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Trying to understand PPM versus EC and how to adjust

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Trying to understand PPM versus EC and how to adjust

phxazcraig Feb 2, 2022 35 Replies 15,647 Views
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phxazcraig

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#1
Just a month into my first crop with coco and fertigation, and I'm trying to understand the water chemistry better.

One specific question I have is in regards to a feeding chart (Fox Farms hydro chart in this case) that lists desired PPM and EC limits. Doesn't matter what they are in this question.

My chart says PPM in week three should be up to about 1050-1190 ppm, and an EC between 1.5 and 1.7. I'm assuming these are maximum limits.

My question is "Do I adjust to the limit of EC, or PPM, or whichever is higher?" My EC is much higher than PPM. That is, when I finish mixing my nutes I have an EC under 900, but EC at 1.9.

I'm assuming I ignore the PPM reading, and add RO water until I get the EC down to the upper target limit of 1.7.

Here's what I'm doing.

OK, so I start with 10 gallons of RO water, PPM 20 or less. I add my Silica and wait an hour, then cal/mag. I add 2.5ml/gallon, as directed. I note that PPM jumps to 300 at this point.

Next I add my nutes, which for now are Big Bloom and Grow Big Hydro. After the Grow Big, my PPM hits 800 or so and my EC skyrockets to around 1.9 And my pH drops like a stone to about 4.6. I don't think the remaining chemicals change the PPM or EC much.

Next, a dose of Humic Acid (Diamond Nectar), and a sprinkle of Yucca Powder.

At this point my pH is very low and I add some pH UP to bring it up to 6.0 or 6.1. (Once I dump it in the reservoir a Bluelab controller keeps the pH down to 6.0.)

It is at this point that I adjust the EC by adding a gallon or so of RO water. EC drops from 1.9 to 1.7, and PPM goes down to 860 or so. That gives me another 200-300 ppm to play with, but no EC room.
 
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#2

EC to PPM Conversion Chart

EC to PPM Conversion Chart by Perfect Grower
www.perfectgrower.com
 
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#3
PH and EC are pretty much the same thing in simple terms. Sounds like youre doing it right. And usually those suggested numbers for PPM/EC are just average every strain is different its up to you to adjust the feed to their needs.
 
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#4
.5 EC is equal to 250ppm. So .1 EC is 50 ppm
 
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phxazcraig

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#5
2Bad said:
.5 EC is equal to 250ppm. So .1 EC is 50 ppm
Click to expand...
Except it's not, for me. Look at the readings I posted. PPM at 800, but EC much higher than 1.6. I'm not seeing a direct conversion here. I typically hit an EC limit well below the PPM limits (on the FoxFarm chart, which gives recommended ranges for each week(.
 
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#6
phxazcraig said:
Except it's not, for me. Look at the readings I posted. PPM at 800, but EC much higher than 1.6. I'm not seeing a direct conversion here. I typically hit an EC limit well below the PPM limits (on the FoxFarm chart, which gives recommended ranges for each week(.
Click to expand...
What type of meter? brand?
 
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growsince79

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#7
phxazcraig said:
Except it's not, for me. Look at the readings I posted. PPM at 800, but EC much higher than 1.6. I'm not seeing a direct conversion here. I typically hit an EC limit well below the PPM limits (on the FoxFarm chart, which gives recommended ranges for each week(.
Click to expand...
Different meters are on different scales. Most ppm pens around here are on a 500 scale. The chart you are looking at is on a 700 scale.
 
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#8
growsince79 said:
Different meters are on different scales. Most ppm pens around here are on a 500 scale. The chart you are looking at is on a 700 scale.
Click to expand...
Thanks @growsince79 I was never gonna get that lmao I was feeling out of my element
 
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phxazcraig

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#9
2Bad said:
growsince79 said:
Different meters are on different scales. Most ppm pens around here are on a 500 scale. The chart you are looking at is on a 700 scale.
Click to expand...

Well, that explains it! But it means PPM needs to be stated along with the conversion factor to have any meaning. I'll be going by the EC reading. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
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tobh

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#10
the shitty thing with the cheap meters it they don't tell you the scale they operate on. it's safest to assume they're on the 500 (Hanna) scale, but if they're operating on the Truncheon or whatever tf the other one is, then your readings will forever be off. IMO go off what the plants are telling you once you figure out what each part of your nutrient regimen does to the solution. The girls won't hesitate to tell you when they're pissed off or happy. Increase feed until you see slight tip burn then back off a hair and keep on keepin on.
 
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phxazcraig

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#11
tobh said:
the shitty thing with the cheap meters it they don't tell you the scale they operate on. it's safest to assume they're on the 500 (Hanna) scale, but if they're operating on the Truncheon or whatever tf the other one is, then your readings will forever be off. IMO go off what the plants are telling you once you figure out what each part of your nutrient regimen does to the solution. The girls won't hesitate to tell you when they're pissed off or happy. Increase feed until you see slight tip burn then back off a hair and keep on keepin on.
Click to expand...
So you're basically saying to ignore readings, let something go wrong, then diagnose my plants and take corrective action? My readings aren't off, they are just on a different scale, like bass clef versus treble clef in music. The more relevant approach would be to find out what scale the charts are using, or simply ignore PPM and use EC.
 
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growsince79

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#12
phxazcraig said:
So you're basically saying to ignore readings, let something go wrong, then diagnose my plants and take corrective action? My readings aren't off, they are just on a different scale, like bass clef versus treble clef in music. The more relevant approach would be to find out what scale the charts are using, or simply ignore PPM and use EC.
Click to expand...
Correct. Use ec for a general guide. Some plants grow perfect at 1.2 others might need 2.0. You just have to find the sweet spot.
 
