So what happens if coco dries out?

Gurtgurt · Sep 14, 2022

I read in the sticky posts that you should never let coco dry out. I was busy for a couple days and one of my plants had wilted leaves i.e. in need of water.

What happens if coco dries out? How do I recover?

Thank you.
For reference, I am in coco-perlite with 20% worm castings and organic dry amendments.

2_More_Calmags · Sep 15, 2022

No big deal in veg. Frequency will be your enemy during flowering. Once or twice won't break you. End of flower isn't as bad as flip. You can cut corners after you've experimented. It's worth knowing your medium, so go nuts.

stanknkatz · Sep 15, 2022

Gurtgurt said:
I read in the sticky posts that you should never let coco dry out. I was busy for a couple days and one of my plants had wilted leaves i.e. in need of water.

What happens if coco dries out? How do I recover?

Thank you.
For reference, I am in coco-perlite with 20% worm castings and organic dry amendments.

You need to treat that more like soil, not coco, and have regular wet dry cycles.

I see guys add stuff to their coco all the time, and I have no idea why y'all do it. The whole idea of coco is to treat it like hydro and fertigate your plants, i.e. feed them nutrients when you water.
Good luck! Pretty much every grow I've seen with organic amended coco runs into problems.

Moe.Red · Sep 15, 2022

stanknkatz said:
You need to treat that more like soil, not coco, and have regular wet dry cycles.

I see guys add stuff to their coco all the time, and I have no idea why y'all do it. The whole idea of coco is to treat it like hydro and fertigate your plants, i.e. feed them nutrients when you water.
Good luck! Pretty much every grow I've seen with organic amended coco runs into problems.

Yeah, I tend to agree here, pick a grow style and do that one right.

Gurtgurt · Sep 16, 2022

Okay then.

Bet I can't find umpteen posts saying that coco's porosity makes it an ideal organic medium. But I digress.

Moe.Red said:
Yeah, I tend to agree here, pick a grow style and do that one right.

My grow style is retro futuristic funk and I do it up riiiiiight.

N1ghtL1ght · Sep 16, 2022

.... the plant runs out of water even when the coco is still heavy. It binds alof of "deadwater" to quill its fibers

2_More_Calmags · Sep 16, 2022

N1ghtL1ght said:
.... the plant runs out of water even when the coco is still heavy. It binds alof of "deadwater" to quill its fibers

Are you saying it uptakes the nutrients before the water is gone? Trying to make sense out of this

N1ghtL1ght · Sep 16, 2022

2_More_Calmags said:
Are you saying it uptakes the nutrients before the water is gone?

Not at all.

I'm refering to the "water matrix potential" that has it defined that a plant's root can only drink free soil-adhesive water (also adhesive in its pores or its capillars).
Some material however bind a certain amount of water (e.g. fibers that quill) and that water cannot be gained by the plant. It's considered dead-water.
The cocofiber needs way more water for itself than e.g. peat. Thus, you gotta water coco much sooner.

Aqua Man · Sep 16, 2022

In coco that happens at about 35%-40% saturation… the coco may still be damp but the roots cannot pull the water from the media.

stanknkatz · Sep 16, 2022

N1ghtL1ght said:
Not at all.

I'm refering to the "water matrix potential" that has it defined that a plant's root can only drink free soil-adhesive water (also adhesive in its pores or its capillars).
Some material however bind a certain amount of water (e.g. fibers that quill) and that water cannot be gained by the plant. It's considered dead-water.
The cocofiber needs way more water for itself than e.g. peat. Thus, you gotta water coco much so

It is my understanding that when you start adding organic additives such as earthworm castings and other organic additives, that the media then does retain water longer, which is why you need more of a wet/dry cycle.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, adding those organic ingredients to coco is essentially starting the compost cycle on your coco and breaking it down into soil.
Not trying to be argumentative or god forbid claim to be an expert on the subject, and will defer to more experienced minds.

edited for typos. Damn stoned typist.

