Struggling Seedlings

Indecisive · Apr 15, 2020

Greetings all. I have some struggling seedlings I could use some help with. These seedlings are Day 3. I’m pretty sure I know the issue is environment related.

Mars Hydro TSW 2000 - 24 hour on until sprout
3x3 Tent
Biobizz Light
Grand Daddy Purp Auto Flower
Germinated in solo cups 1 1/2 cup bio buzz 1/2 cup EWC with clear wrap on top

Day 1 - Temp 82 Humidity 30%. Light Distance 40”. Removed wrap. Probably prematurely peeler all shells off. Cotyledons were all pretty much closed. Mid afternoon seedlings looked worse. Gave all 5 ml distilled water. Replaced wrap over cups to get humidity up. Started 18/6. Places humidifier in tent.

Day 2 - Morning Temp 77 Humidity 40. Seedlings looked a lot better. Removed wrap again. Gave 10 mil distilled water. Mid Day Temp 85 RH 35 Seedling health again started to decline. Moved light to 60”Left wrap off. Still 18/6. During lights on 12 midnight. Temp 67 left humidifier left on, 88 RH

Day 3 - Morning Temp 61 Humidity 45. Adjusted light to 36” as I don’t think it was heat stress from the light. Think the extreme temperature swings are severely affecting plants. Not watering today as I think Ioverwatering. Top soil dry beneath is still moist.

My question is since we are about to have a few cold days where I’m at. Would switching to 20-4 or back to 24 have a negative affect? I mean the plants are already hurting and I’m having a real hard time controlling temp.

Indecisive · Apr 15, 2020

Any suggestions on what would keep plants like this?

Mospeada · Apr 15, 2020

Put a lid on them for a few days starting right now...anything below 50% rdh is too low for seedlings. Even 60% is kinda low. Usually, you'd keep a dome on them until the roots have set properly, usually noticeable by noticeable growth in the seedling.

Mospeada · Apr 15, 2020

If you don't want to put a lid on them then keep misting often and regularly.

Mospeada · Apr 15, 2020

Actually seeing as I've thrown my two cents in...Get your starter fertiliser ready. You want to encourage root growth more than anything first thing. Do the dome thing or keep them misted. Then two things super important to rooting. Kelp extract and Phosphorous. Kelp will have cytokines that will promote cell division in the root zone and a tiny amount of P will energise the process. I use Mono ammonium Phosphate, only 1/16 tsp per gallon and 1ml/L of the kelp extract. 0.25ml/L of micro and 0.25ml/L of bloom for the first week and a half. Once the roots have set I usually go from the weak 25% solution to 100% over the course of a week.

farmersonly · Apr 15, 2020

i always hate starting from seed. clones are so easy

darkslash54 · Apr 15, 2020

i would try to keep the humidity up from my initial glance of those pics.

Madbud · Apr 15, 2020

They’ll be fine above 50°, but slow obviously. Probably don’t need any water for a couple days. As long as those first two true leaves sprout, your plant can survive.

Indecisive · Apr 16, 2020

I got impatient dig around. 1 seed the root was about 1/2 inch and brown. The other seed 1” and brown. And the further along one about 3” mostly brown. The soil was wet all the way to the bottom. In a last ditch Hail Mary I attempted to transplant to a drier batch of soil misted top soil and misted wrap and covered. Good news and after 7 days my 4th popped out out of the dirt. Even with a humidifier I can’t get the humidity above 50 with lights on. I don’t have any of those nutrients mentioned although I’ve read numerous articles the benefits of kelp. So that’s on my list of things to get

Indecisive · Apr 16, 2020

Mospeada said:
If you don't want to put a lid on them then keep misting often and regularly.

Misting the soil or the actual plant? Obviously the soil because the light wouldn’t burn the plant with water on it correct?

Mospeada · Apr 16, 2020

Indecisive said:
Misting the soil or the actual plant? Obviously the soil because the light wouldn’t burn the plant with water on it correct?

Haha that's why a lid would be better imo. Umm with lighting that should be really low too. Basically you can't push in any kind of way until those roots set, no pushing with nutes/lights/co2. I've had touch n go clones that took two weeks for the roots to set (I was spraying the leaves to keep them alive, if there's no roots the leaves can still draw in water). Basically getting you humidity up asap will make life a lot easier on those plants for a couple of days. Right now is crucial, the longer you wait the longer it will take for roots to set. If you're unsure just check it every so often.

I grow in a sealed tent, which is pretty easy to get RDH about 50% but even still I'll always cover my clones until the roots are really going.

Madbud · Apr 16, 2020

Indecisive said:
I got impatient dig around. 1 seed the root was about 1/2 inch and brown. The other seed 1” and brown. And the further along one about 3” mostly brown. The soil was wet all the way to the bottom. In a last ditch Hail Mary I attempted to transplant to a drier batch of soil misted top soil and misted wrap and covered. Good news and after 7 days my 4th popped out out of the dirt. Even with a humidifier I can’t get the humidity above 50 with lights on. I don’t have any of those nutrients mentioned although I’ve read numerous articles the benefits of kelp. So that’s on my list of things to get

You can’t dig a seedling up, most of the root structure is (was) microscopic. Its a seed and dirt FFS! Just needs water and warmth. Better luck next time.

