Thanks for this info, I got switched to smart meter recently, now getting jacked w/ bills @ 2x what I paid before. I flower off-peak, and getting TED asap to watch behind these corporate thieves.

Not only being ripped off But they are un safe for your health. And they invade on your privacy.

This is interesting topic that I was just sorta looking into yesterday when I had the oppurtunity to switch my bloom cycle to a new time period as I was starting over after getting some PM in there.

I have been running my lights during the day because I was worried about light leak; but recently had covered my exterior windows with panda film and thought of going to overnight lighting; so I went to my utility co website to find off-peak pricing.

Guess what? It is not automatic on these new meters - it requires an extra meter just like the old hot water tank off-peak meters. My utility claimed on the webpage that you need to be dropping $280 or more a month to benefit from an off-peak meter. I got the feeling from the script that they won't even install one if you don't meet that threshhold.

So it is something to think about and investigate further I suppose; but it is not as easy as switching usage time and expecting lower rates. For some reason I thought a "smart meter" would know what time it is when I use power...

The smart meter is a scam. Soon every house will have them. They are going to allow us certain amount of energy every month. Once you go over that allowed amount you will be heavily taxed on it. For lower income homes as soon as you go over your electricity is shut off. Smart meters are no good.

paperplane said:

The smart meter is a scam. Soon every house will have them. They are going to allow us certain amount of energy every month. Once you go over that allowed amount you will be heavily taxed on it. For lower income homes as soon as you go over your electricity is shut off. Smart meters are no good.

Click to expand...

'The Transformation of Ratepayers into Customers'

This is the title of the document. Sounds innocuous right? But a customer presumes they have the right to shop around and buy the product somewhere else. From a competitor. Like gasoline. Always going up but at least there is competition right? Wrong!

Read the UTILITY COMPANY BENEFITS bullet on CREDIT LIMITS AND PREPAID SERVICE. This isn't competition. This is setting up an economic choke point that allows them classify the 'customer' by 'type' and then 'tailor' the bill to the type of 'customer' classification you fall into. More to come on that below but read the CLASS OF SERVICE bullet point as it relates to 'maximum current in amperage' being consumed by a 'customer'.

http://refusesmartmeter.com/What Makes a Smart Meter Smart May 2011 Rev 3.pdf

Now imagine that through this meters 'bi-directional communication' they can actually turn off the appliances or ratchet them down in an 'emergency' so you don't have absolute control of your devices. That to is coming to a store near you and here's how it's being planned.

New appliances and lights will come with an I/0 port or will wirelessly send it's IP address to these meters. The new protocol is IPv6. IPv6 represents a virtually unlimited number of addresses that will allow the internet to absorb individual addresses to appliances, air conditioning systems and lights to name a few that will allow an actual detail of what the load is, when it's running, and either allow the load to be shut off or run at reduced capacity by the utility to 'prevent overload of the grid' in the event of a high power demand situation on the grid.

Manufacturers will gladly go along with the IPv6 control since it makes the product 'green' and adds very little to production cost and no doubt there will be tax incentives to add this feature as well. Consumers will embrace it because the utility will offer rebates to upgrade to any appliances or lights that offer this feature and there will be tax incentives to do so at the federal and state level with the consumer seeing themselves as being a good steward of natures resources by cutting back the utilities need to generate power. Excuse me while a get a drink. :beer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6

If you're a big box retailer (and I know how many of them are here on this forum) you are most likely already in a contract with the utility that gives them the ability to peak into your EMS/BIM software and shed agreed upon loads when these conditions occur. The advantage for the big box is that it is an agreement that discounts their cost per kw/hr and raises their baseline allowance while usually only taking down the dimming and scaleable loads by 10-20% 2 or 3 times per year. Not even noticeable to the end user.

As electric energy becomes more of a managed commodity like gold and silver on a spot market it will be necessary for the providers to have better control of that market. Smart Meters and IPv6 represent a 'carbon friendly' (paperless billing,etc) reduction of greenhouse gasses, 'going green', etc etc marketing of these invasive technologies.

