Timbo0716 said:

At the moment I have 5 photo period plants that have been vegging for 21 days. They are in 2 gallon plastic pots with Happy Frog. I have auto plants in flower at the moment, then these girls will move in. I will be moving them in the SIP buckets once they move into flower rooms. I normally grow more plants than this, but from the growth I am seeing with the auto plants decided to cut down on the number. I posted some comments on another thread and received a lot of questions.

I can understand people being curious and saying it can't work, I felt the same way. So lets see what happens together. For those like @Aqua Man and @Dr.Green55 can view the pictures of the grow. I will post pictures and try to give what ever information they want as I grow and they can explain what is happening. I do not claim to be a know it all, I just know this works as you will see. I have auto plants that are the size of photo period plants in this type of grow style, which was just to give a try. Loving what I see and what is coming to harvest.

The SIP bucket will be 5 gallon with a salad bowl as res.

Click to expand...

Good to see you started a diary. Just for the record nobody said it cant work. Your claim was its the best method and the growth is faster than coco/hydro etc.

Its pretty well know this method works but also has challenges and disadvantages that are easily remedied by top watering instead.

None the less this works for you and thats great so if your happy with it then you should not change anything. Maybe there are others who will feel the same way or want to try it also so either way its a benefit for ppl to see

Is the stick in the tube like a dip stick to know when to water?
I see no mention of how you know when you need water added.
I agree with with the top watering. Gains you back like 30% of your soil and the nutes in that area of soil.
I would look for a taller bucket then 5g as the strainer bowl will raise your perched water table reducing true soil use in the bottom also.
The system looks like it can work well to me but I would tweak it with limited knowledge.
I'm in to see how you do.

Aqua Man said:

Good to see you started a diary. Just for the record nobody said it cant work. Your claim was its the best method and the growth is faster than coco/hydro etc.

Its pretty well know this method works but also has challenges and disadvantages that are easily remedied by top watering instead.

None the less this works for you and thats great so if your happy with it then you should not change anything. Maybe there are others who will feel the same way or want to try it also so either way its a benefit for ppl to see

Click to expand...

I stated it has growth compared to coco/hydro. Growth is fast and s top water now and then is perfect. I have done my homework and getting ready to harvest some autos.

Giving it a try outdoors with some tomatoes.

This is some information I read about this style of growing.

*** DIY SIP Designs ***

For those interested in building their own SIP to experiment with I thought I'd offer some simple design options. Keep in mind there are several different ways to build these things and I've tried a few and they all seem to produce about the same end result: great plants.

There are a few simple design principles that all of the various designs share, and essentially those are soil above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between, and typically a fill tube to allow you to by-pass the soil to fill the reservoir. How those things are accomplished is up to the builder. I make the air gap/water reservoir by establishing a void in the bottom of the container that soil is packed densely around which forms the wicking mechanism to kept the rest of the soil in the pot constantly moist, but on a bit of a gradient, wetter at the bottom, less so as you move up the pot. This is similar to what is found in nature since water drops in the soil due to gravity so there is usually more water the deeper you go.

I've built them in various sizes ranging from Solo Cups, to 1L take-out containers, to 2 and 5 Gallon (8 and 20L) buckets and up to 17 gallon (65L) tubs. Here's how I do them:


Solo Cups
This version is a bit of a compromise since creating the void is hard to do with such a small container so it's built a bit differently than the others.

For this size I make a small hole with a soldering iron or drill bit about 1 inch/25mm up the side from the bottom of the cup.

Then I put either small hydroton clay balls or perlite/pumice in the bottom up to a level about 1.75"/45mm and then top with soil. Since the hydroton/perlite layer is higher than the overflow hole, there is a bit of an air gap satisfying the design requirement. There is not as much air as in the other design options, but as I said, this one is a bit of a compromise.

Given the lack of real estate to work with I don't even bother with a fill tube, but rather water by sitting the solo cup in a slightly larger tub of water to fill the reservoir from below through the overflow hole. I usually put a second hole slightly above the overflow hole which seems to assist with filling the reservoir more quickly by allowing a vent for the air being displaced by the increasing water level.

That's it. If you use clear cups you'll be able to see the roots develop but be sure to slide it into an opaque cover cup since the roots won't develop as well if exposed to light.


1L Take-out Container
This is probably the smallest size I would take to flower but is large enough for a respectable harvest (relatively speaking).

