socalval
- 652
- 143
hey buddy movin down the street ? snow today 90 s in two weeks a 100 a lil after that .air flow is the key and alot of prep work and an solar powered air themo vent from lowes would be a great start .
markscastle
Well-Known Farmer
- 4,825
- 263
I`m not sure I`d want to do a cross with P-Red, will be refreshing the seed though. Soon as I can get a good GH up I`ll be working more with the Sativa strains and Sativa Dom crossesw/strains.
deep buddy
- 715
- 93
i got me an account w/ Farm Tek! but this year just some low hoops and blackout ,cheap, cheap
markscastle
Well-Known Farmer
- 4,825
- 263
I have so much to do myself I`m not sure I`ll even be able to put up hoop tunnels. See MC`s forrest Adventure under Med states,Cali.
MakinGoo
- 11,029
- 438
Great read.. This happened way b4 my time tho so I've never gotten a chance 2 puff on this read deal p-red buds..
sanvanalona
- 1,878
- 263
Hey Mark, I am also in the same elevation, up until recently the sun was awesome for the gh's. I would love to try anything that you put together, so hopefully you can give me a heads up when you start an auction. I must also say that this is my first year in a gh and holy shit they are so awesome! A p-Red crossed with an awesome indica may make one hell of a hybrid, would be hyped to see it.
GanjaGardener
- 848
- 63
Been meaning to get back to this for awhile. The kind of counterfeiting I was referring to wasn't that sophisticated. I'm talking about the carpetbagging dealers who started pinning popular names on average Mexican or Thai to make a sale. If it's rusty brown, call it a "red" if it's golden call it a "gold" regardless of origin. Our tastes and understanding of weed weren't as sophisticated 40 years ago. My theory is that the name scamming during the late 60's early 70's made a large number of folks in my generation distrustful of MJ names. It took me a good 20 years to accept that there was credence to MJ names and that they reflected true genetic differences, but I may have been a slow poke.
ttystikk
- 6,892
- 313
"Knockoffs that grew from seed in jungles where the soil was rich..." ?!? This may come as a shock, but jungle soils are some of the poorest anywhere, believe it or not. All the nutrients are locked up in the living matter, it doesn't get a chance to build up in the soil. Most tropical jungles are like this; strip off the jungle and the place becomes desert all but overnight.
This explains why many tropical sativa strains- some of what people called the original panama and thai strains- really don't like high nute strength, yet prefer higher humidity and higher temps to bring out their best.
This explains why many tropical sativa strains- some of what people called the original panama and thai strains- really don't like high nute strength, yet prefer higher humidity and higher temps to bring out their best.
markscastle
Well-Known Farmer
- 4,825
- 263
GanjaGardener
- 848
- 63
True. That's one of the reasons that terra preta is so fascinating.
socalval
- 652
- 143
you have a good point there .
outwest
Premium Gardener
Supporter
- 4,629
- 263
Some amusing random photos to go along with the song to go along with the legend.
outwest
Texas Kid
Some guy with a light
- 4,159
- 263
That PR story has been floatin around for awhile, ANON wrote a few real colorfull historical type recollections stories...I have another one or two in my computer somewhere that about 5 or so years we all figured he wrote as well..
Reef had some full on PR seeds a few years back and those would take over a room with the quickness
This is the other one we think he wrote, all of this story is complete fiction according to some of the guys that were actually there but it reads good
G13 History
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock. Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss) One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had, by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level! As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport". In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica. It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank. G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's) G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice) G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses. Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.) Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any of mel's books.) For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know P.S. No more than a few weeks after Sandy's death in 1987, all of Nevil's G-13 cuttings went down, including safety clones he had kept in remote places. The plants just wilted and died, despite the best efforts made to save them. No cause was ever found As for the f2s well they cant be f2s mate becouse if you or eny one researchet things ( just stateing facts nothing personal clips as your a good guy and you know i respect you) people whould know that the last ever x of the G13 clone Nevile had ( the only g13 clone in the industry at that ) the g13/sk seeds shanti was given were f1s as they came from Nevile who used the sk male over the G13 clone before it was lost ( Sed to be the best X useing the G13 of all neviles g13 hybreeds as it exprest itself best in this x sed by nevile )so that makes what ever people are makeing and passing around far from f2s and with out knowing what to select for there takeing the line further from what it should be so maybe why there getting more sativa phinos in there generations wich are not f2s mate .
