The Ranch

RanchoDeluxe · Dec 30, 2017

The strains I'm running are mostly by Bodhi.

Prayer Tower (sativa Dom)
Cocoon
Solos stash
NLAppy (not recommended)
AppySuperSkunk
Pinball wizard
Oroblanco
Lemon wookie

I'm also running Gorilla Glue4 x dragons blood hashplant. Fantasy island x big Sur holy bud. Probably forgetting one or two.

the rrock said:
As good as it gets,upper echelon thinking,I wanna see how this works over a period of time

I had a smaller bed last 4 years. I just didn't feel like growing in it anymore. I wouldn't have mixed up 40 yards of soil by hand if it was only going to last a couple rounds. The soil only gets better.
RD

gravekat303 · Dec 30, 2017

RanchoDeluxe said:
The strains I'm running are mostly by Bodhi.

Prayer Tower (sativa Dom)
Cocoon
Solos stash
NLAppy (not recommended)
AppySuperSkunk
Pinball wizard
Oroblanco
Lemon wookie

I'm also running Gorilla Glue4 x dragons blood hashplant. Fantasy island x big Sur holy bud. Probably forgetting one or two.

I had a smaller bed last 4 years. I just didn't feel like growing in it anymore. I wouldn't have mixed up 40 yards of soil by hand if it was only going to last a couple rounds. The soil only gets better.
RD

Whats wrong with the nl appy

Organikz · Dec 30, 2017

Very nice RD. I'm learning. I knew cannabis was a dynamic accumulator but I think you really put it into perspective. Drop them where they stand...nothing gained...nothing lost! Nice thread. Keep it coming.

RanchoDeluxe · Dec 30, 2017

Compost is King!

"Get your humus source dialed in and you really won't have any questions that need an answer" - Clackamas Coot

It really is that simple. Quality compost or vermicompost is crucial for success. Especially for no tillers in smaller containers.
The brand I use (Teufels) is okay for a bagged compost. I will be incorporating worms and vermicompost after transplanting. This helps keep the beds thriving and as close to a water only situation as possible.

Nl Appy leaf. Beautiful and happy. She and two other phenos threw out stretchy almost heat or light stressed looking buds.

RanchoDeluxe · Dec 30, 2017

Organikz said:
Very nice RD. I'm learning. I knew cannabis was a dynamic accumulator but I think you really put it into perspective. Drop them where they stand...nothing gained...nothing lost! Nice thread. Keep it coming.

If you take a look at it from a natural outdoor perspective much is gained. She brings all those nutrients to the soil surface from deep below the ground. It certainly makes sense that many of our inputs are accumulators as well. We will certainly be talking more about them.
RD

Organikz · Dec 30, 2017

This is the guy who helped teach me even though he doesn't realize it. Rancho has run these beds dry...I wish to gain half his knowledge in no till. As I've always said I give credit where credit is due. I'm a noob to the no till nation. RD and those other guys pioneered and perfected the craft the best we possibly can in an indoor ecosystem. I have predators that eat predators.

I see spiders all the time, wolf spiders in the soil and web makers in the corners. Now my entire environment is becoming 1. I'm liking the interactions. Besides the spiders eating my mealy bug destroyers. Lol

RanchoDeluxe · Dec 30, 2017

Why No-till?

I choose to no-till largely from a production and labor point of view. Most of the labor is done during the initial setup. No more mixing soil after every run. Multiple transplants are a thing of the past too. Since the plants veg for 2-4 weeks in their beds...the need for a large veg area is eliminated. The rate of growth in a 500g bed is mind boggling.

Watering can be tricky, but there is a giant sweet spot between too much and too little. No till leaves open the possibility of being able to leave for an entire week.

Most of my "fertilizer" costs are upfront with the initial soil mix. Saavy growers will make their own compost or vermicompost and reduce costs even further. A 50lb sack of alfalfa/kelp for occasional teas could last a small grower a decade for less than $100 bucks.

If this wasn't enough, tilling the soil or mixing it, disturbs and destroys both macro and microlife. By not mixing the soil everything from fungal colonies to worms including all their hard work remain intact.