Before we see full implementation of a Federal Cap and Trade to reduce our 'carbon footprint' greenhouse gas emissions the beta testing is currently being done through collaborative state initiatives to partner in reducing utility power generation such as defined within the Western Climate Initiative which will lead to their ultimate goal which is a blueprint for a federal cap and trade on carbon emissions and a way to trade those emissions on the open market through a stock exchange of emissions shares.

Increase Taxes on Emissions = Rates and the Products you Purchase Cost More.
When was the last time you saw the reduced availability of anything mean a lower price for that product? Excuse me while I go blaze one. :animbong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Climate_Initiative

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissions_trading

I'm not trying to scare anyone here, just inform. Remember history repeats itself. Enron taught these energy providers that there is alot more money to be made out there and the controls of the market are put into place to allow those profits to be gained while the blessing of big brutha is given since the usage insight represents a value to them through Homeland Security and all of the other agencies that want peak into their citizens world. At that level it's a win/win.

The Tree of Freedom is not brought down by a single swing of the axe.

Some of you may want to 'drill down' a bit more on this topic so here goes;

'Some of the world's leading utilities, energy service providers, product manufacturers and technology companies are supporting the development of ZigBee Smart Energy. Several other standards groups are also involved with extending the reach of ZigBee Smart Energy to more homes around the world'.

Earlier in this thread I linked the stanford students video which proved that they were being billed 2.5 times what they should have been charged. The utility co blamed it on a wireless error with their meters ZigBee connection. In other words the bill the students got was actually the neighbors or at least that ended up being one of the explanations. However the latest generation of ZigBee they are now happy to report has corrected this isolated incident and they continue to use it as described in both published and unpublished protocols.

The ZigBee platform exists to do the following for the utilities using the CSUM digital meters as hardware;

'This standard supports the diverse needs of a global ecosystem of utilities, product manufacturers and government groups as they plan to meet future energy and water needs'.

“In 2014, global revenues for home energy management equipment and services will reach $3.3 billion from an aggressive viewpoint. ZigBee will make up about half of the global home energy management market at this time (this includes wired and wireless systems).”

You can visit their site to learn more;


if you're meter is digital there is a high probability you are being metered using the ZigBee interface.

I like my digital meter. Only the electrical company can tell how much juice I'm using. If I had an old meter it would be spinning its ass off even when the lights were presumably off in the house.

Sucks if they're ripping me off, doesn't seem that way though.

I think those smart meters will tell how much power is being used by pressing that button.

Mines a digital meter than has a number that slowly goes up... There is no button to push. You'd have to go there one day check the kwh, then go the next day and check the kwh, do some math to figure it out I suppose. But the old meters it would be obvious cause that do dad is spinning.

Maybe mines not smart and just digital, idk. Meter reader still checks mine.

There is a common misconception that the meter readers still have to come near your house in a truck to read the meter from the street. That is no longer necessary. Read the bullet points as to what these meters can really do for the utility here;

http://refusesmartmeters.com/What%20Makes%20a%20Smart%20Meter%20Smart%20May%202011%20Rev%203.pdf

Then check out some of the legal arguments as Invasion of Privacy and a Violation of Constitutional Rights to name a few are being made against the use of smart meters here;

http://refusesmartmeter.com/A%20Small%20Claim%20With%20Big%20Consequences.pdf

And lastly this now is an unclassified paper that the DOD released as it relates to the effects RF energy has on humans.

http://refusesmartmeter.com/Bioeffects_of_Selected_Non-Lethal_Weapons.pdf

And we wonder why cancer rates continue to rise? :icon_dizzy:

'The company (PG&E) declined to be interviewed for this story';

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4XKq5Cw6bk

priceless

@soundiceuk - You are jacking the thread with you advertising. Please stop, or at least make your own thread.

Calbunn - This is all somewhat disturbing news, and yet not totally surprising. I'm sure that it is totally open to eventual abuse, but I'm tempted to think that it's also a technique to simply baffle customers with new and improved bullshit. "Sorry sir, but the [totally re-programmable] robot says that you've used this much electricity and you can't prove otherwise. Computers don't lie, so cough up." Yeah, and neither do slot machines... I will be buying a TED meter as soon as I save my pennies.

