Owlfarm said:

Hello all,
I've put a lot of thought into the question of the best herb out there. The popular consensus seems to be that organically grown is better than synthetically grown herb. I have used all kinds of methods and variations between the two. From totally simple out in the woods organic to water culture pure sterile solution with synthetics.
Try as I might I still think some of the best herb I've ever had has been grown with synthetic nutrients.
There are a lot of synthetic haters out there. I went to a dispensary today and asked if they would like a sample. As I started to open a bag the owner asked if it was 100 percent organic. I said no, and she said 'don't even open the bag'
I figured I would post in the undercurrent section because out of necessity I think most of you are using synthetics. In my experience undercurrent plus organics is a big mess.
So what's the verdict? Are there any growers out there that want to challenge the view that no matter what organics are better?

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vaporedout said:

im no biologist or anything, we go about 90% organic. we use a bunch of home remedies for stuff and sometimes forget to use the organic. example, we use skim milk for PM, but i totally spaced it when i bought it and bought regular. didnt really notice a difference. but the thing i do notice about is the flush times. we vaporize a lot and i can always tell when the nutes are present. organic ive noticed i flush for about a week and its all good. i also think organic anything tastes better. grab 2 bananas at the store, 1 reg and 1 organic. you can tell the difference. i just dont understand why clubs sell organic cheaper, i used to always see "top shelf capped at 45, organics capped at 35" i think organic is a bit pricier to grow than synthetic, so why is it cheaper? your yields are lower as well. thats always baffled me. im still trying to get my hands on some finished veganics product. ever since i saw the kushman video ive had a semi. im about to get a crack at some aquaponics herb, cant wait to run that through the vape.

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vaporedout said:

im no biologist or anything, we go about 90% organic. we use a bunch of home remedies for stuff and sometimes forget to use the organic. example, we use skim milk for PM, but i totally spaced it when i bought it and bought regular. didnt really notice a difference. but the thing i do notice about is the flush times. we vaporize a lot and i can always tell when the nutes are present. organic ive noticed i flush for about a week and its all good. i also think organic anything tastes better. grab 2 bananas at the store, 1 reg and 1 organic. you can tell the difference. i just dont understand why clubs sell organic cheaper, i used to always see "top shelf capped at 45, organics capped at 35" i think organic is a bit pricier to grow than synthetic, so why is it cheaper? your yields are lower as well. thats always baffled me. im still trying to get my hands on some finished veganics product. ever since i saw the kushman video ive had a semi. im about to get a crack at some aquaponics herb, cant wait to run that through the vape.

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Gamrstwin36 said:

* Organic hydroponics: Is complete nonsense. The 'organic' buzzword is overused and largely misunderstood by the general public. 'Organic' doesn't mean 'good' or 'better.' It means that the material in question is sourced from a biological system. Organic nutrients are, in actual fact, mostly shit. Compost and manures themselves are not assimilable by plants; it's the breakdown components, N, P & K, which plants eat. There's no difference between the N, P & K obtained via organic matter breaking down and that obtained from "chemical" aka inorganic fertilisers. However, inorganic nutes allow you to precisely and CONSISTENTLY control the amount of N, P & K presented to the plants. With 'organic' nutes, you never really know what the precise amounts and ratios of N, P & K your plants will actually get. Moreover, inorganic nutes are not affected by the use of H2O2 in hydroponic nute solns. Inorganic based hydro systems are clean, tanks are clear and such systems are much easier to maintain, especially for the newbish. Now, before some holy organic evangelist upbraids me for not knowing what I'm talking about, know ye this: my veg patch out back is run on organic principles; my cannabis plant waste, lawn clips and kitchen veg cuttings are composted and incorporated into the garden soil after spending about a year breaking down in the compost bins. It works pretty well- outdoors, where I don't give a damn how many bugs & microbes are hanging about. In my indoor hydroponic grow-op, I want to have only ONE living organism: cannabis plants.

So, wut up, dawg?


That was from ALBFUCT. .and i agree. I do believe it's about preference. .My aunt doesn't eat meat so wouldn't ask her to join us for dinner at a steakhouse. Aquaponics Something i wanna dive into lol so maybe i can pick your brain there. ..

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Owlfarm said:

Good stuff guys. It's cool to hear some logical arguments in this debate. I'm in an area of the country where synthetics are considered sin and organics are the only way to god. It's a very puritanical mindset.
I think it depends on the strain too. I've done some strains over and over with synthetics and not had a lot of flavor. Then I've had a buddy run a cut in organics and the flavor really popped. Another strain I've done with synthetics for years just never turns out that good with organics in my opinion.

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Gamrstwin36 said:

* Organic hydroponics: Is complete nonsense. The 'organic' buzzword is overused and largely misunderstood by the general public. 'Organic' doesn't mean 'good' or 'better.' It means that the material in question is sourced from a biological system. Organic nutrients are, in actual fact, mostly shit. Compost and manures themselves are not assimilable by plants; it's the breakdown components, N, P & K, which plants eat. There's no difference between the N, P & K obtained via organic matter breaking down and that obtained from "chemical" aka inorganic fertilisers. However, inorganic nutes allow you to precisely and CONSISTENTLY control the amount of N, P & K presented to the plants. With 'organic' nutes, you never really know what the precise amounts and ratios of N, P & K your plants will actually get. Moreover, inorganic nutes are not affected by the use of H2O2 in hydroponic nute solns. Inorganic based hydro systems are clean, tanks are clear and such systems are much easier to maintain, especially for the newbish. Now, before some holy organic evangelist upbraids me for not knowing what I'm talking about, know ye this: my veg patch out back is run on organic principles; my cannabis plant waste, lawn clips and kitchen veg cuttings are composted and incorporated into the garden soil after spending about a year breaking down in the compost bins. It works pretty well- outdoors, where I don't give a damn how many bugs & microbes are hanging about. In my indoor hydroponic grow-op, I want to have only ONE living organism: cannabis plants.

