Thanks, Solarz. I've been using soil amendments for about 6 months now; was a straight hydro farmer for the most part, if the grow was indoors. I understand that dolomite buffers the soil, but I've always checked the runoff pH anyhow. If I can skip this step it'll save lots of time on watering days. Another question, since we're on the topic: I can get bb-sized dolomite everywhere around here, but I can't find the flour anywhere lately. I'm sure this makes a big difference in soil buffering.

The bb sized dolomite takes months-years to break down in your soil, so it is pretty useless in container gardening. If thats all you can find, just take a rolling pin and crush it down. When I lived back in NY thats all I could find, so thats what I had to do. It was a pain in the ass but it saved many crops. But out here I can get a 50lb bag of powdered dolomite lime for $8...

solarz said:

fuck getting ph testers. This actually is NOT good info. PH doesn't mean a damn thing when you are using organics correctly. See, Altitude farmer, you corrected ol dude with incorrect/insufficient information.

For those wondering about ph...the whole reason that ph isn't an issue is because of the dolomite lime (agriculture, NOT hydrated). It is a natural buffer, hence allowing the ph to be in any range, and automatically gets buffered to the correct point. This is why it is so crucial when using chemical ferts to adjust ph, because there are no ph buffers included, except the ph up/down you add to your nute solution.

So PLEASE don't waste your money on PH testers, or RO machines for that matter...just use that extra coin to buy a bag of lime, ewc, or a good book on maintaining organic environments.

solarz

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so do most organic soils and ferts already have the dolimite in them or does it need to be added? obviously if building your own soil you would need to, but let say for instance does a bag of bio-bizz or foxfarm already have it?

fox farm and roots organics and many other companys do already put dolomite lime in their soils, but if mixing in other things with your soil, you'll need to put your own in on top of that. But straight outta the bag, its already ph tested.

Solarz, your comments are false. RO machines you don;t really need, put a good ph tester can come in a lot of handy, even if you are using organics. If you added the wrong amount of lime (ie. to much lime) it will send your ph through the roof if the water you are putting in is phed at around 8.5 or higher, which most city tap water is above 7. Luckliy mine is 7.1, so not to shabby. You need to know the acidity/alkalinity of the nutrients that you are putting in your soil so you don't fuck it up. Straight blood meal will make your ph DIVE if watered in. You need to mix the blood meal with some kelp or bone meal to balance the ph out. One is SUPER aciditic, the other super alkeline. The same when making your teas. Just because your growing organic doesn't mean that ph isn't an issue. I've had many problems go wrong because ph being waaaay off wack in total living organics. Whenever their is a problem the first thing you should check is your ph, first and foremost. If that is off, then that will lead to a lot more problems.
Here are some pics of a big bang that I grew out. This was only about 3 weeks into flowering when she started showing heavy signs of a manganese def. I wasn't checking ph at all during the entire grow, and it was all an organic grow with a semi-super soil and heavy compost teas. I didn't check the ph once during the entire grow, and when she started to look like THIS, I checked it. It was 8.5! When I started flushing with 5.5 ph water to get it back down, the green actually started to come back. The only way that you don't have to check your ph all the time is if you know your water source ph is in check and you know that you put equalizing things in your soil to balance it.

the way i see it is that there really is no harm in keeping track of your PH. it's not as hard as thought it would be, but then again i rarely have to adjust anything. it just seems like good practice and i'd rather know for sure that my PH is right on than just assume. i've grown for 5 years very sucessfully without testing, but i'm gonna start from now on.

ph is important in all gardening situations . Amendments will play a factor in soil ph microorganisms can change the ph in the root zone as well as the plant it self has different root zone ph at night than in the day. Knowing the roles of each amendment is important even when using buffers like lime and crushed shells , plants will usually adapt to most non extreme environments and keep growing but with reduced potenial

What the ?

solarz said:

fuck getting ph testers. This actually is NOT good info. PH doesn't mean a damn thing when you are using organics correctly. See, Altitude farmer, you corrected ol dude with incorrect/insufficient information.

For those wondering about ph...the whole reason that ph isn't an issue is because of the dolomite lime (agriculture, NOT hydrated). It is a natural buffer, hence allowing the ph to be in any range, and automatically gets buffered to the correct point. This is why it is so crucial when using chemical ferts to adjust ph, because there are no ph buffers included, except the ph up/down you add to your nute solution.

So PLEASE don't waste your money on PH testers, or RO machines for that matter...just use that extra coin to buy a bag of lime, ewc, or a good book on maintaining organic environments.

solarz

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Talking about feeding someone some bs. You may be an expert organic guy but i can tell you this, when i didn't check ph my shit always looked good but didn't produce worth a shit. No R/O unit? I guess you dont have any chloramine or chlorine in your water? Stream fed i take it. I've lost a whole crop due to this, again they looked killer till the last month when the nugs stop filling out.

