Tips for keeping small mothers - soil or coco etc ?

Andy · Apr 3, 2020

Hi all,

I've been growing for a good while, but have always just taken cuttings from the previous grow for the next grow. I'm starting a couple of new strains and want to start keeping mothers long term so the strain doesn't lose it's vigour over the years like my last one did.

I only have a small space to keep my mothers (75cmx75cm tent), so I'm thinking of having, say, 4 small mums in there - maybe 2 of one strain and 2 of another. I'll need to be able to take 24 cuttings from these 4 plants for each grow.

my questions are:

1 - What sized pot should I use to keep the plants small enough to fit 4 of them in a 75cm x 75cm tent?

2 - Should I use soil of coco, considering that I want to keep these mothers for a few years.

3 - Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the mums small?

ludacris · Apr 3, 2020

Do a google search for bonsai moms or even the forums here

Andy · Apr 3, 2020

Cheers, I’ve had a look - as you say, some good info out there. I’d be interested in what people have to say about soil vs coco though.

dire wolf · Apr 3, 2020

Soil or perlite & promix , they retain moisture , you want to get to the point where you can water every 3 or 4 days , otherwise long term moms become a headache

ezenzyme · Apr 3, 2020

No way you cut it, long term moms are a pain in the. At a certain point they lose vigor, and i would recommend only using a seed plant as a mom not a cutting. That being said using fabric pots that have the bottom exposed air prunes the roots and helps a lot(put em on a milk crate) defiantly bonsai moms are your jam. Also on the other hand if you can find a stable genetic that throws your pheno 90% of the time, it would defiantly be wise to just do a seed run and get a bunch for subsequent moms...

dire wolf · Apr 3, 2020

ezenzyme said:
No way you cut it, long term moms are a pain in the. At a certain point they lose vigor, and i would recommend only using a seed plant as a mom not a cutting. That being said using fabric pots that have the bottom exposed air prunes the roots and helps a lot(put em on a milk crate) defiantly bonsai moms are your jam. Also on the other hand if you can find a stable genetic that throws your pheno 90% of the time, it would defiantly be wise to just do a seed run and get a bunch for subsequent moms...

I've been keeping clones for 25 years , with no loss of vigor , take it for what its worth , respectufully disagree....

DreamsOfDiesel · Apr 3, 2020

dire wolf said:
I've been keeping clones for 25 years , with no loss of vigor , take it for what its worth , respectufully disagree....

I have to agree, as long as you have good genetics & proper treatment the mothers will last years, all these new "improved" kinds havent impressed me & I dont know what their staying power is on long term moms but if you find a good old kind then keep it because moms do well

Formallyhap · Apr 4, 2020

I always flowered my moms every couple of years because I believed that myth.
I have seen no evidence of it being true, but I do like growing trees so I kept doing it.

Andy · Apr 4, 2020

dire wolf said:
Soil or perlite & promix , they retain moisture , you want to get to the point where you can water every 3 or 4 days , otherwise long term moms become a headache

Perfect, thanks - I'll go with soil.

ezenzyme said:
i would recommend only using a seed plant as a mom not a cutting..

Interesting, why would a seed plant be better as a mother? I've heard this before, but never understood the reason.

ezenzyme said:
That being said using fabric pots that have the bottom exposed air prunes the roots and helps a lot(put em on a milk crate) defiantly bonsai moms are your jam.

Cheers - what do the fabric pots do that make them better for mums?

ezenzyme · Apr 4, 2020

Andy said:
Perfect, thanks - I'll go with soil.

Interesting, why would a seed plant be better as a mother? I've heard this before, but never understood the reason.
i know for sure from experience that 2ed and 3ed and 4th gen are not even close to as vigorous as 1st gen or seed plants. i dont know exactly why, but on the whole long term mother thingy, the mom passes everything to the clone, whatever minimal problems the mom has the clones will definitely have.

Cheers - what do the fabric pots do that make them better for mums?

they air prune the roots

dire wolf said:
Hey ezenzyme , thanks for the thumbs up , who knows maybe some strains dont do well long term , maybe some do .....
So everybodys experiences can vary...

You are very right, the thing is that cannabis "science" the vast majority is backyard and homegrown. recently i have been using rholdales guide....i know that about 50% of my strains will not clone well at all and will do terrible in any hydro or DWC mainly the sativas... but my genes have been bread outdoor for generations. that being said if it works for you, then work it!!! but making seeds is a guarantee for successful generations for a lifetime

Andy · Apr 4, 2020

ezenzyme said:
they air prune the roots

How does that make them better for long time mums? Not being rude, just trying to understand..