Edinburgh · Apr 16, 2020

First off you do not transplant autoflowers, u put in pot u intend to do your whole grow in, second u do not run them 24 7, your running 400w me 600w i back off my light 32inc from seedling till it removes itself from tabs and starts second set then down to 24inc above canopy, you set ur light to 18 on 6 off and leave it, even a seedling need a short period of darkness, pic is samsqatch og at day 21, about 1 week behind bc of low rh and extra large pot size, you have to baby them along and let them do there thing.

Indecisive · Apr 16, 2020

Mospeada said:
Haha that's why a lid would be better imo. Umm with lighting that should be really low too. Basically you can't push in any kind of way until those roots set, no pushing with nutes/lights/co2. I've had touch n go clones that took two weeks for the roots to set (I was spraying the leaves to keep them alive, if there's no roots the leaves can still draw in water). Basically getting you humidity up asap will make life a lot easier on those plants for a couple of days. Right now is crucial, the longer you wait the longer it will take for roots to set. If you're unsure just check it every so often.

I grow in a sealed tent, which is pretty easy to get RDH about 50% but even still I'll always cover my clones until the roots are really going.

Ok I’ve got another humidifier. Keeping lights on the 18/6 schedule. The current environment is 73 and 66 RH. Lights at 36”. Haven’t watered just 1 mist on the cover and 1 on the soil to keep environment moist, distilled water. Would it be safe to remove the cups? I’m scared I’ll suffocate them if they stay on. And is there a humidity that’s too high? Like I don’t want to go over 70 or 80? Thanks for your help.

Mospeada · Apr 16, 2020

Indecisive said:
Ok I’ve got another humidifier. Keeping lights on the 18/6 schedule. The current environment is 73 and 66 RH. Lights at 36”. Haven’t watered just 1 mist on the cover and 1 on the soil to keep environment moist, distilled water. Would it be safe to remove the cups? I’m scared I’ll suffocate them if they stay on. And is there a humidity that’s too high? Like I don’t want to go over 70 or 80? Thanks for your help.

Just burp em like you do when curing. It'll only be a few days hopefully. What you're waiting for are those true leaves to grow out. Photosynthesis won't really start until then, which is why the lighting isn't important for the next few days. That one with the yellow true leaves coming through is really touch and go. Right now those tiny little cotyledons are the only thing keeping them going so try and not disturb them and if you smother them too much, can be deadly for them.

Indecisive · Apr 16, 2020

Mospeada said:
Just burp em like you do when curing. It'll only be a few days hopefully. What you're waiting for are those true leaves to grow out. Photosynthesis won't really start until then, which is why the lighting isn't important for the next few days. That one with the yellow true leaves coming through is really touch and go. Right now those tiny little cotyledons are the only thing keeping them going so try and not disturb them and if you smother them too much, can be deadly for them.

So basically the humidity needs to be high because the seedling is absorbing the water through the top and not the root? I think that’s where I went wrong. After I saw them sprout I removed the dome and watered like 10 ml of water one day and another 10 ml water another with a room at about 40 RH. So just keep misting the dome and top soil to keep a humid area and water after first true leaves are established?

Indecisive · Apr 16, 2020

I’m not sure how I am making this so complicated. I had a new seed break the ground yesterday. This morning it looked great. Now it’s leaning over doing exactly what the other 3 did. The top is dry but it’s really moist all the way to the bottom. I haven’t even watered. I just sprayed the top of the soil and sprayed my makeshift dome. Is the dome soaking the soil? The tent is 77 F with 75% RH so I removed the dome. I feel like this seedling is dampening off like the other 3.

This literally can not be this hard and I’m fairly certain I have the mental capacity to do this. I’ve literally watched people grow in tents planting seeds in dirt spraying a bottle 3 times with a tent humidity of 40. Am I over spraying?

Mospeada · Apr 16, 2020

Indecisive said:
I’m not sure how I am making this so complicated. I had a new seed break the ground yesterday. This morning it looked great. Now it’s leaning over doing exactly what the other 3 did. The top is dry but it’s really moist all the way to the bottom. I haven’t even watered. I just sprayed the top of the soil and sprayed my makeshift dome. Is the dome soaking the soil? The tent is 77 F with 75% RH so I removed the dome. I feel like this seedling is dampening off like the other 3.

This literally can not be this hard and I’m fairly certain I have the mental capacity to do this. I’ve literally watched people grow in tents planting seeds in dirt spraying a bottle 3 times with a tent humidity of 40. Am I over spraying?

I reckon all your problems came down to the first few days...to have 35% RDH on day 1 is what set it back but it's easily avoidable in future. Right now you're getting things back under control but I still stick by my initial recommendation of keeping a lid on them for another day at least with as little disturbance as possible. It's kinda like a patient in an ICU, if you've applied a treatment or surgery the only thing you can do is wait, trying to operate or give more treatments to them is usually always a bad thing.

Dan789 · Apr 17, 2020

For me it’s stable temperatures provided by a temp controlled heating mat, and a humidity dome, fluorescent lights are my go to’s, led’s not so much for seedlings. Once the seeds sprout they go into split root riot plugs in a starter tray, only watering sparingly when the plugs show dry at the tops.

ru knuts · Apr 17, 2020

Air temp doesn't equal soil temp. What are your soil temps? I find 77° best for seedlings. If they are on a concrete floor and/or your soil temps are below 70, that may your problem.

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