Here's a pic of the veg room.

JMcG · Dec 31, 2017

Excellent thread RD!
I am pulling up a chair for this one. I am definitely interested in making the switch from the bottle regimen over to some raised bed no till gardening, but have been a bit intimidated by the science behind it. Slowly, however, I have been soaking it all in and it is starting to click a bit. I managed to catch a couple of interviews with Jeff Lowenthals ( sp?) on the DGC podcast and it really opened up my eyes and ears. You, organikz , Brazel and a few others have also broken it down to a level that I can easily absorb... you guys are no till educational microbes for me!
Please continue...I'll try to keep up!

JMcG · Dec 31, 2017

So, I'll start here...
What would be the minimum size bed I could build to get myself going?My plan would be to dedicate a corner of my current room to a no till bed to get the hang of it , while simultaneously continuing along with the coco program I am currently running.
RD, I see you went with a 150 gallon for years... maybe that is a good starting point for me? I have a fair amount of space, the room is 15' x 16' with 8' ceiling. Lighting is a mix of HPS and CMH.

jumpincactus · Dec 31, 2017

RanchoDeluxe said:
The Realization

Mother nature is perfect. Wicked, yet beautiful. Don't fight her or try to bypass her. You will lose. Work with her.
Create an entire living ecosystem. The soil mix is the most integral part. The compost or humus portion is everything. High quality vermicompost really is gold.

From here, the plant is allowed to take what it wants. Instead of being force fed nutrients via chelated bottles. Life is beautiful.

View attachment 767210

I'm subbed for sure and will follow along on this excellent thread.
Ha ha a man that truly understands what a true organic system really is without all the confusion of pretty bottles and overpriced systems and nutrients. Best gardens in the world are the ones that let mother nature and her team of microbes and fungi take care of the work. But it is human ego to think we know and can do better. NOT!!!

Organikz · Dec 31, 2017

Yessir...sounds funny to introduce folks in forums but @RanchoDeluxe, @jumpincactus is really in touch with primitive style of letting our soil do th work. He's a knowledgeable old school head. I think he's top 5 for solid info IMO here

Top 5 are all the same level

RanchoDeluxe · Dec 31, 2017

JMcG said:
So, I'll start here...
What would be the minimum size bed I could build to get myself going?My plan would be to dedicate a corner of my current room to a no till bed to get the hang of it , while simultaneously continuing along with the coco program I am currently running.
RD, I see you went with a 150 gallon for years... maybe that is a good starting point for me? I have a fair amount of space, the room is 15' x 16' with 8' ceiling. Lighting is a mix of HPS and CMH.

If you want an understanding of no till philosophy, I would recommend "One Straw Revolution" by Masanobo Fukouka.

As for your question it really depends on your setup. How many watts? Or lights? Dimensions of the room. I would want to set it up so I could simply add more beds later. Is height an issue or can you run lots of plants.

The biggest drawback to these large beds is the humidity they create. Something to be aware of. Takes 2,000 gallons before it becomes an issue, but only in winter/spring for me.

JMcG · Jan 1, 2018

Thanks for the the reply Rancho!
It occurs to me that I might be de railing your thread... let me know if you want me to start a new one. I'd really like to make the transition over to no till but I have to keep it indoors. I will look into that book.
The room I am currently running is 15 x 16 with an 8' lid.
8 lights total. 4x 600 hps and 4x 315 cmh, staggered.
Pretty good ventilation, negative pressure from intake and exhaust fans, bu no ac or dehuey. I live in a cool dry climate and haven't found them necessary...yet.
As I mentioned, ideally I would like to split the room up a bit and start a bed off to the side of my coco grow and dedicate a couple of lights to it. I have seen some guys using 15 gallon fabric pots, but it sounds like a larger volume of soil really keeps it going. I like the looks of your raised beds too, my arthritic spine doesn't like things on the floor anymore

