Thinking of going hydro

OGONLY · Aug 24, 2012

lex0415 said:
Dooche bag alert!!

Anyways, I use the same nutrients for 100% perlite hempy's that I use for soil, does that mean soil is hydro too???

Douchbag alert? Does that mean you think Im a douchbag cool guy? Been on this site for a couple months and you think you can call me a douchbag huh? I know Lex, you think you're hot shit on here already. Well guess what, you're a want to be dude. You don't know shit and it shows. Try calling out real duche bags not someone who grows circles around your schoolboy ass.

LexLuthor · Aug 24, 2012

420bliss said:
Hydroponics is a subset of hydroculture and is a method of growing plants using mineral nutrient solutions, in water, without soil. Terrestrial plants may be grown with their roots in the mineral nutrient solution only or in an inert medium, such as perlite, gravel, mineral wool, expanded clay or coconut husk.

Definition of inert-(Chemistry) having only a limited ability to react chemically; unreactive.

Coco is not truly inert because it does react with the nutrient solution, now perlite or rockwool are truly inert because they don't react with the nutrients in a solution, which are true hydroponics. If its not inert then its not a hydro medium, now I'm going by the definition you posted. IDK, maybe I'm wrong in my line of thinking, but why would logic have 'hydroponics' and 'coco coir' in 2 different sub-forums if there the same thing??

LexLuthor · Aug 24, 2012

OGONLY said:
Douchbag alert? Does that mean you think Im a douchbag cool guy? Been on this site for a couple months and you think you can call me a douchbag huh? I know Lex, you think you're hot shit on here already. Well guess what, you're a want to be dude. You don't know shit and it shows. Try calling out real duche bags not someone who grows circles around your schoolboy ass.

Douchbag alert means you were acting like a sarcastic asshole when I tried having a conversation. If I'm so wrong all you had to say was "hey bro, your wrong, coco is hydro" and thats it, we could of had a normal conversation and there is no need to make a huge argument and talk shit back and forth. I've noticed something online, when people get pissed off over little things, its usually because there having issues in life so they take out there aggression on random people for no reason. So its ok bro, you can use me as an online punching bag if it makes you feel better and raises your self-esteem ;) you probably need it based on the way your acting.

GR33NL3AF · Aug 24, 2012

Oooooh, so you grow coco....haha Anyways ladies, let's keep this civil. SecretJardin was interested in advice on Hydro.

Fact of the matter is every style of growing works, just depends what WORKS for you.
I've personally seen all methods yield amazing results and after running hydro for awhile realized it takes too much time and effort, especially when you run multiple rooms. Coco and soil are way more forgiving, keep it simple.

-GR33N

squiggly · Aug 24, 2012

OGONLY said:
No disrespect squiggly. In fact I respect you a great deal and enjoy reading your posts. I have to disagree though with your statement that it requires many more actions to yield the same amount. Properly done hydro compared to soil is like a turbo Porche against a Nissan Sentra. I like my cars fast, because I can.

I think where we are differing is that you're talking about a situation where everything is held constant. Properly done hydro is the caveat here. Properly done.

You don't really start seeing any benefit from hydro until you really get comfortable with it--and beyond that you immediately lose some smell/flavor (in my opinion).

I think more actions to yield the same amount is a fair judgment of what could likely happen if a person were to go from being relatively inexperienced with soil to a first-time hydro user.

I'm not attempting to reinvent the wheel here, we all know that hydro yields significantly more--I'm trying to give advice to a singular guy. Based on what he's told us I think it's going to be more hassle for him than it is immediately worth. I think a lot of utility can be gained both in general and for hydro by sticking with an easier method first to understand what the bitches like.

Either way, both routes are perfectly viable--I don't know that we can make any judgments as to one or the other that aren't purely value-based. Qualitative/quantitative comparisons between these two methods don't really line up, the differences are many and the complexity is too deep to make it as easy as an equation.

Classic Remix · Aug 24, 2012

OGONLY said:
No disrespect squiggly. In fact I respect you a great deal and enjoy reading your posts. I have to disagree though with your statement that it requires many more actions to yield the same amount. Properly done hydro compared to soil is like a turbo Porche against a Nissan Sentra. I like my cars fast, because I can.

o_O huh??????

growing in soil will always be better IMHO. taste is 1000x better ALWAYS, i feel its a little heartier, fuck the yield. be concerned about the quality.

and that car analogy was just retarded. its a super biased ridiculous opinion.

I like my cars fast too, and that is exactly why i'll always stick to SOIL.

what you are explaining, is you always like your cars BIG, like a fucking bus, regardless of speed.

assuming speed = (dankness of herb x yield) + taste

Dirty White Boy · Aug 24, 2012

lex0415 said:
Definition of inert-(Chemistry) having only a limited ability to react chemically; unreactive.