DreamsOfDiesel · Apr 4, 2020

Andy said:
How does that make them better for long time mums? Not being rude, just trying to understand..

The air pots help them from becoming rootbound while keeping them longterm

Kampbe1l · Apr 4, 2020

Andy said:
Hi all,

1 - What sized pot should I use to keep the plants small enough to fit 4 of them in a 75cm x 75cm tent?

you could fit four 5-gallon pots - judging from that i have four 3-gallon fabric pots in my 60 cm x 60 cm tent.

you'd be able to have five 3-gal pots.

Andy · Apr 4, 2020

DreamsOfDiesel said:
The air pots help them from becoming rootbound while keeping them longterm

Ahh OK thanks. The info I've see so far shows people growing mums in normal containers & every once in a while cutting the outer parts of the root ball off & repotting with new soil. Does using fabric pots (or air pots) negate the need to do this?

Kampbe1l said:
you could fit four 5-gallon pots - judging from that i have four 3-gallon fabric pots in my 60 cm x 60 cm tent.

you'd be able to have five 3-gal pots.

Forgive my ignorance - I was under the impression that it's better to use small pots if I want to keep the plants small - am I wrong here?

WankirA · Apr 4, 2020

Hey @Andy, i have a perpuetual so do much the same as you and clone from mothers, i have my main strains in 4 1gal airpots with coco/ pearlite (70/30).
I find a simple controlled feed once a day allows me to worry less than having soil.
Although, note you keep two of same strain, is that simply to get the nbr of clones you require? In my 1 gals I can get about 20 at a time but i also get to keep 4 strains.
Appreciatethatapars small but hat is all thats needed if you just want a clone mother.

Btw lots of people look afer the tops with bonsais but forget about root pruning...
Very important to keep that 'vigour'.

Andy · Apr 4, 2020

WankirA said:
I find a simple controlled feed once a day allows me to worry less than having soil.

Thanks for the input - this actually appeals to me much more than using soil. A resevoir plus automatic feed setup (drippers, say) is what I'm used to. My only worry with this is that the plants would grow pretty fast - how do you manage the growth? I have a pretty small space for mothers (75cm x 75cm x 100cm), so have to keep them small.

EDIT: I'm finding people advising people not to use coco for mums as it locks out nitrogen after a while. Do you find this not to be the case?

Andy · Apr 4, 2020

(Sorry - please ignore that edit from the above post - I already asked this and apparently coco is fine)

Kampbe1l · Apr 4, 2020

i was saying before 75 x 75 cm is large enough for 4 motherplants - then i see its 100 cm H.

you could train these mother to promote plenty offshoots, to take cuttings - cuttings itself will make the plant short & bushy. i suppose you cut down the roots, when mothers gets larger. Generally, cut down on the feed, to keep growth slower.

what lights are you running for these motherplants? T5s?

you said 24 cuttings from 4 plants - in regular 8 weeks intervals?

Andy · Apr 4, 2020

It’d be 12 week intervals. Ideally I’d like to be able to take 24 cuttings from 2 plants, but I don’t know if that’s possible in that timeframe. I could actially take a bit more height, say 130cm. After a bit of consideration, I think I’m going to go with soil for the slow growth rate. I agree that I’ll need to train to account for the limited height. Please correct me if I’m getting things wrong here.

Lighting was going to be my next question - I’ve used a 250w CFL before but I’m thinking I should use less light if I want slow growth - but wouldn’t too little light produce stretching and weak plants?

Kampbe1l · Apr 5, 2020

12 weeks is ample time to get it bushy, between those intervals. confident you'll get that 6 cuttings per plant, not sure as you, about whether you can get 12 cuttings per plant - so again, you're spot on or thereabouts.

each to their own, with growing mediums - IMO, soil is a good choice.

yes, you will need to address those issues with lighting. you got choice between T5 flourescents to MH or CMH with LEDs/COB in between. Many trade-offs, costs, running costs, heat, etc. to consider.

Tips for keeping small mothers - soil or coco etc ?

Tips for keeping small mothers - soil or coco etc ?

Andy

ludacris

Andy

dire wolf

ezenzyme

dire wolf

DreamsOfDiesel

Formallyhap

Andy

ezenzyme

Andy

DreamsOfDiesel

Kampbe1l

Andy

WankirA

Andy

Andy

Kampbe1l

Andy

Kampbe1l

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency