LocalGrowGuy
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/12/health/opioid-addiction-history/index.htmlWas looking back thru old threads and feel this one in particular needed a bump to refresh and revisit this topic. With that said did anyone see the 60 Minutes expose with a former DEA whistleblower a few weeks ago concerning the opiod epidemic and the DEA and the 3 major distributors of prescription opiods nationally. Wow what a scandal that turned out to be.
How can anyone justify shipping 1.5 million doses of oxycontin to a small town in Virginia with a population of 3500 people?
If you havent seen the episode I speak of watch it if you can access it. It horrified me, but truly didn't surprise me one bit.
Here is the link for a portion of the investigative report.
http://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes...cc3QFDwlPJ/meet-60-minutes-dea-whistleblower/
I'm trying to click through but CBS seems is foiling my efforts.In lieu of all the political challenges with this issue, I think a good place to start would be stop jailing addicts and get them into treatment so at the very least they have some tools and knowledge on how to arrest their disease and become productive members of society again. But I honestly believe greed and corruption will Trump all workable options.
BTW you never answered my question, did you see the 60 mins report? Well let me rephrase I asked if anyone in general sorry man. :)
I think it starts with congress, and dovetails into a shit sandwich of blame, excuses, shifting responsibility, etc. I'll find the link and let you know if it's the same one I am thinking of. I don't think big pharma really understood how dangerous opiates were, and the incentives to prescribe them are disgustingly perverse. It is interesting to me that most illicit substances were made illegal via legislation because of racism, yet this opiate crisis is the sole responsibility of western medicine.Thats prolly a good thang brother. Because f you are a upbeat person and work at stayin that way, this expose will bum you the fokk out. The level of greed , deceit and corruption in our country and our government is beyond comprehension in my mind.
Apparently we are going to beat the opioid epidemic by funding each addict with two cents. The budget for the Public Health Emergency Fund sits at $57,000, which is what trump said he would tap to pay for the crisis.Thats prolly a good thang brother. Because f you are a upbeat person and work at stayin that way, this expose will bum you the fokk out. The level of greed , deceit and corruption in our country and our government is beyond comprehension in my mind.
I just could not click a "like" on that. Sad indeed. :(Apparently we are going to beat the opioid epidemic by funding each addict with two cents. The budget for the Public Health Emergency Fund sits at $57,000, which is what trump said he would tap to pay for the crisis.
So treating addicts will totally work assuming said treatment doesn't cost more than two cents per. /sigh
That would be the 64,000 $ question, wouldnt it. Yes one person can make a difference in some matters, but when taking on an entire beauracracy we would need the numbers and a lot of them. Most people I feel live in apathy as to what is really going on in thier own country and the world around them. I call it the "head in the sand" syndrome.I think it starts with congress, and dovetails into a shit sandwich of blame, excuses, shifting responsibility, etc. I'll find the link and let you know if it's the same one I am thinking of. I don't think big pharma really understood how dangerous opiates were, and the incentives to prescribe them are disgustingly perverse. It is interesting to me that most illicit substances were made illegal via legislation because of racism, yet this opiate crisis is the sole responsibility of western medicine.
I think it's telling that Western medicine and religion to some extent removed the shaman/medicine man from our culture, when it seems so certain that we are on the wrong road. Sadly, I don't see big pharma or politicians doing anything other than trying to keep their jobs.
I agree that greed, deceit and corruption are rampant in this country, but what can we do about it?
I would enjoy a discussion with regards to the history of big pharma and opiates, and I think we would end up agreeing more than not, but we shall see.That would be the 64,000 $ question, wouldnt it. Yes one person can make a difference in some matters, but when taking on an entire beauracracy we would need the numbers and a lot of them. Most people I feel live in apathy as to what is really going on in thier own country and the world around them. I call it the "head in the sand" syndrome.
I do however have to disagee with your thoughts that Big P didn't realize how dangerous opiods were/are. When I can back up my claim I will do so. I do believe you are more optimistic about their intentions than they deserve though. I will look for the data so I can cite it for your review. Nice to see you as always. Hope you and the fam are well bro.
Much love brother. :D I havent given up on that article and news report about BP and thier forgone knowledge. Will pm you with it if and when I can find it. T"he truth is out there" :cool:I would enjoy a discussion with regards to the history of big pharma and opiates, and I think we would end up agreeing more than not, but we shall see.
You watch your mouth, we can't have everyone getting along.This thread is like me arguing with lgg, glad to see others having respectful disagreements and discussions.