Aqua Man · Sep 16, 2022

stanknkatz said:
It is my understanding that when you start adding organic additives such as earthworm castings and other organic additives, that the media then does retain water longer, which is why you need more of a wet/dry cycle.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, adding those organic ingredients to coco is essentially starting the compost cycle on your coco and breaking it down into soil.
Not trying to be argumentative or god forbid claim to be an expert on the subject, and will defer to more experienced minds.

edited for typos. Damn stoned typist.

Have you seen my posts lol.

you are correct in your thinking… personally id go peat for that route. Coco doesnt have the CEC well suited to organics imo. When going coco i think its best to stay coco

stanknkatz · Sep 16, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Have you seen my posts lol.

you are correct in your thinking… personally id go peat for that route. Coco doesnt have the CEC well suited to organics imo. When going coco i think its best to stay coco

I admit, I do spend a lot of time schooling myself reading your threads. The wet/dry cycle was definitely picked up from you. The organic additives starting to compost the coco was something I think I picked up from Texas Kid or one of the local TX crew years ago when I first switched to coco (2005-ish?). Which is part of why I never tried it. The other part is because, like I said, almost, ALMOST, every grow I've seen doing it runs into trouble along the way. There have been exceptions. Me? I have enough problems just running straight coco. It was easier when I could do ebb and flo, but I just can't handle the res changes anymore. Damn COPD and other issues now kicking my azz.

Aqua Man · Sep 16, 2022

stanknkatz said:
I admit, I do spend a lot of time schooling myself reading your threads. The wet/dry cycle was definitely picked up from you. The organic additives starting to compost the coco was something I think I picked up from Texas Kid or one of the local TX crew years ago when I first switched to coco (2005-ish?). Which is part of why I never tried it. The other part is because, like I said, almost, ALMOST, every grow I've seen doing it runs into trouble along the way. There have been exceptions. Me? I have enough problems just running straight coco. It was easier when I could do ebb and flo, but I just can't handle the res changes anymore. Damn COPD and other issues now kicking my azz.

I have early stages also… i use pumps and automation now because well tbh im lazy.

aeroponics is much more efficient maybe up your ally. check out @Moe.Red fogponic grow as this is also a system we are working on that should be very efficient and effective once the bugs gets worked out if there are any.

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Yeah im PUMPED… see how i spelt that this time… lol. Thisbis going to be far more exciting that the usual hydro grows. Man, I honestly thought you were going for STOKED!! Ahahaha. I see pumped now in pukoed if I squint a little. For those not inside the...

www.thcfarmer.com

stanknkatz · Sep 16, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Have you seen my posts lol.

you are correct in your thinking… personally id go peat for that route. Coco doesnt have the CEC well suited to organics imo. When going coco i think its best to stay coco

I admit, I do spend a lot of time schooling myself reading your threads. The wet/dry cycle was definitely picked up from you. The organic additives starting to compost the coco was something I think I picked up from Texas Kid or one of the local TX crew years ago when I first switched to coco (2005-ish?). Which is part of why I never tried it. The other part is because, like I said, almost, ALMOST, every grow I've seen doing it runs into trouble along the way. There have been exceptions. Me? I have enough problems just running straight coco. It was easier when I could do ebb and flo, but I just can't handle the res changes anymore. Damn COPD and other issues now kicking my azz.

Aqua Man said:
I have early stages also… i use pumps and automation now because well tbh im lazy.

aeroponics is much more efficient maybe up your ally. check out @Moe.Red fogponic grow as this is also a system we are working on that should be very efficient and effective once the bugs gets worked out if there are any.

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Yeah im PUMPED… see how i spelt that this time… lol. Thisbis going to be far more exciting that the usual hydro grows. Man, I honestly thought you were going for STOKED!! Ahahaha. I see pumped now in pukoed if I squint a little. For those not inside the...

www.thcfarmer.com

Brother, I've been watching that one too. Kind of feel like I'm emotionally invested in it lol.