For this one you'll need two containers. The first is the 1L container and the second is some sort of small food grade plastice cup/container where the diameter of the rim is slightly smaller than the bottom of the 1L container. I use small single serving applesause containers that fit perfectly. This will make the reservoir void by making a bunch of small holes in it and placing it upside down in the bottom of the 1L container.

I make an overflow hole in the 1L container about 1 inch/25mm up from the bottom but make sure it is at least 1/2"/12mm below the height of the cup that makes up the void to ensure I have an air gap. Up to double that amount is preferable.

Then I make a bunch of small holes in the smaller container (I use a soldering iron) and place it upside down in the 1L container. Put your soil mix in so that it surrounds the inner cup but try to leave a void between it and the overflow hole to help with air flow. I've built this size both with and without a fill tube so that's a preference decision.

Be sure to pack the soil around the inner cup firmly to help with the wicking process, but fill the rest of the container with soil firmed like you would for a normal pot.


2 Gallon/8L or 5 Gallon/20L Buckets
Same basic design as the 1L version, just larger containers. I get my buckets from Lowes in the States because they are a deep, dark blue which helps shade the roots from light better than lighter or white colored ones.

For the container that creates the void I've used food grade plastic food containers like salad bowls or food storage containers as well as pasta strainers. Same rules here, try to find a container where the upper rim is slightly smaller than the lower width of your bucket.

I do use fill tubes for these so first I make a larger hole in the bottom of the inner container (which will be on top when we flip it to install it) that is slightly larger than my fill tube. I use the white PVC plumbing pipe (1/2"/12mm) and make my hole with a 7/8"/22mm hole saw which is the outer diameter of the pipe.

I actually make two holes, one each on opposite sides of this inner container. Then I use two fill tubes with the idea that there will be a better chance at air flow with this set-up than there would be with a single entry to a cave-like void you'd get with a single fill tube. No science to back this, I just feel like it is a better design.

I also like to have my fill tube stop just after entering the void to ensure air flow even when the reservoir is full so I cut off a small stub piece from the fill tube and attach it back with a coupler which holds it up when installed since the coupler is a larger diameter than the pipe and won't fit through my hole. ResDog has his fill tubes bottom out in the reservoir but makes holes all along its length to accomplish the same thing.

Then I make my overflow hole in the outer bucket making sure it is at leat 1"/25mm below the top of my void container for the air gap, and then make a bunch of small holes in the inner container to try to maximize air and water flow from this inner cup into the surrounding soil. I also make holes on the bottom (what will be the top) of the inner cup to get air to the roots once planted.

Then fill the pot with your soil mix and be sure to pack the soil around the inner cup firmly to help with the wicking process, but fill the rest of the container with soil firmed like you would for a normal pot.

I use a funnel I cut from the top of a water bottle to make pouring water into the fill tube a bit easier. I use a plumbing fitting (called a bushing) to attach a 1" coupling to the 1/2"pipe and the neck of the bottle slides into it nicely. I'm right handed so I like to position the fill tube just to the right of my overflow hole. This makes it easier to watch for run-off as I'm filling the reservoir than it would if it were on the oppositie side of the bucket.


17G/20L Plastic Tub
This design is a bit different from the buckets. The tubs I used for my outdoor vegetable garden are rectangular and I use perforated landscaping drainage pipe layed flat to make the reservoir/air gap. I used 3 sections of 4"/100mm pipe that fit perfectly laid side-by-side but 2 sections of 6"/150mm pipe would work just as well and give you a larger reservoir.

I capped the pipes off with the cover that came with my 1L containers to keep soil out of the pipes. I cut the cover slightly so it would snap between the ribs of the drainage pipe. Then I made my overflow hole about 1"/25mm below the top of the pipe.

Next I installed a 1"/25mm fill tube by cutting a hole in one of the pipe sections and then filled around the pipes with my soil mix being sure to pack it well around the pipes to ensure good wicking. The rest of the tub was filled with my mix firmed like I normally do.

-Or- If using cloth pots, you can simply lay them on the soil that covers the pipes. I'd probably put a good inch or two of soil over the pipes to account for any settling, although there shouldn't be much of that if you've packed it well.


*******

So, that's about it. pretty simple but very effective.

Another example of a bucket setup to grow.

Timbo0716 said:

Another example of a bucket setup to grow.

Click to expand...