I am only talking for my self here i would never speek for shanti and as i do research things and its all there for people to work out also for them selfs if they wont to mate but im thinking few did becouse if people did they would know shanti selected us the testers to give an honest report be it good or bad on the test strains and as a collective type group help each other and shanti with these strains like they do with flowers like rose clubs or even people working together to save old wold fruiet and veggys who are scated around the world yet work together as a collective group. jesse turner still shared cuts with others[canadian,univerity of washington,ohio and cple others] but there is only one g13 and nevil owns it .now the chance to be assosiated with others on the net very slim and doubtfull with the info nom has posted clears alot up .before ya speak read and investigate i put plenty of information up in breeding forum on the closed post to support what ive said. Nom de fleur my sentiments are the same as muggles as 20 plus years here growing and im a 3rd generational my family has been in growing since before the 40's .i cant wait to enjoy and try shanti's and nevils good works till then enjoy and ill chat ya later clips more info to be considered canada's conection to miss research Did you have a relationship with Dr. Carlton Turner?s research group at the University of Mississippi?
Indeed we had cordial relationships with Dr. Turner and the Mississippi group for many years, exchanging information and keeping each other abreast of developments. As you know, after his work on Cannabis Dr. Turner went on to occupy the prestigious position of Domestic Policy Advisor to the president of the US. We used a Mexican strain supplied by Dr. Turner to grow a large supply of standardized medicinal marihuana in Ottawa for Canadian use. Climatic conditions in Mississippi and Canada are of course different - a longer, hotter, drier situation in Mississippi, and this resulted in the plants in Mississippi tending to be taller, with much more leaf fall, leaving the remaining younger leaves with higher THC content on the plants. Nevertheless, morphological and chemical characteristics tended to be comparable between the two Who directed that the
Reef had some full on PR seeds a few years back and those would take over a room with the quickness
This is the other one we think he wrote, all of this story is complete fiction according to some of the guys that were actually there but it reads good
G13 History
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock. Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss) One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had, by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level! As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport". In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica. It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank. G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's) G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice) G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses. Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.) Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any of mel's books.) For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know P.S. No more than a few weeks after Sandy's death in 1987, all of Nevil's G-13 cuttings went down, including safety clones he had kept in remote places. The plants just wilted and died, despite the best efforts made to save them. No cause was ever found As for the f2s well they cant be f2s mate becouse if you or eny one researchet things ( just stateing facts nothing personal clips as your a good guy and you know i respect you) people whould know that the last ever x of the G13 clone Nevile had ( the only g13 clone in the industry at that ) the g13/sk seeds shanti was given were f1s as they came from Nevile who used the sk male over the G13 clone before it was lost ( Sed to be the best X useing the G13 of all neviles g13 hybreeds as it exprest itself best in this x sed by nevile )so that makes what ever people are makeing and passing around far from f2s and with out knowing what to select for there takeing the line further from what it should be so maybe why there getting more sativa phinos in there generations wich are not f2s mate .
I am only talking for my self here i would never speek for shanti and as i do research things and its all there for people to work out also for them selfs if they wont to mate but im thinking few did becouse if people did they would know shanti selected us the testers to give an honest report be it good or bad on the test strains and as a collective type group help each other and shanti with these strains like they do with flowers like rose clubs or even people working together to save old wold fruiet and veggys who are scated around the world yet work together as a collective group. jesse turner still shared cuts with others[canadian,univerity of washington,ohio and cple others] but there is only one g13 and nevil owns it .now the chance to be assosiated with others on the net very slim and doubtfull with the info nom has posted clears alot up .before ya speak read and investigate i put plenty of information up in breeding forum on the closed post to support what ive said. Nom de fleur my sentiments are the same as muggles as 20 plus years here growing and im a 3rd generational my family has been in growing since before the 40's .i cant wait to enjoy and try shanti's and nevils good works till then enjoy and ill chat ya later clips more info to be considered canada's conection to miss research Did you have a relationship with Dr. Carlton Turner?s research group at the University of Mississippi?