Saw this thing that seemed pertinent https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/01/opioid-crisis-next-steps-politico-working-group-244439
I think it starts with congress, and dovetails into a shit sandwich of blame, excuses, shifting responsibility, etc. I'll find the link and let you know if it's the same one I am thinking of. I don't think big pharma really understood how dangerous opiates were, and the incentives to prescribe them are disgustingly perverse. It is interesting to me that most illicit substances were made illegal via legislation because of racism, yet this opiate crisis is the sole responsibility of western medicine.
I think it's telling that Western medicine and religion to some extent removed the shaman/medicine man from our culture, when it seems so certain that we are on the wrong road. Sadly, I don't see big pharma or politicians doing anything other than trying to keep their jobs.
I agree that greed, deceit and corruption are rampant in this country, but what can we do about it?
1. Agree that big pharma probably played a fairly major role in the significant use and probable overuse of drugs, and downplaying negative effects of addictive drugs like opiates.Eh, I'd say it's likelier without even researching it that big pharma knew how bad they were and just didn't say anything. It's not like that's what the tobacco companies did with cancer, or the alcohol companies did with cancer and abuse, or the lead and gas companies with leaded gas and mental defects, or the fracking companies with earthquakes, or the banking industry did on the ramp up to the market collapse, or the food industry with cancer and obesity, or like big pharma already did repeatedly with all of those other drugs they've made.
You can almost always guarantee that a company knows how bad it's product is long before anybody else finds out about it and they will ALWAYS protect the company and profits before the public.
I mean big pharma has already been caught doing this very thing with dozens of drugs. They've been found to have released drugs that they knew weren't safe that then went on to kill tens of thousands of people and they simply didn't tell anybody about it and the only reason we know is due to governmental inquires.
Oh and those disgustingly perverse incentives to prescribe those opiates came from big pharma in the first place.
Sorry, but this is all a bunch of teal deer. I am not really interested in your opinion, I'm interested in where you get your information to make a statement like, 'The top 10% of most addicted users use 90% of the supply' and 'First off they have positively linked earthquakes to a specific type of fracking.' You are pretty loose with the details and long on the claims, but you don't provide any evidence to support what you are saying. Respectfully, your promises of factual claims don't mean anything because you haven't qualified anything you've said. You also seem intent on making general statements when pressed for details, which doesn't really move the discussion along. I guess we can agree to disagree if you insist on being so vague.Well my claim was never that doctors were the pushers or responsible for drugs like Vioxx. I was placing blame squarely on big pharma.
The incentives generally don't come in the form of actual money. They do come in the form of near daily free lunches provided for doctors and staff as well as paid trips and speeches.
Granted most doctors don't take use of that but a good 10-15%+ do and that's plenty enough to do all the damage you'd ever need. There's a good John Oliver about it if you're interested.
I also never claimed they pushed opioids harder than any other drug because I simply do not know either way. I was saying that public safety had nothing to do with any decisions they made with opioids or any other class of drug and that's really bad because opioids are above and beyond a normal class of dangerous.
Also...Dead addicts already bought more pills than 10 survivors. That's how addiction works with most things. The top 10% of most addicted users use 90% of the supply. That's the way it is with alcohol and you don't see alcohol deaths and domestics hurting alcohol sales any.
I wasn't claiming alcohol companies did anything helpful either. I was claiming they suppressed evidence of studies that put alcohol in a bad light and have endlessly lobbied for it despite finding out more and more about how bad it really is.
When it comes to fracking there are a number of issues. First off they have positively linked earthquakes to a specific type of fracking. Not all fracking is bad. The kind that is tends to explore deeper and off to the sides and has actually been linked to earthquakes in multiple studies from multiple countries. Fluids moving in between pockets of high pressure rock while compressed is literally a way natural earthquakes can occur. I promise you they knew this before anybody else just like every company.
Secondly the fracking companies have fought to suppress the chemical formulations of what they're pumping into the ground to frack with despite some very scary chemicals turning up in the water supplies near, and not near, fracking sites. Things like heavy metals and cancerous hydrocarbons have wound up in the water supply without having a possible source besides the fracking operations. Still though they continue to fight in court for the right to not have to tell people what poisons they are pumping into their water supply.
When it comes to leaded gas the oil and gas industries as well as the lead mine and chemical manufacturing companies lobbied for years to keep any regulations from being passed against leaded gasoline as well as fought for years to suppress studies that downright proved that leaded gas caused all sorts of health and environmental concerns.
For years we had no good chemical alternative to lead in gas but with the suppression of information about how bad it was it took way longer to find a fix for it because nobody was worried about it or pouring money into figuring out how to solve the problem.
My lumping together of things was more to point out that every industry throughout history and every type of commerce has always lied about anything that could damage the business even when what they were lying about would, or was going to, cost innocent lives or worse and that they always knew about it first because it was literally their job to know about it and either solve it or make sure people didn't know about it.
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