Coco is not truly inert because it does react with the nutrient solution, now perlite or rockwool are truly inert because they don't react with the nutrients in a solution, which are true hydroponics. If its not inert then its not a hydro medium, now I'm going by the definition you posted. IDK, maybe I'm wrong in my line of thinking, but why would logic have 'hydroponics' and 'coco coir' in 2 different sub-forums if there the same thing??

What your getting into is the CEC of the media. Coir is inert until being broken down. You MUST feed a coir or predominately coir based substrate period, there is NOTHING that will feed your plants otherwise. Therefore it falls directly under the definition of what all of us growers would consider hydroponic. I believe initially the reason the Coir forum was started was do too the large number of growers who were switching over to coir maybe 5 years back, so we didn't have to comb through threads . Same reason there is a separate Under Current forum.

ooS0uPoo · Oct 8, 2012

Ugh, I really wish some one would have answered the original question. Im in the same boat as the original poster and would have liked the advice as well....

LexLuthor · Oct 8, 2012

Dirty White Boy said:
What your getting into is the CEC of the media. Coir is inert until being broken down. You MUST feed a coir or predominately coir based substrate period, there is NOTHING that will feed your plants otherwise. Therefore it falls directly under the definition of what all of us growers would consider hydroponic. I believe initially the reason the Coir forum was started was do too the large number of growers who were switching over to coir maybe 5 years back, so we didn't have to comb through threads . Same reason there is a separate Under Current forum.

Like I said, maybe I'm wrong in the way I think, but IMO hydro is when you feed the roots directly without any media interferance, basically its just there to hold the plant in place and/or retain moisture. Hydro is not based on whether you have to feed the substrate or not, if thats the case then I can use 100% sphagnum peat moss and say I'm growing hydro. I don't know what makes you think hydro is when you have to feed the substrate because there are plenty of potting mixes that have no nutrients and must be fed constantly, that does not make it hydro and I would love to meet "all of us growers" who believe that. A soil-based media contains compost, which contains bacteria and fungi, if there is no compost then its considered soilless. Coco is a soilless substrate just like sphagnum peat moss, but that does not make it hydro. Hydroponics is when you grow plants in water, hence hydro, and you use an inert media i.e. rockwool, perlite, hydroton to retain moisture and give the roots a substrate to grow through and hold in place. Coco is a soilless media, but like I said before sphagnum peat moss is also a soilless substrate and that does not make it hydroponics.

I believe coco coir is in a class of its own, technically its an organic substrate because it is basically coconut husks, its considered to be soilless but its not full-on hydro like rockwool on an ebb n' flo table because it does not meet the criteria to be true hydroponics. The reason it is not true hydroponics is because of what I stated above and also it has too much of a reaction with nutrients which makes it more similar to a soilless substrate like sphagnum peat moss instead of rockwool or hydroton.

Again, I could be wrong and I will always admit if I make a mistake, but I still have not seen anything in this thread that makes me second guess my opinion. If anybody agree's or disagree's with me then let me know, but please give some facts to back up your claim.

LexLuthor · Oct 8, 2012

ooS0uPoo said:
Ugh, I really wish some one would have answered the original question. Im in the same boat as the original poster and would have liked the advice as well....

I believe the original question was "what hydro system would you recommend for a first timer". If you read over the 1st page alot of people gave there opinions like, DWC, perlite hempy's and coco just to name a few of what some people said. If you want to learn more about every individual hydro system you should do some research and you will see there are 6 basic hydroponic systems. Here they are: wick system, water culture, ebb n' flow, drip system, NFT (nutrient film technique) and aeroponics. IMO the easiest and least expensive would be to use perlite hempy's which is classified as a wick system, you can get a bag of perlite at Lowe's or Wal-Mart for $4 and thats plenty of perlite to grow around 5 plants or so. I don't have alot of experience with other systems but you can do your own research and you will find everything you need to know online. I actually have a thread on here about hempy buckets and you should check it out with the search feature because I posted a great tutorial I found on a different site about hempy's. My 1st time using hempy's I flowered 5 clones when they were only 6" tall in 1 qt. cups and I got 2 oz. dry weight. Thats alot of bud considering the size of the buckets and how small they were when I flipped them to 12/12.

purpleberry · Oct 9, 2012

I think its going to make difference also in how you use the coco.
If i use 7gal pots and water the coco every other day with organics i wouldnt call that hydro, Im delievering the nutes to the media. If i use tables with 2 gal smart pots and flood and drain 4 times a day with hydro nutes, Id call that hydro for sure.

sm0ke_dawg · Oct 16, 2012

My first grow I used DWC. Was pretty Damn easy, but now I mainly grow in soil cuz it is more KISS and temp issues crop up in the summer. either Hempys or DWC I would say is the easiest for a first time hydro person. If you have the money your going to need a PH and a PPM meter as it will make life a little more easy. I run Floranova in DWC buckets and Tubs using calmag, pro tekt silica and a few other additives. But you could get away using less for sure.