Indeed we had cordial relationships with Dr. Turner and the Mississippi group for many years, exchanging information and keeping each other abreast of developments. As you know, after his work on Cannabis Dr. Turner went on to occupy the prestigious position of Domestic Policy Advisor to the president of the US. We used a Mexican strain supplied by Dr. Turner to grow a large supply of standardized medicinal marihuana in Ottawa for Canadian use. Climatic conditions in Mississippi and Canada are of course different - a longer, hotter, drier situation in Mississippi, and this resulted in the plants in Mississippi tending to be taller, with much more leaf fall, leaving the remaining younger leaves with higher THC content on the plants. Nevertheless, morphological and chemical characteristics tended to be comparable between the two Who directed that the
socalval
- 652
- 143
Hey T K . A farmer posted that he picked up the last two packs reef had about two years ago . Its been in my files since 2008 but never hit the farm . Just one of many told by my uncles and grandfathers about life on the canal.
P red was the reason i joined the farm . The ad was in bold print ........" Your chance to buy rare marijane seeds Colombian Gold ,Panama red ,Highland Nepalese , Vietnamese black ,chocolate thai , the exotic wacky weeds of yesteryear . Finally the myths and legends of the weed world have arrived in seed form for everyone to grow smoke and enjoy . Talk to the breeders who made them and grab a piece of a legend for yourself "!
P red was the reason i joined the farm . The ad was in bold print ........" Your chance to buy rare marijane seeds Colombian Gold ,Panama red ,Highland Nepalese , Vietnamese black ,chocolate thai , the exotic wacky weeds of yesteryear . Finally the myths and legends of the weed world have arrived in seed form for everyone to grow smoke and enjoy . Talk to the breeders who made them and grab a piece of a legend for yourself "!
markscastle
Well-Known Farmer
- 4,825
- 263
I have real issues with the G13 story. First off The Sacred Seeds guys were just up the hill from me at there start and I worked with some of them off and on. G13 is short for Greenhouse 13 the number of the Goverment project at UC Kentucky or maybe my memory is bad and it was Miss? The Skunk #1 they used was my 69 skunk. I didn`t want any credit because it atracked attention from the Feds so they renamed it? Anyway while they used clones of the G13, I used seeds I got from one of the Fedral Medical patients in a tin.Seeds were very rare in those first few tins of pre-rolled joints. Then none were ever found again. Sandy by the way was a cool dude and offered more than once to have me join Sacred Seeds, but as I told him, I do things my way and work better alone on breeding projects. Much respect though to his breeding abilities as well as with Shanti `s. I can`t say much about Nevil as he was riding on Shanti`s coat tail I think. At least he wasn`t a snitch like Sam the Skunk man ! Anyway I still have some samples of the original G-13 in seed. Oh I forgot! It was Sandy who nic named me `the Little wizzard` back then because I was younger but knew so much about breeding.
GanjaGardener
- 848
- 63
Holy Shit! A rare one from the horse's mouth, (not implying you look like a horse, mc) All the respect and it's a pleasure hearin the real deal. Right on!
Darth Fader
- 1,195
- 163
Cool thread but I have to wonder - if these strains are really that great, how is it possible for them to disappear? Is it hoarding or is it a bit of looking at the past thru rose-colored glasses? FTR, I had thai-stick once in the eighties and it was amazing. Course we normally didn't great a lot of high-grade weed rolling thru.
ttystikk
- 6,892
- 313
Same reason it's often hard to get a strain that's lost out in the 'flavor of the week' sweeps... people are constantly chasing the new and trendy, and often the old stuff just gets replaced.
I'm thinking this might create a niche for some enterprising connoisseur, that s/he might create a ' heirloom seed bank' full of seeds from older strains that lost out in the popularity contest. Then, they could periodically reintroduce them, or at least make the genetics available to those who need them for specific traits, or just want to start from landraces in their breeding projects. This is being done with herbs and vegetables of all varieties, I see no reason why cannabis would be any different.
GanjaGardener
- 848
- 63
I don't usually post up wiki quotes/research w/o my own analysis, (not that I have a problem w/ it), but thought that a little refresh on the distinguishing features of 'land race' and 'heirloom' might be helpful for some.