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Ph 007

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#13
Use ppm 500 scale it's nice round numbers

If using 500 scale
Then
100ppm = 0.2e.c
200ppm = 0.4e.c
300ppm = 0.6e.c
400ppm = 0.8e.c
500ppm = 1.0e.c
I remebr by sorta doubling the ppm lol, If I see 500ppm i say 5+5 =1.0e.c if get me me lol

On a 700ppm scale I think
0.2e.c = 280ppm just not a round number head work
But
on 500ppm scale
0.2e.c = 100 ppm much easie
 
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Ph 007

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#14
phxazcraig said:
Just a month into my first crop with coco and fertigation, and I'm trying to understand the water chemistry better.

One specific question I have is in regards to a feeding chart (Fox Farms hydro chart in this case) that lists desired PPM and EC limits. Doesn't matter what they are in this question.

My chart says PPM in week three should be up to about 1050-1190 ppm, and an EC between 1.5 and 1.7. I'm assuming these are maximum limits.

My question is "Do I adjust to the limit of EC, or PPM, or whichever is higher?" My EC is much higher than PPM. That is, when I finish mixing my nutes I have an EC under 900, but EC at 1.9.

I'm assuming I ignore the PPM reading, and add RO water until I get the EC down to the upper target limit of 1.7.

Here's what I'm doing.

OK, so I start with 10 gallons of RO water, PPM 20 or less. I add my Silica and wait an hour, then cal/mag. I add 2.5ml/gallon, as directed. I note that PPM jumps to 300 at this point.

Next I add my nutes, which for now are Big Bloom and Grow Big Hydro. After the Grow Big, my PPM hits 800 or so and my EC skyrockets to around 1.9 And my pH drops like a stone to about 4.6. I don't think the remaining chemicals change the PPM or EC much.

Next, a dose of Humic Acid (Diamond Nectar), and a sprinkle of Yucca Powder.

At this point my pH is very low and I add some pH UP to bring it up to 6.0 or 6.1. (Once I dump it in the reservoir a Bluelab controller keeps the pH down to 6.0.)

It is at this point that I adjust the EC by adding a gallon or so of RO water. EC drops from 1.9 to 1.7, and PPM goes down to 860 or so. That gives me another 200-300 ppm to play with, but no EC room.
Click to expand...
Not sure what scale you are using, but i would add calmag till your water is 0.4e.c or that's 200ppm on a 500scale, and that's 280ppm on a 700scale

over 0.4e.c starting water with calmag probebly ain't needed I take my tap water to 0.4 e.c with calmag, and my tap water is already 0.1e.c that's about 80-90ppm on a 500scale so I'm only adding about 110ppm of calmag and get no problem, if I don't add this calmag I get loads of issuses
 
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phxazcraig

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#15
The point here is that the CHARTS stating PPM need to state which measurement system is being used. EC is EC, but PPM isn't always PPM. My Foxfarm chart doesn't say which PPM it is, but I see my new GH chart does. I don't know what my meter is set to, but I can guess it's using the 700 scale. It wasn't until this post I even knew there were two scales in use. It seems I have a PPM (700 scale) and a PPM (500 scale) chart.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why my meter is set to 700 to start with, and if it can be reset to 500.
 
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Ph 007

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#16
phxazcraig said:
The point here is that the CHARTS stating PPM need to state which measurement system is being used. EC is EC, but PPM isn't always PPM. My Foxfarm chart doesn't say which PPM it is, but I see my new GH chart does. I don't know what my meter is set to, but I can guess it's using the 700 scale. It wasn't until this post I even knew there were two scales in use. It seems I have a PPM (700 scale) and a PPM (500 scale) chart.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why my meter is set to 700 to start with, and if it can be reset to 500.
Click to expand...
Just go on that your feee chart is 500ppm scale because if it is not then you just giving slight less food then what the that says because 500scale is less than the 700scale so that be safe,
Or
Google the nutrient manufacture and ask them

And I was the same e.c I always used for years, then about 2-3 years ago getting help off this site I learned about ppm and onky last year or so I realised theirs 2 types a of ppm scale lol, stupid really as only 500ppm scale would be all your need and much easier round numbers
Everyone who says ppm on these sites mean 500 scale obviously it a good choice or measurement easy
 
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Ph 007

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#17
What does ppm mean

parts per million

Dam check me out I sound like I know what I'm taking about lol
 
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Ph 007

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#18
Does your meter switch to e.c ?
I guess no because I'm a genius
 
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dbrzz

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#19
You need to know what scale your meter uses. I have 2 PH and TDS testing devices. The problem is when you look at different manufacturers new trend chart recommendations they sometimes don’t tell you what TDS scale they’re using to measure. One scale is half the other scale. What type of runoff meter do you use?
 
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dbrzz

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#20
dbrzz said:
You need to know what scale your meter uses. View attachment 1227853I have 2 PH and TDS testing devices. The problem is when you look at different manufacturers new trend chart recommendations they sometimes don’t tell you what TDS scale they’re using to measure. One scale is half the other scale. What type of runoff meter do you use?View attachment 1227853View attachment 1227854
Click to expand...
Feed chart*
 
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Replies 35
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Started Feb 2, 2022
Latest post Jul 18, 2022
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Forum Nutrients and Fertilizers

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