 gallons somewhere. Does this seem accurate?

It really depends on how much you want to shift pH. I think could safely add a bit more, but need to be careful since you have topdressed with it.

Bangarang · Apr 4, 2014

The DL is clumped up on the top and does not seem to be breaking down. I have not noticed a swing in Ph at all. In fact i still can not understand why the PH is plummeting. Could this be the result of me trying to eradicate RA's. I have no clue and am frustrated.
Sea you mentioned feeding organics to compensate. What would be a decent entry level schedule? Maybe a link.
Thanks

Coir · Apr 4, 2014

It seems to me that if your starting pH is 7.8 and you are still experiencing pH drop, there are some other issues at work. My well water is 6.4 and when mixed with food it drops to 5.8 which is what I feed with in coir and never have to add any pH adjusting chems. In my NFT systems, I experience a slight upward shift when the plants are large and need to add a bit of acid to the res.
If you were to do a really heavy flush with straight tap water, you should be able to raise the pH substantially. As soon as it looks normal again, I would go back to a regular feed to bring the runoff back to the correct ppm's and then check everything 24 hours later and see where it's at. If there is a huge drop in that time then there is definitely something strange going on in your root zone.

Seamaiden · Apr 5, 2014

Right now I'm conceding to Coir on this issue. One thing at a time.

Bangarang · Apr 7, 2014

Ok so tap was 8.2 with 380. I flushed until runoff was 5.8 and then fed with base nutes with a Ph of 6.2 and 930 ppm. It took a ton of water to make this happen. It is surprising because the leaves are a funky pale yellow but the plant is developing well. I am sending a bottle of my water to get tested tomorrow. But i am stumped. I know my formula well, but i have struggled with the new water source. I may not know how to break it down element to element but i used to be able to crush it. What could be causing the drop of Ph in my medium?
I plan on waiting at least two days to feed or at least till they dry out some.
Thanks

Coir · Apr 7, 2014

It will be interesting to see what the next runoff readings are. One thing I forgot to ask you is what brand/type of coir are you using? Some of them need a lot of pre rinsing to remove salt buildup from the aging process.
Yellow leaves can be from a lot of things so the first thing to take care of is the pH issue and then see what happens to the plant after that. Once things are back in balance, you should see new green growth fairly quick.

Bangarang · Apr 8, 2014

Coir said:
It will be interesting to see what the next runoff readings are. One thing I forgot to ask you is what brand/type of coir are you using? Some of them need a lot of pre rinsing to remove salt buildup from the aging process.
Yellow leaves can be from a lot of things so the first thing to take care of is the pH issue and then see what happens to the plant after that. Once things are back in balance, you should see new green growth fairly quick.

Canna and i pre charge with 5ml/g cal/mg.

Jalisco Kid · Apr 8, 2014

What was your reading when you did your last rinse with fresh coir,not that I believe it has to do with your pH being so low. High salts at the beginning could mess with the girls immune system. If you are paying to have your tap water analyzed have them check your run off too for bacteria. All my low pH problems in the past has been caused by run away blooms in the medium. One reason I stopped introducing so many varieties at once. JK

Bangarang · Apr 8, 2014

Jalisco Kid said:
What was your reading when you did your last rinse with fresh coir,not that I believe it has to do with your pH being so low. High salts at the beginning could mess with the girls immune system. If you are paying to have your tap water analyzed have them check your run off too for bacteria. All my low pH problems in the past has been caused by run away blooms in the medium. One reason I stopped introducing so many varieties at once. JK

I do not know what my runoff was at. I will check again in two weeks.
What do you mean "run away blooms"?
My veg Ph is in the range of 700 to 900 and then i never go above 1300-1400.

Coir · Apr 8, 2014

I think he was asking if you checked the runoff before planting into the fresh coir. The loose Canna stuff in the bag should be pre rinsed and buffered so it's much ready to charge and plant. The brick type of coir can be unwashed which will cause some huge problems if you don't rinse it really well before use. I had slabs come from Millennium that when first soaked to expand had a TDS reading of 3600ppm. It took a lot of irrigating and runoff to get them usable. The last bag of loose Canna I got was only about 100ppm above my tap water so a light rinse then a good soaking with my veg nutrient and then planted.

Bangarang · Apr 8, 2014

I was just reading another thread and it got me thinking. Is there any way that my use of Ph down could be causing a drop in my medium?

Coir · Apr 8, 2014

Bangarang said:
I was just reading another thread and it got me thinking. Is there any way that my use of Ph down could be causing a drop in my medium?

Are you using it at the time you mix nutrients to bring the pH to the required level? If so, what are you using and how much are you using per gallon of feed?

Bangarang · Apr 8, 2014

I use AN's and use it several hours before i feed. I think it ends up being .66 ml/gal.

Jalisco Kid · Apr 8, 2014

Sometimes one bacteria has a healthy production/survival rate and can overpopulate the bio herd. This can involve a severe shortage of sugars and N sometimes. Algaes just seem to suck the O out of everything.
I would back off a little on the feed,help your roots rebound with some bennies and/or same plug nutrient formula.
I am not a chemist so Take this with a grain of salt. If you are adding a liquid acid slowly I do not think there could be some type of reaction with another chemical in the medium that would drastically lower your pH. I could see some undissolved salts getting released once hit with water but this is a ongoing occurrence.
This short article can show you how some N can change pH but not as quick as you are experiencing. JK
Also never believe you have killed off all the RA's. Always check.

Bangarang · Apr 8, 2014

I always add my ph down first and i know the exact amount to add to the water to get it to 6.1 and then i add my nutes.
I have been taking my jewelers loop and inspecting section of the roots. If i am not mistaken the tiny little red dots are the enemy; and the fliers with the pointy tales and high wings are also. Any other pointers. I have read soo much because i need this to come to an end.

Coir · Apr 8, 2014

The only info I can find on AN pH down is that it's 75% phosphoric acid which is great since most places dilute the hell out of it. The problem arises though when you have to use so much that you are getting way to much P out of it and that causes problems especially with iron uptake. You mentioned that your plants are yellowing and it's likely from induced iron deficiency caused by excess P. With your water source, I would recommend finding some nitric acid to use instead of phosphoric. It will not only be much more stable but it will not cause the iron issues and it will convert some of the calcium in your water to CaNo3 which is usable by the plants.

Bangarang · Apr 9, 2014

Fed last night and this is what i cam up with.
.8 gallon air pot Nute solution 6.2ph 950ppm Run off 5.8 710ppm
1.2 g air pot Nute solution 6.2ph 950ppm Run off 5.4 710ppm

1.2 g air pot Nute solution 6.2ph 1400ppm Run off 5.1-5.4 750ppm
1.2 g air pot Nute solution 6.2ph 960ppm Run off 5.7 800ppm because i did not have to flush as hard. Also this one is younger and has droppy leaves and purple stems. The discoloration is just starting with the necrotic spots (Mag/Phos def). The ph is right on and the PPM both times have been spot on.

Once i completed a full round of feeding i took the existing Nutrient solutions and added H202 to the top two and Dutch Master Zone to the bottom 2. I gave all of them a nice little douche with the same messed up run off. End result i am unhappy.

Runoff Ph 5.1 and EC 3.1 what does this mean?

Runoff Ph 5.1 and EC 3.1 what does this mean?

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Runoff Ph 5.1 and EC 3.1 what does this mean?

Runoff Ph 5.1 and EC 3.1 what does this mean?

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