Excerpted from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landrace
Botanical landraces should not be confused with heirloom plants, which are selectively-bred cultivars that simply predate industrial agriculture, and continue to be selectively bred to retain their pre-industrial, non-hybridized traits, though many of course derive from landraces.
they are genetically diverse. They are balanced populations – variable, in equilibrium with both environment and pathogens and genetically dynamic".
Landraces are grown from seeds which have not been systematically selected and marketed by seed companies or developed by plant breeders. Landraces refer to all those cultigens that are highly heterogeneous, but with enough characteristics in common to permit their recognition as a group.
This includes all cultigens cultivated without any specific nomenclature and value. A landrace identified with a unique feature and selected for uniformity over a period of time for maintenance of the characteristic features of the population can evolve into a farmers' variety or even a modern cultivar as in many crops; for example, Maruti in the case of pigeonpeas.[4]
Conversely, a modern cultivar grown over time by the farmers and not maintained as per the principles of maintenance breeding can "evolve" into a landrace.
There have been systematic efforts to preserve European cereal landraces either in germplasm collections or in situ. The activities of these collections are coordinated by Bioversity International. This organisation coordinates information on conservation activities, including a searchable online database of germplasm collections. However, more needs to be done, Regine Anderson argues,
because plant genetic variety depends on a diversity of landraces
There's an excellent PBS doc, "The Botany of Desire" that I've been sharing w/ members that throws an excellent perspective on this.
Excerpted from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landrace
Botanical landraces should not be confused with heirloom plants, which are selectively-bred cultivars that simply predate industrial agriculture, and continue to be selectively bred to retain their pre-industrial, non-hybridized traits, though many of course derive from landraces.
they are genetically diverse. They are balanced populations – variable, in equilibrium with both environment and pathogens and genetically dynamic".
Landraces are grown from seeds which have not been systematically selected and marketed by seed companies or developed by plant breeders. Landraces refer to all those cultigens that are highly heterogeneous, but with enough characteristics in common to permit their recognition as a group.
This includes all cultigens cultivated without any specific nomenclature and value. A landrace identified with a unique feature and selected for uniformity over a period of time for maintenance of the characteristic features of the population can evolve into a farmers' variety or even a modern cultivar as in many crops; for example, Maruti in the case of pigeonpeas.[4]
Conversely, a modern cultivar grown over time by the farmers and not maintained as per the principles of maintenance breeding can "evolve" into a landrace.
There have been systematic efforts to preserve European cereal landraces either in germplasm collections or in situ. The activities of these collections are coordinated by Bioversity International. This organisation coordinates information on conservation activities, including a searchable online database of germplasm collections. However, more needs to be done, Regine Anderson argues,
because plant genetic variety depends on a diversity of landraces
There's an excellent PBS doc, "The Botany of Desire" that I've been sharing w/ members that throws an excellent perspective on this.
ttystikk
- 6,892
- 313
Ganjagardener, I really like this- thanks for informing me about the differences between 'landrace' and 'heirloom' strains, as up til now I thought those two terms meant the same thing. I pride myself on precise use of language as perhaps the most important avenue towards greater understanding. It's certainly the only way to pass on detailed and complex information, and if cannabis cultivation doesn't qualify as detailed and complex, I don't know what would!
PBS' "The Botany of Desire" is a BRILLIANT documentary that I highly recommend to anyone interested in plants and society and their impact on one another. For those who haven't seen it, they investigate tulips, apples, potatoes and cannabis and how they and human civilization have affected each other. It's often told 'from the plant's perspective', which sounds like a cute gimmick until you see it. I almost cried when the DVR I had it saved on broke. I'm just gonna have to get the DVD, I guess...
PBS' "The Botany of Desire" is a BRILLIANT documentary that I highly recommend to anyone interested in plants and society and their impact on one another. For those who haven't seen it, they investigate tulips, apples, potatoes and cannabis and how they and human civilization have affected each other. It's often told 'from the plant's perspective', which sounds like a cute gimmick until you see it. I almost cried when the DVR I had it saved on broke. I'm just gonna have to get the DVD, I guess...
Latest posts
-
What bug do i have- Suds.an.buds posted
-
ganja farmer seeds ganja skunk ff- Oldchucky posted
-
will this mutant produce anything- Beazy posted
-
For Sale Tenguseedco- Newty posted