PH up for one grow $75
R/O unit $250
Ph pen $100

Fucked up crop -$15,000 to 18,000

You do the math bro. Dont be cheap. Do things the safe way until you damn well know what youre doing.

what if you boil or let your tap water sit out? doesn't the chlorine evaporate? now that you say that ever since i stopped buying water my crops have been hurting, i always thought it was other problems, but everytime i correct it the same shit keeps happening. is the tap water pretty much garbage then?

Fg, boiling your water will tell you what kind of hardness you have (temporary versus permanent). Believe it or not, depending on what's in it, you can literally boil your water softer. Chlorine will dissipate naturally within 24 hours, chloramine will need something to break the chemical bond.

RO units waste a hell of a lot of water (I've never seen one reviewed that's not around 2:1), for on-demand watering I use a Mr. Clean Autodry ion-exchange resin cartridge. One thing to remember about it is that because it's only for washing cars it was developed to remove minerals, but not microbes and the like that an RO unit would filter. I only ever need that for my indoor runs, never needed it OD. In fact, everything about running OD is more forgiving, amazingly so.

foolsgold said:

i was just wondering what some of you guys use to amend your soil. i've tried just about everything from mushroom compost to spent grain ( from homebrewing). the spent grain worked pretty well, but i found if used to much the nats would show up like crazy. the grains are filled with sugar, enzymes, and all typre of good stuff. whats your take on this?

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Month old, but caught my attention because last year's OD got my husband's expired malted barley extract. Worked great, though it's STICKY, especially compared to molasses. In any event, it worked very well for me. I ended up just putting a dollop under each dripper, by the next morning it had been watered in. I don't know how cost-effective it is to do this, it was a quart that came from a brew kit my husband never cooked up.

foolsgold said:

what your thoughts on using the spent grains for composting?

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Use them! The sugars will do two things--feed microbes and feed the plants. Neither is a bad thing, as long as you're prepared for what happens when the microbes really kick in.

radical farmer said:

The bb sized dolomite takes months-years to break down in your soil, so it is pretty useless in container gardening. If thats all you can find, just take a rolling pin and crush it down. When I lived back in NY thats all I could find, so thats what I had to do. It was a pain in the ass but it saved many crops. But out here I can get a 50lb bag of powdered dolomite lime for $8...

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The "bb" dolomitic lime is usually prilled dolomitic lime. That means that it's been made into little balls (pelletized) with clay that make it easier to use and it won't blow away.

As for how long it takes to break down, that's as much a function of the soil and watering conditions (relative to pH) as anything else. Do an experiment--take some RO or distilled water, test it for hardness and pH. Then drop in some prilled dolomitic lime, agitate for several minutes. Test again. What are you getting? If it's anything like what I got, I was able to demonstrate that the more acid the conditions the more quickly the lime is freed up into the water column. Hasn't worked much differently in soil for me, but I go super easy on the lime because my water is very, very hard out of the tap (well).


No one here has mentioned using alfalfa as a natural source of triacontanol, and I'd like to offer that one up as one of my tips for getting SUPER vegetative growth. I make a tea, a 'casual' tea with the sweepings from our local feed store. A handful of the sweepings go into a liter or so of warm water, steep for an hour and either fed directly or put into whatever concoction I have going at the time.

thats some great info. i've been mixing in some spent grains into a my veg garden and everything is loving it. i bet the malt exract is perfect, but like you said it's not very cost effective. i'm gonna try to give some of my plants some unfermented wort and see how they react. maybe even try some fermented beer, i bet the co2 would do wonders for the roots. would brewers yeast be beneficial or harmful to soil? or would it be pretty much ineffective?

Has anyone used horsetail (shavegrass) as an amendment?
I plan on adding some to my SS mix and see how it goes.
I think it would be a great alternative to the liquid sand I see being sold.
The trace potassium and maganese would be beneficial as well.
I just haven't quite figured out the ratio to add, I think for 6 cuft of soil
I probably will only need from half a pound to as little as a cup.

always start with less and go from there. i try to come up with a dosage and then i cut that in half for the first try.

A very nice post :) Man in my next grow i will not use any chems too!I heard that the absolutly organic grow have the best taste of all...is it true?im just beginning my indoor grow expirience now and i want to know whats the best way to get full flavour weed.I hope i dont overfert my current grow cuz its nice.

I know a fellow who uses almost exclusively as his supplements plants that he can grow and find when he's afield. One he mentions frequently is comfrey. I wouldn't be surprised if he knows something about shavegrass, but off the top of my head it's not ringing a bell.

foolsgold said:

thats some great info. i've been mixing in some spent grains into a my veg garden and everything is loving it. i bet the malt exract is perfect, but like you said it's not very cost effective. i'm gonna try to give some of my plants some unfermented wort and see how they react. maybe even try some fermented beer, i bet the co2 would do wonders for the roots. would brewers yeast be beneficial or harmful to soil? or would it be pretty much ineffective?

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If you have to use a lot of the malt extract, no, I don't think it's cost-effective. I've made a homemade version of Sweet, but I don't know how close it is because of what I used. (Panela + Epsom salts) I've been using molasses since I started--easy to find and easy to use and damn if I can't help licking the edge of the jar every time.

If the wort is unfermented then it's probably very high in sugars, and if it's high in simple sugars then you'll be feeding both microbes and your girls with it. Just go easy if it's very sweet and dilute it.

No CO2 for the rootzone! That area needs O2. CO2 uptake happens at leaves, and should only be used during lights-on or you risk suffocating your girls.

I have no idea how brewer's yeast would behave in the soil. If your aim is to feed the soil (microbes), then focus on things like mycorrhizal fungi. A good dry source if you feel you need an inoculant is the Dr. Earth series of mixed fertilizers. I usually use #4 (for acid-loving plants). You can also make a tea with these products in order to give a super quick delivery. Another product that's great for dosing mycos, found on eBay, is Super Plant Tonic sold by Blue Mountain Organics. Buncha hippies doin' it right.

StonedBulgarian said:

A very nice post :) Man in my next grow i will not use any chems too!I heard that the absolutly organic grow have the best taste of all...is it true?im just beginning my indoor grow expirience now and i want to know whats the best way to get full flavour weed.I hope i dont overfert my current grow cuz its nice.

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i found outdoor organic gives the best flavors, but it's hard to grow the same quality outdoor as it is indoor. it all has to do with the type of organic ferts u use. like i found earthworm castings gave my buds nice earthy flavs while using molass. gives nice sweet buds. if you flush your organic ferts then they won't effect flavor but i personally like to give my plants a good dose of bio bizz's top-max about a week before harvest, and it gives my fruity plants a sweetness like no other. also i think the real reason organic grows are so popular is becuase it's really easy. organic ferts are basically idiot proof. which makes them perfect for new growers to get the best results.

Seamaiden said:

Another product that's great for dosing mycos, found on eBay, is Super Plant Tonic sold by Blue Mountain Organics. Buncha hippies doin' it right.

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One of my favorite products hands down is the SPT from BMO! Right now I'm using Earth Juices Myco Rooters solid myco fungi, and I'm just not seeing the same kind of results that I loved with the BMO. I'm def gonna be switching back when I finish this bottle that I currently have.

i've never tried the BMO, but i've heard nothing but good things. for root boosters i love bio-bizz's root-juice. shit is like viagra for your roots. what it does is add those beneficial microbs that colonize the root zone helping the plants to up take nutrients and water much easier. i'll end up with pearlesent white perfect healthy root bound plants in 7.5 gal containers after vegging for 5-6 weeks. you want serious roots then i personaly think that the root juice has performed wonders for me. i had two plants root bound in 5 gal containers only after three weeks veg. the stuff almost works too good. i've only tested one other root booster and it didn't work nearly as well, so my testing of rooting products has only gone so far. i stand by the entire bio-bizz line with confidence that they produce some of the highest quality ferts for a very reasonable price. my harvests have never looked nearly as good until i started using bio-bizz. before that i used fox farm which i felt they put more effort into their bottle artwork than their product. don't get me wrong fox farm is the best american made ferts u can buy, but bio-bizz is held to a much higher standered of organic certification than american organics. there is no question that you are getting the highest quality ferts for your ladies. really it all boils down to what works for you. i've seen people grow some pretty damn good bud using miracle gro soils and ferts, so what ever works best for you is the ticket. i will definalty be keeping an eye out for that stuff...i don't know if i've ever even seen it before at my grow shop.

Well I beg to differ on the cant burn with organics. I agressivly use high quantities of them to get supercharged results and regularly burn em. OOPS a tad bit much there!!

4u2sm0ke said:

I grow organic ..useing teas i make..and I will say I do grow better then those that use chemicals..organics cant be beat..theres no such thing as nute burn when doing organics..and no worries on PH. if your soil is ammended correctly..good luck and happy growing

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RE: Malt Extract

Home-brewing shops sell any number of malt extracts. As a matter of fact you can get the correct form of barley seed (not the product in the supermarket) and make your own. Bakers have been doing this for centuries - literally.

Barley (the source of the malt) contains any number of enzymes that are beneficial to plants in general.

Malt that you find for home brewers runs about $3.00 per lb. in the dry form and there are liquid versions as well. Most of the difference has to do with the amount of time that the sprouted barley seeds spent in the roasting process - longer time = darker malts.

OT