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 5, 2018

JMcG said:
Thanks for the the reply Rancho!
It occurs to me that I might be de railing your thread... let me know if you want me to start a new one. I'd really like to make the transition over to no till but I have to keep it indoors. I will look into that book.
The room I am currently running is 15 x 16 with an 8' lid.
8 lights total. 4x 600 hps and 4x 315 cmh, staggered.
Pretty good ventilation, negative pressure from intake and exhaust fans, bu no ac or dehuey. I live in a cool dry climate and haven't found them necessary...yet.
As I mentioned, ideally I would like to split the room up a bit and start a bed off to the side of my coco grow and dedicate a couple of lights to it. I have seen some guys using 15 gallon fabric pots, but it sounds like a larger volume of soil really keeps it going. I like the looks of your raised beds too, my arthritic spine doesn't like things on the floor anymore

Hey man no worries at all. I would probably build (4) 4x8' beds 18" high. I would place them all next to each other in the center of the room. Work the beds from the aisles created on the edge of the room. This way those lights overlap. You will be looking at building 12-1400 gallons of soil. Any thoughts on your soil mix?

Just a note for anyone attempting no till or with questions..... feel free to post here.
RD

JMcG · Jan 5, 2018

RanchoDeluxe said:
Hey man no worries at all. I would probably build (4) 4x8' beds 18" high. I would place them all next to each other in the center of the room. Work the beds from the aisles created on the edge of the room. This way those lights overlap. You will be looking at building 12-1400 gallons of soil. Any thoughts on your soil mix?

Just a note for anyone attempting no till or with questions..... feel free to post here.
RD

That sounds like the set up I might end up with in the future, but I currently have a medical grow to maintain as well. For my learning curve I'm hoping to keep most of the area running with my usual coco set up (rocking it ) to keep my people happy, but get a NT bed going off to the side with its own lights. Would a 3 x 6 bed 18 " deep get me going?

JMcG · Jan 5, 2018

Still wrapping my head around where to start with my soil...
I guess I'd like to stay away storm guanos and bone meals if possible, the uncertainty of what's left in them bothers me enough to look at other options. You mentioned Coots mix, and from what I have read before it sounds like a solid foundation.

brazel · Jan 6, 2018

Rancho, stoked you started a journal!
Looking good! I'm getting my grow ready... slowly, laziness is a mutha!

How's patorjunai grows going? ...I never remember how to spell that!

Have you looked into Moringa? I got a couple trees growing now I'm experimenting with
I believe there's a lot there
Cheers bro

GT21 · Jan 6, 2018

RanchoDeluxe said:
Why No-till?

I choose to no-till largely from a production and labor point of view. Most of the labor is done during the initial setup. No more mixing soil after every run. Multiple transplants are a thing of the past too. Since the plants veg for 2-4 weeks in their beds...the need for a large veg area is eliminated. The rate of growth in a 500g bed is mind boggling.

Watering can be tricky, but there is a giant sweet spot between too much and too little. No till leaves open the possibility of being able to leave for an entire week.

Most of my "fertilizer" costs are upfront with the initial soil mix. Saavy growers will make their own compost or vermicompost and reduce costs even further. A 50lb sack of alfalfa/kelp for occasional teas could last a small grower a decade for less than $100 bucks.

If this wasn't enough, tilling the soil or mixing it, disturbs and destroys both macro and microlife. By not mixing the soil everything from fungal colonies to worms including all their hard work remain intact.

Here's a pic of the veg room.
View attachment 767655

Most of your fertilizer cost is up front...what else?

brazel · Jan 6, 2018

GT21 said:
Most of your fertilizer cost is up front...what else?

"Fertilizer"

Well you use the same soil for years! The older it gets the better it is. No ph, no flush, no run off, no feeding, less water, better herb... the list goes on!
Anything particular you're interested in?

GT21 · Jan 6, 2018

brazel said:
"Fertilizer"

Well you use the same soil for years! The older it gets the better it is. No ph, no flush, no run off, no feeding, less water, better herb... the list goes on!
Anything particular you're interested in?

The question i asked him...thats all.. i know how it works

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