Tank333 · Nov 13, 2012

Jesus! You two are arguing in circles!

IMHO, there are two MAIN types of growing: Soil or Hydro. EVERYTHING ELSE falls UNDERNEATH those two categories. Coco, hempy's, DWC, Flo-Gro, Flood/drain, UC, aero, they're ALL forms of hydroponic growing.The defining factor between the two falls on where the emphasis is. In soil, that's all there is to it: SOIL. In hydro, there's no soil\dirt\compost\what-have-you, and therefore it's HYDRO (or water) based! The only time your medium defines what type of growing you're doing is when you're growing in SOIL!

That being said, DWC is pretty simple. It gets tough to change buckets towards the end though. You've got a large, top-heavy plant on top of the bucket lid you're trying pick up, along with roots hanging down from it... I like my Flo-n-Gro, honestly. I fill the rez once a week and adjust the PH daily. Other than that, it's pretty much the same amount of work as soil (at least when it comes to training the plants).

Georgekush22 · Nov 17, 2012

Classic Remix said:
o_O huh??????

growing in soil will always be better IMHO. taste is 1000x better ALWAYS, i feel its a little heartier, fuck the yield. be concerned about the quality.

and that car analogy was just retarded. its a super biased ridiculous opinion.

I like my cars fast too, and that is exactly why i'll always stick to SOIL.

what you are explaining, is you always like your cars BIG, like a fucking bus, regardless of speed.

assuming speed = (dankness of herb x yield) + taste

Dude opinions are like assholes everyones everyones got em. With that being said, I started out as a soil grower and I would have to say that when I actually started running hydro my thoughts on this argument completely changed. My whole take on it is that I feel that I could put a nugget of hydro in front of you that was run out in my regimen and you would not be able to tell me if it were soil or hydro. Just sayin.....:rolleyes:

Classic Remix · Nov 17, 2012

I bet you I could.

Jalisco Kid · Nov 17, 2012

Classic Remix said:
I bet you I could.

I have seen a lot of people lose that bet when handed my herb.
Growing has to match your personality. I like challenges or I get bored so I like aero. For me soil is butt hard to learn or it takes many cycles to dial in. Nutes break down slowly in soil and I never know what exactly they are feeding on. In growth I see no difference in flowering, But my plants are much bigger in veg with my systems(swc,dcw,aero, rdwc) then any soil grow I have seen. I prefer a well made sys with backups so it is a joy to walk in rather then going to work.
I have one question though, why would someone take the time to master soil, when you want to go hydro. Suerte JK

midwestdensies · Nov 17, 2012

Jalisco Kid said:
I have seen a lot of people lose that bet when handed my herb.
Growing has to match your personality. I like challenges or I get bored so I like aero. For me soil is butt hard to learn or it takes many cycles to dial in. Nutes break down slowly in soil and I never know what exactly they are feeding on. In growth I see no difference in flowering, But my plants are much bigger in veg with my systems(swc,dcw,aero, rdwc) then any soil grow I have seen. I prefer a well made sys with backups so it is a joy to walk in rather then going to work.
I have one question though, why would someone take the time to master soil, when you want to go hydro. Suerte JK

Very good point. IMO a couple of meters and some reading isnt hard as any person making any small investment should do some research. Jr peters, cal nit, epsom at 80% 3 2 1 is damn easy and alot cheaper than many things people do.

Real hard to tell soil and hydro nugs if anyone can at all again imo.

My dad learned hydro and hasnt a clue how to put soil in a pot lol and has great results never reading anything but jorge grow bible. It is all in the level the individual wants to take it to none of its rocket science just doit, kill plants, clone more start again. Its going to happen adventually may as well find thresholds. MWD

Georgekush22 · Nov 17, 2012

Classic Remix said:
I bet you I could.

You're on! We will get Pepsi to sponsor it and call it the hydro challenge.

midwestdensies · Nov 17, 2012

I want in on this as I grow all methods currently with the same strains in same environment. So if harvest is on point with my luck/skill blind taste tests all around.

Classic Remix · Nov 17, 2012

Just my opinion. Simple as that

Thinking of going hydro

Thinking of going hydro

OGONLY

LexLuthor

LexLuthor

GR33NL3AF

squiggly

Classic Remix

Dirty White Boy

ooS0uPoo

LexLuthor

LexLuthor

purpleberry

sm0ke_dawg

Tank333

Georgekush22

Classic Remix

Jalisco Kid

Guest

midwestdensies

Georgekush22

midwestdensies

Classic Remix

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