So, wut up, dawg?


That was from ALBFUCT. .and i agree. I do believe it's about preference. .My aunt doesn't eat meat so wouldn't ask her to join us for dinner at a steakhouse. Aquaponics Something i wanna dive into lol so maybe i can pick your brain there. ..

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organicozarks said:

Get a terminal disease like cancer, and most likely your doctor will tell you to go organic and vegan. Wonder why?

Chemicals are for genocide, not growing plants. :)

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ttystikk said:

You'll have to tell us about the aquaponic approach and what you do. I'm going to try it, myself.

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ttystikk said:

OY. Do you have any idea whatsoever just how many chemical processes it took for you to be able to type that?

Let's see what @squiggly might have to say about this- my opinion is that we are ALL CHEMISTRY, ALL THE TIME. Organic or not, the devil as always is in the details.

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Gamrstwin36 said:

* Organic hydroponics: Is complete nonsense. The 'organic' buzzword is overused and largely misunderstood by the general public. 'Organic' doesn't mean 'good' or 'better.' It means that the material in question is sourced from a biological system.

Click to expand...

Gamrstwin36 said:

Organic nutrients are, in actual fact, mostly shit. Compost and manures themselves are not assimilable by plants; it's the breakdown components, N, P & K, which plants eat. There's no difference between the N, P & K obtained via organic matter breaking down and that obtained from "chemical" aka inorganic fertilisers.

Click to expand...

Gamrstwin36 said:

However, inorganic nutes allow you to precisely and CONSISTENTLY control the amount of N, P & K presented to the plants. With 'organic' nutes, you never really know what the precise amounts and ratios of N, P & K your plants will actually get. Moreover, inorganic nutes are not affected by the use of H2O2 in hydroponic nute solns. Inorganic based hydro systems are clean, tanks are clear and such systems are much easier to maintain, especially for the newbish. Now, before some holy organic evangelist upbraids me for not knowing what I'm talking about, know ye this: my veg patch out back is run on organic principles; my cannabis plant waste, lawn clips and kitchen veg cuttings are composted and incorporated into the garden soil after spending about a year breaking down in the compost bins. It works pretty well- outdoors, where I don't give a damn how many bugs & microbes are hanging about. In my indoor hydroponic grow-op, I want to have only ONE living organism: cannabis plants.

So, wut up, dawg?


That was from ALBFUCT. .and i agree. I do believe it's about preference. .My aunt doesn't eat meat so wouldn't ask her to join us for dinner at a steakhouse. Aquaponics Something i wanna dive into lol so maybe i can pick your brain there. ..

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Chronic Monster said:

i love squiggly, wish i was smart...lol

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Seamaiden said:

OrganicOzarks, it just so happens that my mother, a registered dietitian of over 50 years experience, pushes non-GM and organic.

Don't get me started on bioidentical hormones and patented, because the logic being used above is precisely the same. IF they were precisely the same, how come my natural hormones don't cause feminized amphibians further down the waste stream, but all my sisters using common birth control are? Why I got into such a huge argument with the last OB/GYN.

Squigs, the microbes aren't just a conduit, they often oxidize or otherwise change the actual molecule that's being delivered to the plant. P uptake and utilization is where we can observe HUGE differences, for example.

Actually, that is not the legal (and regulated) definition of organic, or what 'approved for organic production' means. E.G. Rock dusts--absolutely vital in organic cultivation, only comprised of earth shit (volcanoes).

"Inorganic" nutrients are actually chemical salts. The subject is vast and complex, but with specific regard to foods, there are studies that prove higher flavanoid and terpene levels in organic vs conventional agriculture. There are higher levels of vitamins and minerals as well. That doesn't begin to address the other legal issue with organic production--soil health.

You're misunderstanding how N, P, K, Ca, Mg, Si, etc, etc, etc, are actually taken into plant tissues, nor how they're made available to the plant by microbes. There is a HUGE difference, for example, in the flavor of a tomato that has high nitrate levels and a tomato that does not. I'm finding that it's typically accepted that produce that has high nitrates has been grown with chemical salt fertilizers (that also kill microbes). From a phsysiological standpoint I believe it's been known for some years that ingesting foodstuffs that are high in nitrates, like many luncheon meats for example, is unhealthy and can lead to health problems like cancer, for example.

Hopefully you and others can read this link: Nitrates and Nitrites: Answers to Frequently Asked Questions.

Did you know that a combination of diluted urine and wood ashes outperforms chemical salt nutrients in field trials? Even urine alone outperforms chemical salt fertilizers. The question is why, yes? Well, it just so happens that, among other things, urine is very easily oxidized and utilized by microbes, the same microbes that then go on to feed the plants. Of course, if it's too concentrated then it will kill them.

Hopefully I didn't come off as an evangelist, just someone who's not only using organic methods but is looking towards certification in the future.

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