What it made me think of, however, was a potential solution. You being an electrically oriented sort of dude, can you critique the idea? Basically I'm envisioning an expanded trickle charger for a motorcycle battery. You plug it into an outlet, a timer turns on the charger during user-defined hours and tops up the battery and then automatically shuts of when full (or when it gets more expensive again), your lights draw from the battery instead of the grid itself. I'm sure that voltage conversion comes into play along with a bunch of other issues, but it seems like it would kill two or more birds at once:
-Program it to charge when juice costs the least
-Avoid leaving a trail consisting of sketchy usage patterns
-Use only the electricity you need
-Doesn't have an RFID so it's invisible to the Electric Co
-Draws only a little juice at any given time so it doesn't stand out

I dunno how to deal with the whole RF appliance link issue, but maybe this erases it from the beginning. What say you?

Avoid smart meters like The Plague!

You. have. Been. Warned.

I see a future where everyone will have smart meters. People will have to run 2 flower rooms on a flip so they wont be detected.

double post. sorry:sad0047:

ShutUpDonny said:

@soundiceuk - You are jacking the thread with you advertising. Please stop, or at least make your own thread.

Calbunn - This is all somewhat disturbing news, and yet not totally surprising. I'm sure that it is totally open to eventual abuse, but I'm tempted to think that it's also a technique to simply baffle customers with new and improved bullshit. "Sorry sir, but the [totally re-programmable] robot says that you've used this much electricity and you can't prove otherwise. Computers don't lie, so cough up." Yeah, and neither do slot machines... I will be buying a TED meter as soon as I save my pennies.

What it made me think of, however, was a potential solution. You being an electrically oriented sort of dude, can you critique the idea? Basically I'm envisioning an expanded trickle charger for a motorcycle battery. You plug it into an outlet, a timer turns on the charger during user-defined hours and tops up the battery and then automatically shuts of when full (or when it gets more expensive again), your lights draw from the battery instead of the grid itself. I'm sure that voltage conversion comes into play along with a bunch of other issues, but it seems like it would kill two or more birds at once:
-Program it to charge when juice costs the least
-Avoid leaving a trail consisting of sketchy usage patterns
-Use only the electricity you need
-Doesn't have an RFID so it's invisible to the Electric Co
-Draws only a little juice at any given time so it doesn't stand out

I dunno how to deal with the whole RF appliance link issue, but maybe this erases it from the beginning. What say you?

Click to expand...

What you're describing is a solar system inverter that converts the dc from stored power in battery banks to the 120/240 ac we use in our homes. The inverter will usually be programmed to handle all the loads with solar direct or the battery stored power unless the inverter has been programmed to do something differently.

Since the highest kw/hr costs occur during the day this is the best time to utilize the solar system for your actual grow light loads and any excess power is sent back to the utility and you are credited for the power you put back on the grid.

What makes this a good arrangement for the grower is that even if he has 10 ea., 250 watt solar panels and is using low wattage/temp with high PAR efficiency grow lights during the day there is going to be day's with enough sunlight to offset all or some of the steady usage that these lights normally show up on a utility meter.

Here's a video that shows a generator/solar(no batteries)/utility service and how the electric service is down to $5.00 per month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZknKTnM-ug

That is a pretty cool piece!

I hadn't considered the solar aspect, which is even more responsible and cost effective in the long term, especially so given that I'm in the desert. Though it obviously requires a healthy investment up front. My problem is that I don't own the house I'm living in, so making that kind of installation wouldn't necessarily fly even if I had the cash. That said, something portable would definitely be intriguing. I just spent a few minutes on google looking for some, but it seems like most portable systems generate well under 100w when the guy in the video was talking several kw in order to get credits. Have you seen anything portable/non-permanent which generates a kw or more?
Or if that's not in the cards, have you seen a simple system for charging a battery straight out of the wall which could then power a sizable LED or induction lamp for a 12hr cycle? What I can say is that my lights draw 370w, plus I have a few fans, a few timers, and two 15w CFLs that I use as work lights, so something that could handle at least 500w would probably be in order. Maybe call it 800w so I could get more lights down the road. I've found inverters which can do that, but how do I identify a reliable battery + a quality means of charging it via a regular old outlet?

