Roxyheart420
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Because I'm in soil it's hard to determine the PPM coming out. But it's always around 2500ppm
Now onto the problem. After reading numerous articles it looks like Nitrogen deficiency. Lower to mid leaves are turning yellow then brown and crisp, then falling off.
Thank you for your reply, and btw I did look at what you sent me. What I realized after a test is when you use Heavy16 you start with filtered water at 7.5 but after adding nutes it ph's by it's self. What I didn't before writting that tread was ph "after" adding nutes. Therefore it's not the PH. What I'm wondering is why a line like Heavy16 have a feeding schedule that would be way to high to feed your plants? Oh and by the way after I read your reply back then I did as you said completely backed off to where I was feeding 900ppm and my run off was still 2300ppm The problem is still there.I gave you your answers back in your "Ice Ice Baby" thread but you had other ideas so on it goes I guess? I don't mean that in a bad way, I tried to help you then and I'm trying now, same issues, you can go back and reread your thread if you wish I believe I've pointed out your main issues
Feed and flush feed and flush lol you know what too much flushing does to a plant's roots? Your problem is your newts, and/or how you're using them.
2500 PPM runoff is ridiculous, cut what your feeding by half and start properly pHing everything you give the plant and your problem will stop, good luck
What I'm wondering is why a line like Heavy16 have a feeding schedule that would be way too high to feed your plants?
As I was reading your reply I stopped at my "soil was depleted" because of over flushing. I only flushed once to see if there was a lockout or salt build up. Therefore I don't think my soil is depleted by only one flush.The soil is depleted , over flushing, never flush soil during veg, only flush is you suspect heavy nitrogen at end of flower, indications would be green leaves that won’t yellow out at final flowering.
So roots are dying. Why? It’s constantly fighting for nutrients that have been depleted via excessive moisture/flush.
Fix:
Re pot the plants, go to a larger pot add new soil cut fix farms with perlite to help drain , it’s a very clumpy soil. And restart the nutes. Start at 1/4 dose and gradually increase to full day by 5th feed it’s should be at full dose. Let it dry in between feed. And I mean dry, why? You add nutes, soil stores it. While wet less is available, as the root zone dries out, the feeder roots will keep seeking more nutes, this allows the plant to uptake the nutes and use it up. Dry means the once u go to lift the pot it’s light, but plant isn’t wilting. Then water , let that dry to half of dry, then feed 1/2 dose and let it dry again, rinse and repeat this formula. Only flush if there is a need but don’t arbitrarily flush. It’s counter intuitive and bad for the plant.
TLDR: version
Soil is dead, over flushed, over watered, roots in trouble. Repot. Don’t flush. Dry in between feeds/water.
Thank you for that reply because no one has ever told me that. Now that makes since to me. OK so when your plants color is lime green what does that indicate?FWIW: Many products are like that. It's customary to advise people to feed half what the label/schedule says, unless someone's used the product and knows what works. It's more the norm than the exception, from what I've seen. I don't know why they do that. People say it's sell more product. But, it leads to bad experiences which you'd think would cause fewer sales, bad reputations, etc.
It appears to me that 250-400 ppm nutrient strength (not counting water ppms) is the typical range for soil. Hydro & soilless are typically twice as strong. (And then, if the soil already has nutrients you'd use less.).
Now that makes since to me. OK so when your plants color is lime green what does that indicate?
off subject,if you had a fifty acre corn field,worked all winter testing and getting your soil nutes right on cue,you plant corn,they comeup fast and strong,then about 2ft tall rain sets in and rains for several days to weeks,were does all those nutrients go? answer down and into water table right?how can you flush soil,i hear it all the time and most times i just scroll right past the thread,look you cannot flush soil period period,it cannot happen,even when you water to the 20%runoff again folks say,it flushes every thing from the pot not even your bennies are there you washed them away,taking ppm reading from runoff how?its soil it buffer the ph and ppm itself,okay off that horse take it and run cause all the folks telling you to flush has fucked your plant up,those plant could be transplanted i would because im sure you have compacted soil doing this every other week,so that is my opinion and just mine,you tried there way now try mine,transplant them into happy frog or ocean,yes they might stress but thing is in compacted soil whats it gonna hurt the roots cant exchange because of lack of air if you dig,good side is that your not in 150 gal pots and done as you have,that be drastic disaster,think im full shit,take just one plant and do as recommended and see what it gonna hurtI am hoping an advanced grower can help me with my problem. I'm getting really bad feed back from other people. Here is the line up:
Strain: Purple Punch
Stage: first week of flower/ this is not a new problem. Problem all through veg
Medium: Happy Frog
Nutrients: Heavy16 line /I use the whole line and follow the feeding schedule online
I do not over water, I use a meter and wait until they are ready
I flush about every 2 weeks
I use Sea Green 1ml per gal. with every feeding
I use Heavy16 Foliar twice a week with 1ml of roots and 1ml fire added
I don't have to adjust my ph because the Heavy16 line does it for you. So going in is 6.5ph Coming out is 5.5ph
Because I'm in soil it's hard to determine the PPM coming out. But it's always around 2500ppm
Now onto the problem. After reading numerous articles it looks like Nitrogen deficiency. Lower to mid leaves are turning yellow then brown and crisp, then falling off.
But how is this possible if I'm using the line exactly as directed?
A few people I have talked to say to Flush. That is always there go to answer on everything. Well, I've done that and it has not cleared up. I have tried lowering nutrients, nope, that didn't work. Someone suggested watering more often, nope, that didn't work.