Moe.Red · Sep 16, 2022

stanknkatz said:
I admit, I do spend a lot of time schooling myself reading your threads. The wet/dry cycle was definitely picked up from you. The organic additives starting to compost the coco was something I think I picked up from Texas Kid or one of the local TX crew years ago when I first switched to coco (2005-ish?). Which is part of why I never tried it. The other part is because, like I said, almost, ALMOST, every grow I've seen doing it runs into trouble along the way. There have been exceptions. Me? I have enough problems just running straight coco. It was easier when I could do ebb and flo, but I just can't handle the res changes anymore. Damn COPD and other issues now kicking my azz.

Brother, I've been watching that one too. Kind of feel like I'm emotionally invested in it lol.

Me too. But I'll tell you don't do fog without a chiller or Aqua's thingy. It gets hot in the res from the ultrasonics. Still working on that

Good news is I only ever lift 3" net pots with coco in them. Everything else comes in or goes out a pipe and I don't touch it. I can't imagine a less physical way to do it. I even have a mechanics chair to roll around on and do maintenance. Wow am I lazy, I don't even have COPD.

N1ghtL1ght · Sep 16, 2022

stanknkatz said:
It is my understanding that when you start adding organic additives such as earthworm castings and other organic additives, that the media then does retain water longer, which is why you need more of a wet/dry cycle.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, adding those organic ingredients to coco is essentially starting the compost cycle on your coco and breaking it down into soil.

what I do here when I have a new mix I'll allow the pot to run out of water to behold, when the lower branches start getting droopy, and then feel the pot-weight. To get a max border for this where you optimally never reach into. So you gotta a half day or a day to arrive at the moment before and then water.

Gurtgurt · Sep 18, 2022

Thanks everyone for your replies.

This is just my first experiment in coco, I've never used it before.

For my next run I will have a lot more space and will probably go back to soil.

Even then I have no experience with peat or promix, I just buy overly expensive topsoil.

MasterCookie · Oct 23, 2022

Gurtgurt said:
I read in the sticky posts that you should never let coco dry out. I was busy for a couple days and one of my plants had wilted leaves i.e. in need of water.

What happens if coco dries out? How do I recover?

Thank you.
For reference, I am in coco-perlite with 20% worm castings and organic dry amendments.

I got similar mix. I'm fully organic grower outdoor as well. Even when you put organic amendments you can still treat it as cocopeat one you have enough aeration amendments (like perlite) and you planted you plants in a pot with adequate height like 12-16". By doing so the top layer usually stays around 70 to 80% saturation even right after watering. On watering water atleast 1 per day or every other day to ensure your media remains within ph because in organic soil the microbes also respire and released carbon dioxide gas that binds to calcium to create calcium carbonate that creeps you pH up over 7.5 in a few days.. at that point your plants will not be happy. Soo water one per day with solution buffered to 6...till 10% runoff to ensure ph stability in your media. I also feed with every watering. It's easy when you got 20000 gal of organic nutrients lying around.

MasterCookie · Oct 23, 2022

And coco organic amendments has ammonia and coco is carbon.. it breaks down rapidly and water hold capacity increases.. but not by much.. it really looses air holding capacity. But by that time it reaches this point.. you would have done harvested. If you use molasses and compost teas.. that will drastically accelerate the decomposition of the coco.. hence I had said before. Organic grower will benefit more for inorganic feeds than organic feeds.. due to no additional organics being added to your media to lock nutrients into microbial biomass.

So what happens if coco dries out?

So what happens if coco dries out?

Gurtgurt

2_More_Calmags

stanknkatz

Moe.Red

Gurtgurt

N1ghtL1ght

2_More_Calmags

N1ghtL1ght

Aqua Man

stanknkatz

Aqua Man

stanknkatz

Aqua Man

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

stanknkatz

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Moe.Red

N1ghtL1ght

Gurtgurt

MasterCookie

MasterCookie

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