Sorry for all the questions and ignorance. I don't really have the electrical terminology down, let alone the fundamental understanding or familiarity with sources to describe or find what it is that I'm picturing.

I'm going to run into a few topics here but it all comes together at the end.

USAG Eric Holder should be thrown out of office and criminally tried for his personal involvement on Fast and Furious, Gunrunner and the Solyndra scandal for starters. This is the same AG who shuts down on of CAli's MMJ dispensaries for violating the Fed Sch classification of Cannabis and anyone who distributes or aids and abets the distribution of it is in violation of federal law. However as you'll see in the later video he appears to give a pass to CO since the Justice Dept has 'limited resources' to engage in prosecution where the state laws and controls the exact distribution that is, as current, quite illegal under federal guidelines. :sign0065: On your way out I'd like to thank you Mr. Holder for making the current federal position abundantly clear.

As the head of all law enforcement in the USA, Eric Holder was by LAW supposed to get a personal memo from the head of the Dept of Energy, Mr. Steven Chu informing him that a company, Solyndra, which the DOE had helped finance through our hard earned taxes to the tune of $572M went BK.
Treasury is used to seeing a percentage of taxpayer funding go through a bankruptcy proceeding but Treasury is ALWAYS the first in position to get paid and never subordinates their loan to private money lenders. Until now.

Yesterday Holder when asked if he was ever informed that Solyndra went BK and the US Treasury was listed as a SUBORDINATE investor and would get nothing did he ever receive that memo and did he intend on prosecuting anyone at DOE for allowing the illegal SUBORDINATION of our TAX dollars, Mr. Holder could not recall ever having been informed.

Of course Obama has Full Confidence in his current AG who is a Chicago buddy who can't hold anyone accountable or fire those who were involved in Fast and Furious. Instead they get transferred to other departments. Mr. Holder also never seems to remember much about when when he was even informed of this operation.

If you're unfamiliar with Fast & Furious this is good place to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1WaOh1ovdBg#!

Yesterday's hearing with Darrell Issa questioning Holder over Fast and Furious was priceless. You can hear the Issa/Holder exchange @ 13:30 into this video. Issa was on a roll:

"This administration is more interested in building data bases, in talking about control, than controlling the flow of guns they had control over. …[Fast and Furious] was not an accident. This project was failed and flawed from the beginning."

Issa went on to make the point that “Brian Terry is dead today because of this program,” yet Holder and Co. are hesitant to investigate Terry’s murder for fear of uncovering their own culpability to a greater degree. Said Issa: “This justice department is not looking for who killed Brian Terry” in order to preserve their own “plausible deniability.”

Issa continued:

"The president has said he has full confidence in this attorney general. I have no confidence in a president who has not terminated those…who knew enough to stop this program. …Mr. attorney general, the blame must go to your desk. Why haven’t you terminated the many people involved?"



In an earlier ruling this same AG actually denies the family of the slain border agent by one of these weapons any federal compensation for their lack of oversite of the program. Holder actually states that the agents death was a societal problem not directly attributable to any wrongdoing by the Justice Dept.

Get a look at the guys in this video who bought the guns and the one who killed agent Terry. Fine examples of societal wrongdoing Mr. Holder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvSq-Uod-Gg&feature=relmfu

Now we're to believe that he won't enforce US law against MMJ dispensaries and has no interest in those who are in compliance with state law regarding the medical use of cannabis. Not likely due to the fact that by keep cannabis illegal it drives the majority of illicit profit that keep the cartels in business and to maintain that control they need guns and money laundering.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/08/medical-marijuana-federal-interference_n_1137745.html

Try protecting our Borders and getting back to what the constitution asked of our Federal Government. Nothing more. Nothing less. Start with restoring Posse Comitatus so we can defend ourselves from the heavily armed gangs already operating in our county who take their orders and make their livings from the very cartels who end up with these guns.

Elect Ron Paul: By the People, For the People

The tree of freedom is not brought down by a single swing of the axe

smart meters are easy to read the digital number counts up as more you use . i hate that feture i worry if my neighbours sees. ie my meter reads 82,500 his reads like 11,000 both installed sameday lol easy for someone like me to read. theres also a voltage display on mine