Would this set up work if you don't have access to good quality soil or perlite... Meaning if you have to use regular soil that's a little sandy and tends to compress.. I'll post the soil, I'm wondering because I'm new to growing and I'm having issues with the soil and air gaps right now...


So to formulate my question better...

Would this technique help with my aeration and watering problems taking into account that Im obligated to keep using this soil...

Zerberus said:

Would this set up work if you don't have access to good quality soil or perlite... Meaning if you have to use regular soil that's a little sandy and tends to compress.. I'll post the soil, I'm wondering because I'm new to growing and I'm having issues with the soil and air gaps right now...


So to formulate my question better...

Would this technique help with my aeration and watering problems taking into account that Im obligated to keep using this soil...
View attachment 1344676

Click to expand...

The only thing I could think of is maybe if you tried some crushed up Styrofoam. It can act as perlite and give you better airgaps in your dirt.

steamroller said:

Is the stick in the tube like a dip stick to know when to water?
I see no mention of how you know when you need water added.
I agree with with the top watering. Gains you back like 30% of your soil and the nutes in that area of soil.
I would look for a taller bucket then 5g as the strainer bowl will raise your perched water table reducing true soil use in the bottom also.
The system looks like it can work well to me but I would tweak it with limited knowledge.
I'm in to see how you do.

Click to expand...

Yes the stick gives me the level in the res.

Or you can buy an insert for a bucket.
Use your imagination, one could also make a false floor that can be moved up or down. Instead of putting potting soil in it, you can drop a grow bag in it and let it take off from there.

Is this like hempy?

Habosabin said:

Is this like hempy?

Click to expand...

Sorry, I have never grown the hempy style. Maybe ask or search on the site for it.

When your bucket starts to work properly the soil will stay moist thru out the potting mix. If I was constantly top watering like this they would have died for sure.

She is an autoflower planted in a 3 gallon pot sitting on top of a bucket of perlite.

Habosabin said:

Is this like hempy?

Click to expand...

Close but hempy is top watered while SIP has water poured thru the fill tube until it flows out the hole several inches above the bottom of the container so it cannot become a swampy bog.

Zerberus said:

Would this set up work if you don't have access to good quality soil or perlite... Meaning if you have to use regular soil that's a little sandy and tends to compress.. I'll post the soil, I'm wondering because I'm new to growing and I'm having issues with the soil and air gaps right now...


So to formulate my question better...

Would this technique help with my aeration and watering problems taking into account that Im obligated to keep using this soil...
View attachment 1344676

Click to expand...

It's best to avoid any soil that has rocks, clay, sand, topsoil, and composted forest byproducts.
A good mix to use would be 70-95% sphagnum peat moss and perlite then add in a dry nute blend with a balanced NPK of around 5-5-5 or 7-7-7.
One good store bought blend would be Fox Farm Happy Frog soil and Happy Frog All Purpose or Fruit & Veggie fertilizer but there's similar and less expensive options like Lamberts, Epsoma, and even Miracle Grow seed starting mix.
FF Ocean Forest would be an ill choice since it's sand based and MG soil is all composted bark so it's a bad choice too. Also avoid anything with water retention or moisture control and any ferts that are time release.

Timbo0716 said:

Or you can buy an insert for a bucket.View attachment 1345027
Use your imagination, one could also make a false floor that can be moved up or down. Instead of putting potting soil in it, you can drop a grow bag in it and let it take off from there.

Click to expand...

I use Earthboxes outdoors for my veggies. This year I plan to add an autowatering system fed by a 15 gallon tank. I also plan on making a SIP for tomatoes similar to your diagram but will be making it on a 3D printer.
But here's my outdoor Earthboxes elevated on an old ebb & flow tray stand. This year instead of tomatoes it will be peppers and cucumbers and probably 6-8 tubs instead of just three

AnimalHouse said:

I use Earthboxes outdoors for my veggies. This year I plan to add an autowatering system fed by a 15 gallon tank. I also plan on making a SIP for tomatoes similar to your diagram but will be making it on a 3D printer.
But here's my outdoor Earthboxes elevated on an old ebb & flow tray stand. This year instead of tomatoes it will be peppers and cucumbers and probably 6-8 tubs instead of just three

Click to expand...

That's awesome, yea at the moment testing a couple of tomato plants out doors in sip buckets.

Glad to have @AnimalHouse chime in with knowledge of Earthboxes and sip