SOS - Can I save them?

GR33NL3AF · Nov 14, 2012

Allright here's the rundown:

Rooms consists of 2 4x8 beds...1 FFOF the other Roots Organic Soil
FFOF Table is sick, badly.
4000w
75-80 F
50-60 RH
pH 6.8-7.1
All I have fed them is tea:
Humisoil, EWC, CAPs and molasses
I have fed both my beds the same at the same time. The Roots organics bed is PERFECT but the FFOF is showing some serious lockout (Cal, Mag, N etc.)
The soil was reused but I have never had a problem when reusing soil, I flush heavy before chop.

The problems started a week ago and I went ahead and flushed, and flushed and then flushed with florakleen cause I noticed the run off reading 800+ ppm (on my testing strips). After the flush I decided to brew up a tea and see if that would correct it (Caps bennies are a lifesavor), it didn't. Yesterday after noticing that the yellowing was spreading to other healthy plants on the table I was sure it was a lack of N so..... I mixed together some EWC, Humisoil and Dolomite lime in a bucket and top dressed...Well as you can see from the pictures I just took, they got worse...BTW, the runoff is now down around 450ppm.

Let me add that the stems are extremely stiff, that a sign of high potassium?

My theory now is over watering....the FFOF is cut with ALLOT of perlite but it is still soil and needs to dry before re-watering. Is it equally as difficult to over water in Roots Organic soil? If not, then I feel I have my answer.

reeldrag · Nov 14, 2012

u can save flush super heavy with drip clean or flora clean and I mean heavy then water once then go back to your nuts half dose and work up from there they will look worse then better but in 2 weeks you should be fine I hate fox farm soil I have had nothing but problems with it. Good luck bro

GR33NL3AF · Nov 15, 2012

reeldrag said:
u can save flush super heavy with drip clean or flora clean and I mean heavy then water once then go back to your nuts half dose and work up from there they will look worse then better but in 2 weeks you should be fine I hate fox farm soil I have had nothing but problems with it. Good luck bro

So you feel strongly that its burn? I would normally base my decisions (burn or deficiency) on the look of the tips. These leafs show yellowing tips that eventually take over the leaf but not burn. The dead leafs I feel are just a sign of an excessive lack of N. But then again, I clearly dont know best...that's why I am here.

catdaddy · Nov 15, 2012

it could possibly just deficiencies from all the watering. i would let everything go completely dry and feed anywhere between 4-500ppms, if you haven't started yet, then check my runoff. depending where the runoff is at, i would do another feeding to get the ppms where i need them to be. hope that helps.

baba G · Nov 15, 2012

Have you scoped the leaves of the yellowing plants? Kinda looks like the broad mite damage we've been seeing on here....It very may well just be that soil, but if your Roots soil side starts looking like the other side, then I'd say it's a pest thing versus a lockout of sorts. Looks way worse than a shortage of nitrogen with the necrosis and stuff, I'd check with the loupe and seriously start foliaring the yellowside, that would be the first move to initiate green leaves, look into magic green from H & G or use some seaweed and spray them girls!

baba G · Nov 15, 2012

Are those the same strains in each bed?

GR33NL3AF · Nov 15, 2012

catdaddy said:
it could possibly just deficiencies from all the watering. i would let everything go completely dry and feed anywhere between 4-500ppms, if you haven't started yet, then check my runoff. depending where the runoff is at, i would do another feeding to get the ppms where i need them to be. hope that helps.

Going to give it a try, hit them with the lucas formula, lightly..Thanks catdaddy!

baba G said:
Have you scoped the leaves of the yellowing plants? Kinda looks like the broad mite damage we've been seeing on here....It very may well just be that soil, but if your Roots soil side starts looking like the other side, then I'd say it's a pest thing versus a lockout of sorts. Looks way worse than a shortage of nitrogen with the necrosis and stuff, I'd check with the loupe and seriously start foliaring the yellowside, that would be the first move to initiate green leaves, look into magic green from H & G or use some seaweed and spray them girls!

Same strain, Sour Diesel which I know mine prefers lots of N and CAL/MAG...Led me to believe it was a severe dificiency. I have battled RAs, Mites and Thrips and am familiar with there 'spotting' as a tell tale sign but I haven't seen ANYTHING to lead me to believe it is bug related and like you said, the other table (butted up next to it) has no damage.

I am going to let the soil dry out completely before my next step, I think alongside a burn/decifiency I am keeping that table WAY to wet.

Thanks guys!

Seamaiden · Nov 15, 2012

The colors are too yellow for me to really be able to say much of anything, except this--I see strong signs of a bad K-. Mid-plant leaves, spotting/splotching hard. I can't make out much of anything else.

baba G · Nov 15, 2012

GR33NL3AF said:
Going to give it a try, hit them with the lucas formula, lightly..Thanks catdaddy!

Same strain, Sour Diesel which I know mine prefers lots of N and CAL/MAG...Led me to believe it was a severe dificiency. I have battled RAs, Mites and Thrips and am familiar with there 'spotting' as a tell tale sign but I haven't seen ANYTHING to lead me to believe it is bug related and like you said, the other table (butted up next to it) has no damage.

I am going to let the soil dry out completely before my next step, I think alongside a burn/decifiency I am keeping that table WAY to wet.

Thanks guys!

Not to freak you out but from what I"ve heard the Broad mite leaves no speckling damage like the spotted mite and is only visible under magnification. I'd check with a loupe regardless, as the weaker plants might be more susceptible to a pest IF there is one. Sometimes some plants stay green for longer because the bugs are on the weak plants; not that that maybe the case but it's just a tidbit :D
Foliar, foliar, foliar...;)

Seamaiden · Nov 15, 2012

Don't forget how the hemp russet mites make it look like a mold or fungus because they're so tiny. Louping is a very good idea and I'd also pull a sample group of plants out of their pots, check the roots closely.

Allowing soil to dry out completely isn't a good idea if you're also using microbes, it *will* kill them off, or at least force them to go into stasis.

GR33NL3AF · Nov 15, 2012

baba G said:
Not to freak you out but from what I"ve heard the Broad mite leaves no speckling damage like the spotted mite and is only visible under magnification. I'd check with a loupe regardless, as the weaker plants might be more susceptible to a pest IF there is one. Sometimes some plants stay green for longer because the bugs are on the weak plants; not that that maybe the case but it's just a tidbit :D
Foliar, foliar, foliar...;)

Seamaiden said:
Don't forget how the hemp russet mites make it look like a mold or fungus because they're so tiny. Louping is a very good idea and I'd also pull a sample group of plants out of their pots, check the roots closely.

Allowing soil to dry out completely isn't a good idea if you're also using microbes, it *will* kill them off, or at least force them to go into stasis.

Ok, I will get myself a scope today and check them out - however I find it hard to believe this is only happening to one bed and not the other. Seamaiden, I am in beds so I can't examine each pot. Because I am in beds I am almost positive it is a feeding error on my part, not bugs. I have examined soil, leafs and roots that are exposed through the smart pot liners and the only sign of life is springtails and I am not concerned with those.

Seamaiden, you mentioned not to let the soil dry out completely - well I am wondering, with the heavy amounts of perlite I cut that table with, how hard is it to over water?

Seems to me at this point the deficiencys are: Cal, Mag, Nitrogen and Phosphorus. I am led to believe that I have excessive Potassium in the soil but with a ppm at around 700 is that really a number that would cause burn?

reeldrag · Nov 15, 2012

That was my point its only in one bed not the other if it was bugs it would b showing up in both the point I was making is not sure what's going on so flush everything and get back to zero so he knows where to start it like painting starting with a clean canvas is always easier it could b deficiencies or lock out and since its reused dirt its just easier to take it to zero and start over where u know what's in there good luck bro.

GR33NL3AF · Nov 16, 2012

reeldrag said:
That was my point its only in one bed not the other if it was bugs it would b showing up in both the point I was making is not sure what's going on so flush everything and get back to zero so he knows where to start it like painting starting with a clean canvas is always easier it could b deficiencies or lock out and since its reused dirt its just easier to take it to zero and start over where u know what's in there good luck bro.

FLUSHED HEAVY! Did the 4x8 table in 1/4s and flushed 18-20 gallons per quarter. pH in was the same out. PPMs in were 150 and ppms out averaged 500. I did use florakleen at the higher app rate of 2 tsp per gallon. I'm thinking at 500 ppms they couldn't be burning....going to get back to feeding once they have time to dry.

Dumb question, maybe, but, I use an all organic top dressing in flower and I'm thinking that may have been what was sitting lower down in the soil and burned them. Will the organic ingredients in my top dressing register on the ppm meter?

Seamaiden · Nov 16, 2012

GR33NL3AF said:
Ok, I will get myself a scope today and check them out - however I find it hard to believe this is only happening to one bed and not the other. Seamaiden, I am in beds so I can't examine each pot. Because I am in beds I am almost positive it is a feeding error on my part, not bugs. I have examined soil, leafs and roots that are exposed through the smart pot liners and the only sign of life is springtails and I am not concerned with those.

Seamaiden, you mentioned not to let the soil dry out completely - well I am wondering, with the heavy amounts of perlite I cut that table with, how hard is it to over water?

Seems to me at this point the deficiencys are: Cal, Mag, Nitrogen and Phosphorus. I am led to believe that I have excessive Potassium in the soil but with a ppm at around 700 is that really a number that would cause burn?

Ahhh.... this is why I've been SO reluctant to try a bed indoors. Outside is one thing, you can get around it, get under the girls and all of that. Inside..? I need to be able to get around them and touch them all.

If you've used that much perlite, then I'm going to guess that it would be damn near impossible to overwater, unless there's no drain hole.

I can't speak to how much K it would take to burn. I wouldn't be concerned about springtails, either.

SOS - Can I save them?

SOS - Can I save them?

GR33NL3AF

reeldrag

GR33NL3AF

catdaddy

baba G

bean sprouts are tasty

baba G

bean sprouts are tasty

GR33NL3AF

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

baba G

bean sprouts are tasty

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

GR33NL3AF

reeldrag

GR33NL3AF

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

SOS - Can I save them?

SOS - Can I save them?

GR33NL3AF

reeldrag

GR33NL3AF

catdaddy

baba G

bean sprouts are tasty

baba G

bean sprouts are tasty

GR33NL3AF

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

baba G

bean sprouts are tasty

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

GR33NL3AF

reeldrag

GR33NL3AF

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

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