Nitrogen deficiency looks like the logical answer from all the pictures and articles. Lower to mid leaves turning yellow, then crispy, then falling off. Tops are nice and green (lime green) not dark. They say it steals nitrogen from the bottom for the top, but eventually working its way to the top.
So if this seems to be the problem, how do I fix it? To top it all off one article said if you are using a nutrient line and feeding to schedule it's probably NOT a Nitrogen deficiency. So now I am at a loss.
Thank you so much for any feed back.
PS. I hate to say this but my gut tells me I got some bad clones from the start. The clones looked weak. Genetics could be bad. I could be wrong.
Attaching photos.
One last thing. The website said it adjusts to 5.5 - 6.5 because it can be used for soil and soiless media. Say for example, it’s self adjusting itself to 5.5, the roots won’t be able to uptake the nutrients. I don’t think that line has a magical ingredient that will change your plants biologically to miraculously uptake all its nutrients at a 5.5ph in soil. Now soiless media would be fine at 5.5-5.9 but the pH at the root zone needs to be 6.0-6.8 in soil.
I'm now under HPS 1000wts and they only have 8 weeks under them. I switched them out on the last run. I use a tall boy filter for my water. When I put the ppm meter in water w/o nutes it's 000 ppms. They aren't crowed enough to not get enough light. It's just weird.I'd have to see a specific example. Could be new growth. Could be Mg or N def. Zinc or iron def.
What did you think about my lighting questions? Are you under T5 (or T5HO)? Or, under HPS? How many hours do those bulbs have on them?
If they've suffered lumen deprecation (many hours of use), that could explain some things. Plants won't use the nutrients in the soil without adequate light (in terms of PAR, not what you see with your eyes). That could contribute to nutrient buildup even though you think you're feeding a sane amount. The lower leaves would suffer. Especially with fluorescent.
But, I don't think that explains why some clones died. Unless they were crowded around the periphery and not getting enough light.
It all sounds strange. I agree with you that soil depletion doesn't sound right when the runoff is 2500ppm. Unless the ppms are some kind of garbage (sulfates and sodium?). Did you mention what the ppm is of your tap water? Mine is 600-800. If I make my nutrient solution with that I could have the kind of problem you're having. The garbage ppms would interfere with the good ppms. The runoff would be high ppm, even though it's not useful salts.
I’ve had trouble with happy frog, I find that it ends up rotting the root zone, it’s too dense and I’ve learned to cut it with basement mix, coco-perlite and I’ve had no issues since. Maybe that’s the issue combined with the higher ppm values coming back? Hard to say . But gut tells me from what I see that it’s related to moisture and root damage. Leaves don’t fall off that way, they yellow gradually and brown out but don’t turn and wilt like your pics show. It’s why I suspected depletion, cause that’s the first thing a plant does , saves the tops and sacrifice the lower limbs. But damage to root zone will also exhibit similar issues. But since you have repotted. Don’t water to flush or run off, cut nutes wayyyy back and let the plant tell ya when to feed. I grow 100’s k per cycle and learned quickly that the plant will let ya know when she is hungry.It's puzzling why he had a good grow, followed by two bad ones. How would his ph be good once, and then change?
From what I can tell, the only thing that changed was Happy Frog the first time, Ocean Forest the next two times. Maybe the soil's ph is off. Something about those OF bags.
I agree with you that 2500ppm is high, and suggests overfeeding. But, the plants don't look burned or in lockout. They look underfed, not the kind of overfed deficiency you'd expect.
When I grew the first time, and didn't understand the significance of my 600-800ppm tap water, I had results like this. It was like the garbage ppms interfered with the roots accessing the good ppms. I didn't know to check runoff ppms then. But, I imagine they would have been high, even though the ppms weren't nutrients (didn't burn). The plants didn't thrive, but didn't look too bad. The sort of thing when people keep the soil too wet.
From my understanding, FFOF is loaded with more amendments than happy frog. Organic matter (amendments) in your soil will lower the pH of the soil. So he’s been trying to fix the issue of probably too low pH (acidic) at the root zone by flushing and messing around with other variables which just caused more root issues.It's puzzling why he had a good grow, followed by two bad ones. How would his ph be good once, and then change?
From what I can tell, the only thing that changed was Happy Frog the first time, Ocean Forest the next two times. Maybe the soil's ph is off. Something about those OF bags.
I agree with you that 2500ppm is high, and suggests overfeeding. But, the plants don't look burned or in lockout. They look underfed, not the kind of overfed deficiency you'd expect.
When I grew the first time, and didn't understand the significance of my 600-800ppm tap water, I had results like this. It was like the garbage ppms interfered with the roots accessing the good ppms. I didn't know to check runoff ppms then. But, I imagine they would have been high, even though the ppms weren't nutrients (didn't burn). The plants didn't thrive, but didn't look too bad. The sort of thing when people keep the soil too wet.
Thank you for that reply because no one has ever told me that. Now that makes since to me. OK so when your plants color is lime green what does that indicate?
Your perlite suggests over-watering and or keeping it too wet
adjust pH of everything going in to 6.5
Stop feeding; Fox Farm ocean Forest has plenty of newts for plants that size for 4 - 6 weeks and you're feeding much too strong a ppm anyway, try half what the label says when you eventually start feeding again
Follow these above steps & watch the new growth, it should get better
Eventually start to feed at half strength
and stop Flushing
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